The mystery of our fascination with Outside Zone

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

You son of a bitch, how are you?

Anyway, when you say "cutback" rules do you mean cutblock?

I sent out the Sorter signal; he saw I started a thread and thought "Holy crap, I'll bet this is AWESOME..."

Yeah, I presumed he meant the cut-block rules. Though in some ways it seems like those rules should actually make it easier to run an outside zone given that DBs cant submarine those pulling guards anymore.

I hadn't considered the RPO element of it and yeah, that makes a ton of sense. You want your lineman going slow/sideways in an RPO so you don't end up with an ineligible man downfield penalty if the QB elects to pull the ball.

I wonder if that's not the most obvious explanation. Andy didn't use to favor the OZ like he does but that was before the rise of the RPO - so it seems pretty likely that the run design is more likely to follow the pass design than anything. And since you can't really go out there and run two different styles (because again - reps and time are limited), he's just elected to steer into the skid and find a way to get better at OZ runs rather than feature a gap system and try to maul his way between the tackles.

Still seems like an opportunity missed (especially since I'm not a fan of the RPOs at this point either)...

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I sent out the Sorter signal; he saw I started a thread and thought "Holy crap, I'll bet this is AWESOME..."

Yeah, I presumed he meant the cut-block rules. Though in some ways it seems like those rules should actually make it easier to run an outside zone given that DBs cant submarine those pulling guards anymore.

I hadn't considered the RPO element of it and yeah, that makes a ton of sense. You want your lineman going slow/sideways in an RPO so you don't end up with an ineligible man downfield penalty if the QB elects to pull the ball.

I wonder if that's not the most obvious explanation. Andy didn't use to favor the OZ like he does but that was before the rise of the RPO - so it seems pretty likely that the run design is more likely to follow the pass design than anything. And since you can't really go out there and run two different styles (because again - reps and time are limited), he's just elected to steer into the skid and find a way to get better at OZ runs rather than feature a gap system and try to maul his way between the tackles.

Still seems like an opportunity missed (especially since I'm not a fan of the RPOs at this point either)...

I don't care for the RPO stuff at this point. It just doesn't seem to be what it was a few years back.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

I don't care for the RPO stuff at this point. It just doesn't seem to be what it was a few years back.

And at the risk of castigating St. Patrick, I think he does those RPO reads these days with a wink and a nod.

He treats an RPO read like Jimbo these days:



If he sees ANY excuse at all to pull the ball, he's gonna. And sometimes I think he pulls it when he doesn't see an excuse. He's just so aggressive on those RPO reads.

I'd probably get rid of them, especially now that we don't have Hill to really create a problem on those quick slants. They served their purpose but I think it's probably getting you diminishing returns at this point.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And at the risk of castigating St. Patrick, I think he does those RPO reads these days with a wink and a nod.

He treats an RPO read like Jimbo these days:



If he sees ANY excuse at all to pull the ball, he's gonna. And sometimes I think he pulls it when he doesn't see an excuse. He's just so aggressive on those RPO reads.

I'd probably get rid of them, especially now that we don't have Hill to really create a problem on those quick slants. They served their purpose but I think it's probably getting you diminishing returns at this point.

He never "gives" on them, box count be damned.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

He never "gives" on them, box count be damned.

I think he just engages in a little creative accounting.

"Well you see, I realize that the safety was 20 yards off the LOS but he could have been on a run blitz so I counted him as inside the box. And the corner on the left side had his foot near the hash marks and that's really just 3 good strides away from being near the LB so I counted a 9th in there as well.

I mean it looks like a Nickel formation but really, that was a 9 man box..."

[Sorter]

[QUOTE=DJ's left nut;16482589]I sent out the Sorter signal; he saw I started a thread and thought "Holy crap, I'll bet this is AWESOME..."

Yeah, I presumed he meant the cut-block rules.

Though in some ways it seems like those rules should actually make it easier to run an outside zone given that DBs cant submarine those pulling guards anymore.

Good in theory but most DBs aren't willing to risk taking on blocks like that currently.

I hadn't considered the RPO element of it and yeah, that makes a ton of sense. You want your lineman going slow/sideways in an RPO so you don't end up with an ineligible man downfield penalty if the QB elects to pull the ball.

I wonder if that's not the most obvious explanation. Andy didn't use to favor the OZ like he does but that was before the rise of the RPO - so it seems pretty likely that the run design is more likely to follow the pass design than anything. And since you can't really go out there and run two different styles (because again - reps and time are limited), he's just elected to steer into the skid and find a way to get better at OZ runs rather than feature a gap system and try to maul his way between the tackles.

Still seems like an opportunity missed (especially since I'm not a fan of the RPOs at this point either)...

Regarding your last large paragraph, Andy has always favored ZB because of the big payoffs it used to yield via cutback + the advantages of boot action for PA.

Then you have the cross screen game that they were wicked with in Philly because of people overflowing to the zone run side.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Sorter

Regarding your last large paragraph, Andy has always favored ZB because of the big payoffs it used to yield via cutback + the advantages of boot action for PA.

Then you have the cross screen game that they were wicked with in Philly because of people overflowing to the zone run side.

But when we don't have RBs that can see/make a cutback...