Things I think it's time for:

[Chris Meck]

1. You can't trot Ammendola out again. You just can't. It'd be mutiny. I don't care what you do, you have to cut him and sign someone else. I'd go for two every time and have Reid kick off before I did that again.

2. Justin Watson needs way more snaps. Yes, he could've caught that one ball today, but he's big, he's fast, hes a physical match-up problem, and he usually catches the ball. He was inches away from another big TD today. Play him.

3. It's time to get Pacheco more touches. The midget squad isn't getting it done. It's not all their fault, but at least Pacheco is big and strong enough to maybe break some tackles.

4. It's time to bench Wylie. Wanegho can't be worse, and might have upside. Just do it, for accountability's sake if nothing else.

5. I think it's time to force feed more snaps to Moore. I don't want him returning punts anymore. Put Hardman there, you know what Hardman is, and he's not a route running WR. At least he might break a PR.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I think we sometimes overestimate the difficulty of finding a 2nd/3rd day WR.

Kupp, Godwin, Kirk, Gallup, Sutton, Gage, Chark, AJ Brown, Metcalf, Deebo, McLaurin, Diontae Johnson, Renfrow, Higgins, Pittman, Claypool, Mooney, Gabriel Davis, St. Brown - these are all quality young WRs taken in the 2nd round or later over the last few years.

Give us 2 of those guys and everything is much MUCH different in our WR room.

I don't think you NEED a true #1 to have an excellent passing game. But you need 3 quality WRs if you don't have one and right now I'm not seeing one.

Up to this point Veach has not demonstrated the ability to secure WR talent.

Yeah, whatever, flame me all you want for saying something negative about Veach. But show me the goddamn receipts. It's been miss after miss after miss.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

No, no it's not.

Mahomes was at his PEEK when he had premium talent to throw the ball to. Watch Herbert and Allen and those guys have dudes who make plays for their QB.

At some point Chiefs kingdom convinced themselves that Mahomes has to stay in the pocket. (NOT what made him special). That Mahomes has to play in the structure of the offense. (NOT what made him special). That Mahomes has to be this dink and dunk QB because apparently we're incapable of anything else. (NOT what made him special).

Everyone convinced themselves that if you give Mahomes an army of Albert Wilson's he'll do the rest!

If you're going to spend money on everything but WR then you had better draft well. And well....they haven't draft worth a shit at WR.

First, I would argue Mahomes was at his PEEK when he had a good OL and defenses didn't know how to defend him or the Chiefs offense.

Second, the overwhelming majority of Chiefs fans never convinced themselves that Mahomes needed to stay in the pocket. We all know Mahomes is at his best when he's making plays off platform.

As for the idea that Chiefs fans all thought Mahomes could make Albert Wilson into Jerry Rice, I was a person who never bought the narrative that a stable of WRs could come close to replacing what Hill provided. That said, I acknowledged that it was certainly worth a shot given that we didn't have a great deal of other options at that point (I'm still waiting for you to tell me we should've traded a 1st and probably more for McLaurin or AJ Brown). And through 3 games, we have one amazing performance and 2 very lackluster performances. But I also think the OL has done him no favors at all and we've seen him struggle in the past when he doesn't trust his protection.

So is your problem the Hardman draft pick and writing Sky Moore off after 3 games? Or are you just criticizing the trade of Hill? The team always wanted to have Hill and JuJu as their primary wideouts. Should we have force JuJu at gunpoint last offseason?

And does the fact that we have the best pass catching TE in the NFL lessen the need to have the most dynamic WRs in the game? Absolutely. And will that change as Kelce becomes less productive? Also absolutely.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Ask Aaron Rodger how many SB's that strategy helped him win.

It's ****ing dumb. What's insane to me is that when we signed Watkins the whole damn fan base was on board with the concept that you load your franchise QB with premium skill position talent and we DON'T do what GB and NE does. Even ****ing Veach was on record saying that.

...and here we are. Convincing yourselves that it's a solid strategy....crazy, man.

Yep. It's a crazy strategy that does not work.

[OKchiefs]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Ask Aaron Rodger how many SB's that strategy helped him win.

It's ****ing dumb. What's insane to me is that when we signed Watkins the whole damn fan base was on board with the concept that you load your franchise QB with premium skill position talent and we DON'T do what GB and NE does. Even ****ing Veach was on record saying that.

...and here we are. Convincing yourselves that it's a solid strategy....crazy, man.

I don’t think that’s the intended strategy. Veach has invested high picks on offense, the problem is they have all been shit (verdict is still to be determined on Moore).

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

That's all fine and dandy, but if he gets a better feel for PRs, he gives you the highest ceiling.

The problem with yanking him off them is putting someone else there. Who do you put there that gives you what Moore does, if Moore can get the skill down? It's unclear to me, because Hardman is no good either.

I'm fine with the itchy trigger fingers on Pacheco at KR, because Hardman's good there.

I suppose McDuffie returned punts at training camp, but he's not coming down the mountainside for a few more weeks.

A) That's a MASSIVE 'if' you're putting in there. You think his college coaches didn't try him out returning punts? If he wasn't doing it in college, there's a reason for it.

B) I don't even see the 'high ceiling' you're referencing. He's not an open field burner, he's not a physical presence. He's a poor man's Dante Hall and Hall was a once in a generation sort of guy because of his comfort level and vision back there. The vast majority of guys that try to return like Dante Hall end up returning like De'Anthony Thomas.

The right answer is Hardman. He has genuine upside at the position. Plenty of experience with it. And he's just going to be safer back there. I don't see anywhere near the upside necessary to justify the risk. It's already cost us a game - you think he's gonna win us two at some point? I damn sure don't.

[OKchiefs]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Up to this point Veach has not demonstrated the ability to secure WR talent.

Yeah, whatever, flame me all you want for saying something negative about Veach. But show me the goddamn receipts. It's been miss after miss after miss.

But hey, at least he can find a center and guard, two of the least impactful positions on a roster.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by RunKC

It’s a great strategy. The problem is execution. They aren’t ignoring weapons for Patrick. They spent a 1st on CEH, 2nd on Hardman and 2nd on Skyy.

CEH and Hardman suck. That’s the problem. Skyy is TBD but struggled yesterday.

It’s not bc of ignoring weapons or for a lack of trying

They traded down and drafted Skyy when they had better options on the table. They probably shoulda just taken the bigger, faster talents, i'd say.

Same can be applied to the DK/Hardman situation. By all accounts, DK would've been the perfect fit for Mahomes. This was something that felt OBVIOUS leading up to the draft. How the **** does that not happen?

They and the fans have this mindset that Mahomes will just make it all work. Everyone will be great!

[O.city]

Have great WR's but OL sucks "gotta draft OL"

Build great OL "Wr's can't get open".

I forget CP is CP sometimes.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

A) That's a MASSIVE 'if' you're putting in there. You think his college coaches didn't try him out returning punts? If he wasn't doing it in college, there's a reason for it.

B) I don't even see the 'high ceiling' you're referencing. He's not an open field burner, he's not a physical presence. He's a poor man's Dante Hall and Hall was a once in a generation sort of guy because of his comfort level and vision back there. The vast majority of guys that try to return like Dante Hall end up returning like De'Anthony Thomas.

The right answer is Hardman. He has genuine upside at the position. Plenty of experience with it. And he's just going to be safer back there. I don't see anywhere near the upside necessary to justify the risk. It's already cost us a game - you think he's gonna win us two at some point? I damn sure don't.

Hardman's only issue, that I can recall, is that he sometimes calls for fair catches inside the 10. I can live with that if he's breaking off long punt returns. I've yet to see Moore do anything back there that would tell you he excels at it.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by OKchiefs

But hey, at least he can find a center and guard, two of the least impactful positions on a roster.

Dude....this is a reeruned take.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

They traded down and drafted Skyy when they had better options on the table. They probably shoulda just taken the bigger, faster talents, i'd say.

Same can be applied to the DK/Hardman situation. By all accounts, DK would've been the perfect fit for Mahomes. This was something that felt OBVIOUS leading up to the draft. How the **** does that not happen?

They and the fans have this mindset that Mahomes will just make it all work. Everyone will be great!

JFC dude maybe give Skyy more than 3 games into his rookie season before saying shit like this?

I can see Overreaction Planet is in full effect today. I'm just going to stay away this week.

[crayzkirk]

When the Hill trade was done, I believed that this was to build for the future. Well, the future isn't the present and I'm going to have to learn to be patient. The immediate success has spoiled me and my expectations are out of line with reality.

I also believe that some of this has gone to the heads of the players and coaching staff. That they are good enough to just put anyone out there and Patrick will make them the next star.

Patrick and Reid are becoming somewhat predictable and teams are learning to exploit that tendency. Maybe some of the warts that scouts saw in Patrick are coming to the surface now that teams force him to throw short passes and take away what he wants to do.

The best way to break down an opponent is to take away what they do best. Force them to do what they don't want to do. It looks like teams are doing that to the Chiefs and the Chiefs keep being a hammer so everything is a nail.

[smithandrew051]

Originally Posted by The Franchise

Hardman's only issue, that I can recall, is that he sometimes calls for fair catches inside the 10. I can live with that if he's breaking off long punt returns. I've yet to see Moore do anything back there that would tell you he excels at it.

I’d prefer a more conservative approach to special teams overall, but that clearly isn’t going to happen with Toub.

With that in mind, put the guy back there who gives you the best chance for a big return. That guy is Hardman.

If we’re going this route (which I don’t like), then go with the guy with the upside.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by The Franchise

Dude....this is a reeruned take.

He's spewing his reeruned takes all over the place since the game yesterday.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by smithandrew051

I’d prefer a more conservative approach to special teams overall, but that clearly isn’t going to happen with Toub.

With that in mind, put the guy back there who gives you the best chance for a big return. That guy is Hardman.

If we’re going this route (which I don’t like), then go with the guy with the upside.

Toub needs to go after this year. I don't give a shit anymore. I'm tired of him wasting roster spots on his guys instead of putting together a STs group with guys who can play actual positions.