George Pickens

[TambaBerry]

Why isn't this kid being talked about? Injury of course but man when healthy he looks like an explosive receiver who can catch anything thrown his way. Would love to have him but I'm honestly not sure where he should go.

[The Franchise]

Elite? Williams is not Chase, Megatron or Julio Jones. He's not a sure thing like either of those guys and he's not worth blowing multiple picks to go get him.

[kcbubb]

I’m not debating this. Just making the point to look at athletic traits. What kind of wr do we want? No baby deers, please.

[The Franchise]

Pickens isn't really top on my list of WRs that I want in this draft. So don't think I'm arguing for him.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by kccrow

I don't know about that, honestly.

Last year this board when nuts over Terrace Marshall Jr. with a whole bunch of "we're going to have to get him in the 1st" chatter. The two are very similar players. Both are around 6'2"-6'3" 200 pounds, fast, good catch radius, lack some route polish, etc. Where'd Marshall go? 59th overall. I would not assume he's going to go as high as people think.

There's alot of talent on the board between 30 and 50, including some really good safeties and corners that probably eat up 10 of those 20 picks. Then you have a few good edge rushers and offensive lineman sitting out there too. You probably need to factor in Dotson, Moore, and Watson at WR in that range as well.

There's a good chance he's there at 50. I don't think you have to get him at 30. If you're nervous, maybe move up a handful of spots into the 40's. Otherwise, there are other options.

Exactly. I had him avail @ 50 in my "mock" yesterday for these exact reasons.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

Well said. And comparing pickens to Dk isn’t fair either. Dk is thick all over. He’s almost 230 and still runs a 4.33. Pickens isn’t close to Dk. Take a look. I’m looking for athletic traits that show up on film. And watson is unreal. Watson has that short area quickness & top end speed that defies physics.

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/dk-metcalf

Vs

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/george-pickens

Vs

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/christian-watson

I don't know what you look for when you evaluate WR's. I question if you're actually evaluating or if you're reading other people's opinions and then seeking bias confirmation.

I like Watson too, he was one of the first guys i was really in on.

But wait one goddamn second now, that boy has some issues that are concerning to me too. There's some things that Pickens is simply better at than Watson.

And after reading your evaluation of Pickens i gotta say, most of that is simple not true.

I couldn't disagree more with your evaluation of Pickens.

Let me ask you this though, what do YOU think Watson needs to improve on?

[ToxSocks]

Oh, and lastly, i agree with Chris Meck. The route running thing? GMAFB.

If you have quick feet, loose hips your route running will be fine. 2nd most over rated trait in scouting imo, right after collegiate stats.

Add to that a large catch radius, good hands and the tenacity and agressiveness to attack the ball in traffic? Yeah he'll be just fine.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by O.city

I like Pickens. Has nothing to do with him.

Has to do with your "it's just a route tree how can they not learn it".

We aren't the ones being emotional here.

I have no idea what you're going on about.

What I meant is that yeah, it's a route tree. How can they not learn it?

You guys make it sound like Pickens has no idea how to play WR. This is absurd. Is he likely to be a little rawer than some others based on the style of offense he played in and the routes he's run? Sure, maybe. Or maybe not, and there's just not a lot of tape on other things. At any rate, we have one of the best offensive minds in the history of football here in KC. I imagine they can tighten up some sloppy route running. I mean, that's why you have coaches.

But when people act like the guy has no idea how to run a route, that's completely asinine. It's a bunch of people that have read a couple of blurbs and want to spout some bullshit and act like they know what they're talking about.

Trying to make it sound like the guy is a straight line go-route guy and that's it is DUMB.

Some people want to talk themselves into "Jameson Williams is the only real true #1 receiver in this draft and all of the rest are trash".

It's ****ing stupid.

[kccrow]

Route running most definitely matters in the NFL and it matters more than anything else. That doesn't mean because a guy isn't great at it in college that they can't or won't learn it, but it's one more box to check on their way so the learning curve is longer. It's not just learning what the routes are, it's learning how to run them crisply and sell them against the defender. Also, athletic abilities don't mean a guy will just become a good route runner. They need to have the dedication and drive, as with any other player doing any other thing, to get better at it. Not all of them do though, and I'd wager a great many. It wouldn't preclude me from taking a guy, but if two guys are sitting there with fairly identical traits, I'm going to take the better route runner 10 out of 10 times.

That said, there are rarely two identical physical prospects out there but one runs shit routes and the other doesn't. And generally, there are other factors at play too aside from just routes. Athleticism and the ability to catch in traffic are definite factors. All 3 factors came into play last year when I looked at Elijah Moore vs Rondale Moore who were similarly-sized prospects with similar NFL positional outlooks.

Given the overall complexity, you have to slot guys based on the potential of all things. A guy can learn to run more sophisticated and more crisp routes. A guy can develop better hands. Guys can't learn size, speed (limited), or physicality. There's a reason to take Pickens over say, Skyy Moore or Jahan Dotson. While Moore and Dotson have high floors and could be 1k/6TD WRs, they simply lack size, athleticism, and the physical ability to just beat anyone. Pickens has those things, and if he learns to run routes well and stays healthy he will beat anyone and could be a 1500-yds, 15 TD WR that forces the double-team and makes defenses adjust to them.

Pickens is oozing with elite potential and he's not "that" far away from reaching it. A guy like Watson though, he's much, much further away than Pickens. Now you have to start wondering if the investment into getting him there will be worth the return (before he hits FA and is doing it for someone else), if it ever is. That's where I think you take the higher floor guy, when the high ceiling guys start looking like too significant a project to make sense at that draft position.

[mkp785]

No one mentioned that UGA ran a very conservative offense and was run based? They pound the ball and only required their WRs to be good athletes and run go routes. It got them a national chip but didn't help much w/ his development. Still, it doesn't mean that he is unable to run these routes. DK is an beast who can't move like that. Pickens still can. He'd be great at 30, if we're unable to trade up and if he falls to 50?

via MEME

[duncan_idaho]

Keysor’s breakdown of Pickens did point out a lot of positives re: route running. Good change of direction. Understanding of little nuances to work open. Etc.

So I think he’s already better than Georgia’s 1987 usage of him suggests at route running.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Keysor’s breakdown of Pickens did point out a lot of positives re: route running. Good change of direction. Understanding of little nuances to work open. Etc.

So I think he’s already better than Georgia’s 1987 usage of him suggests at route running.

He was a guest on The NFL Exchange pod picking for the Chiefs in their mock draft (just for 29).

He took Pickens.

[kcbubb]

Answering your questions below…. I evaluate wrs based on what I think is a good fit for mahomes. I think mahomes does best when he has wrs with separation. He’s been unlucky with tipped balls and can get in his own head. But mahomes has performed best with wrs that can create separation so that’s the wrs I look for. I evaluate my own guys. My opinions maybe wrong but they are mine. I can be swayed with good arguments. I didn’t like watson at first. Small school, lack of comp, drops, limited routes…. But the more I watched him, he’s got athletic traits that translate to one of the best wrs in the nfl. Will that happen? I don’t know. And to answer your question, pickens has great hands. His drop rate is really low. Pickens also tracks the ball well on deep routes. He also high points the ball well. Watson is more of a question mark in some areas but I’m comfortable with him coming year one and becoming our gadget guy. Watson played rb quite a bit. He’s got speed at every level. His burst and short area quickness are sick as well as his top end speed. Watson shows the athletic ability to get coached up on his route tree. He hasn’t been asked to run very many routes and has tended to round those off. But when you watch him with the ball in his hands, he’s got the feet and athletic ability to get better. He’s a small school guy with elite athletic traits that can be coached up. Until he’s coached up, he can be our gadget guy and get better over time.

Originally Posted by Detoxing

I don't know what you look for when you evaluate WR's. I question if you're actually evaluating or if you're reading other people's opinions and then seeking bias confirmation.

I like Watson too, he was one of the first guys i was really in on.

But wait one goddamn second now, that boy has some issues that are concerning to me too. There's some things that Pickens is simply better at than Watson.

And after reading your evaluation of Pickens i gotta say, most of that is simple not true.

I couldn't disagree more with your evaluation of Pickens.

Let me ask you this though, what do YOU think Watson needs to improve on?

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Keysor’s breakdown of Pickens did point out a lot of positives re: route running. Good change of direction. Understanding of little nuances to work open. Etc.

So I think he’s already better than Georgia’s 1987 usage of him suggests at route running.

But...I read on Chiefsplanet that he had terrible change of direction and couldn't run routes at all. I'm confused.

[Nightfyre]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

But...I read on Chiefsplanet that he had terrible change of direction and couldn't run routes at all. I'm confused.

I do feel George Pickens is criminally underrated around here. He's my WR6 behind Burks.

[farmerchief]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Exactly. I had him avail @ 50 in my "mock" yesterday for these exact reasons.

It has been extremely “rare”, when he has not been available at 50, in all my mock drafts of late. He’s normally the first WR I’ve selected, at that time.