Things I think it's time for:

[Chris Meck]

1. You can't trot Ammendola out again. You just can't. It'd be mutiny. I don't care what you do, you have to cut him and sign someone else. I'd go for two every time and have Reid kick off before I did that again.

2. Justin Watson needs way more snaps. Yes, he could've caught that one ball today, but he's big, he's fast, hes a physical match-up problem, and he usually catches the ball. He was inches away from another big TD today. Play him.

3. It's time to get Pacheco more touches. The midget squad isn't getting it done. It's not all their fault, but at least Pacheco is big and strong enough to maybe break some tackles.

4. It's time to bench Wylie. Wanegho can't be worse, and might have upside. Just do it, for accountability's sake if nothing else.

5. I think it's time to force feed more snaps to Moore. I don't want him returning punts anymore. Put Hardman there, you know what Hardman is, and he's not a route running WR. At least he might break a PR.

[ThyKingdomCome15]

Things we're late in doing: Showing EB the door and pretending our gimmick play calling doesn't need a running game to go with it. Also, get Skyy on the field and put Mecole back on PR duties. Andy just isn't in syn with this team right now. I know it's early but I'm starting to wonder if Andy is losing his touch in dealing with personelle.

[Chris Meck]

Wow

I wasn't posting that the sky is falling, but that's kinda where everyone is at.

Just felt like these were 5 things it was time to change.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Wow

I wasn't posting that the sky is falling, but that's kinda where everyone is at.

Just felt like these were 5 things it was time to change.

I don’t think people are there. We have way more realistic expectations vs last year.

We all know mahomes can and will improve. And I think most know Reid has the genius to work his way out of this. I’ve seen minimal complaints from our defense.

Most of what we see are big but very fixable things. But we are hurting ourselves if we don’t make the big changes we need. We likely need a WR and hopefully skyy moore can contribute sooner vs later. We need an option besides ceh to actually produce. And if bieniemy has any say in playcalling we need to take that away. If we don’t have the right WRs or RBs in the room it shouldn’t be hard to find one in the scrap pile. If our coaching can’t figure out these zones then bring in a special assistant who can help.

All very fixable problems but worst case scenario we are an excellent team with some challenges. I think the strong reaction from everyone is because these issues CAN be solved if we commit to them.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I don’t think people are there. We have way more realistic expectations vs last year.

We all know mahomes can and will improve. And I think most know Reid has the genius to work his way out of this. I’ve seen minimal complaints from our defense.

Most of what we see are big but very fixable things. But we are hurting ourselves if we don’t make the big changes we need. We likely need a WR and hopefully skyy moore can contribute sooner vs later. We need an option besides ceh to actually produce. And if bieniemy has any say in playcalling we need to take that away. If we don’t have the right WRs or RBs in the room it shouldn’t be hard to find one in the scrap pile. If our coaching can’t figure out these zones then bring in a special assistant who can help.

All very fixable problems but worst case scenario we are an excellent team with some challenges. I think the strong reaction from everyone is because these issues CAN be solved if we commit to them.

I'm not sure about that. We have reached the point where we have a lack of playmakers on offense. Mahomes can't do it all, especially with no protection..Our Tackles are terrible. I said 10-7 before the season, and I'm sticking to it. Going to be an up and down year. Deal is, we need to get Mahomes some playmakers, but OBJ is not going to work out and it's going to cost us to get a LT. But a new one is definitely needed.

On a positive note, the defense is much better.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I don’t think people are there. We have way more realistic expectations vs last year.

We all know mahomes can and will improve. And I think most know Reid has the genius to work his way out of this. I’ve seen minimal complaints from our defense.

Most of what we see are big but very fixable things. But we are hurting ourselves if we don’t make the big changes we need. We likely need a WR and hopefully skyy moore can contribute sooner vs later. We need an option besides ceh to actually produce. And if bieniemy has any say in playcalling we need to take that away. If we don’t have the right WRs or RBs in the room it shouldn’t be hard to find one in the scrap pile. If our coaching can’t figure out these zones then bring in a special assistant who can help.

All very fixable problems but worst case scenario we are an excellent team with some challenges. I think the strong reaction from everyone is because these issues CAN be solved if we commit to them.

I'm not sure about that. We have reached the point where we have a lack of playmakers on offense. Mahomes can't do it all, especially with no protection..Our Tackles are terrible. I said 10-7 before the season, and I'm sticking to it. Going to be an up and down year. Deal is, we need to get Mahomes some playmakers, but OBJ is not going to work out and it's going to cost us to get a LT. But a new one is definitely needed.

On a positive note, the defense is much better.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by staylor26

This seems like a far cry from your Moore takes going back to the draft.

You said guys like Moore get drafted in the 3rd every year, and he was essentially a reach in the 2nd. You called him a WR3 at best, and you seemed to think it was more likely than not that he wouldn't even be that.

Seems like your opinion on him has changed significantly. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that's because of the flashes he shaped in TC and preseason?

I don't necessarily think that's a bad/harsh take at all, but it's clearly different from your takes before the draft.

It's because he has a skill set that should be useful here and one the chiefs can put to good use.

I still think he's a 3rd round caliber prospect but as I said earlier - we underestimate the ability to find quality WRs in the middle rounds. It happens every year.

My opinion is largely unchanged - he is a slot receiver who the Chiefs can get production out of because they're a smart organization who needs what he can provide. But he's not a premier prospect and he's not going to be a #1 wideout. If he's your best receiver at any point, your receivers suck.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by TEX

I'm not sure about that. We have reached the point where we have a lack of playmakers on offense. Mahomes can't do it all, especially with no protection..Our Tackles are terrible. I said 10-7 before the season, and I'm sticking to it. Going to be an up and down year. Deal is, we need to get Mahomes some playmakers, but OBJ is not going to work out and it's going to cost us to get a LT. But a new one is definitely needed.

On a positive note, the defense is much better.

I think we have plenty of support talent, but we just need a decent #1. I don’t think we need a tyreek hill, but we need at least a mid level WR1. I don’t think we need Derrick Henry but we need a guy who can be a legitimate mid level RB1 somewhere else. The bar is low enough that it shouldn’t be that hard to find.

Of course it would be nice to find studs at both positions. But if, for example, skyy and Pacheco can play to that level we can be ok. rB should not be hard to find on the waiver wire if not. And I’m intrigued by options like Corey Davis in a trade - not an elite guy, but definitely good enough to make the rest of our WRs better.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by staylor26

This seems like a far cry from your Moore takes going back to the draft.

You said guys like Moore get drafted in the 3rd every year, and he was essentially a reach in the 2nd. You called him a WR3 at best, and you seemed to think it was more likely than not that he wouldn't even be that.

Seems like your opinion on him has changed significantly. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that's because of the flashes he shaped in TC and preseason?

I don't necessarily think that's a bad/harsh take at all, but it's clearly different from your takes before the draft.

Here - from the pre-draft Moore thread (spoilered so everyone else doesn't have to wade through our bullshit)

Spoiler!

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Would really hate Moore in the 1st round.

A lot.

With the late second? Sure.

But man, I just don't see what some of y'all are seeing. I don't see a guy who's big enough to be the X we want long-term, quick enough to be a dynamic player in the slot or large enough to be a red-zone threat.

I see a really REALLY fungible player here with no real standout skills. He's...fine. He's a low ceiling, relatively high floor, depth WR on a good team. I just don't really understand what I'm missing with him.

But ultimately I think that horse has been beaten to death so I guess we just let it play out.

Spoiler!

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Sounds like we're probably in each other's ballpark.

I think Lockett is what happens when this kind of player develops to the absolute peak of his ability. Locket is Moore's top 1% scenario. But it's not like there's a shortage of sub 6ft WRs who run a 4.4 and have okay agility scores.

So to put him on that sort of development arc is pretty damn aggressive. I don't think we can confidently say anything like that is going to happen. He's just as likely (in fact significantly more likely) to be Andy Isabella. Sure looks a LOT like Keke Coutee to me.

I just don't see the ceiling to justify that sort of capital. And ultimately I'd be shocked if he's my favorite guy at 50. Honestly, from your relatively tepid comments, I'd be surprised if that's the case for you as well.

You may be willing to 'consider' him at 50 - but dollars to donuts says that when that pick comes up there are at least 3 guys on the board you'll like more than him.

I just can't see it. I'd consider him a necessary evil at 62 and wouldn't consider him a real 'value' play until the back of the 3rd. And I'm guessing that's also how long it will take for me to look at my board and see him at the top of it.

This gets back to where I started - man, that's SUPER tepid 'criticism' of this kid. Saying I'd consider him a value play in the 3rd and a viable but not ideal pick in the late 2nd puts me like 15 spots off of where Veach had him valued. Afterall, Veach risked losing him outright for a 5th round pick. That's not someone he had a 1st round grade on and likely not someone he had a high 2nd on or he simply doesn't move for such a small return.

But as is your custom, you go WAY over the top when someone dares discuss one of 'your guys' in a less than glowing fashion. You wanna talk changing opinions - in that very thread YOU said you'd prefer Tolbert over him if they were both available at 62.

And now you're out here acting like you had this guy pegged for the HoF and I called him some piece of shit. Dude - you gotta stop doing that shit. Stop overplaying my position on guys. I didn't hammer this guy (apart from being aggressively anti-1st round pick on him). Nor did you scream about his greatness from the rafters.

[Hoover]

Guys Hardman is banged up with a bum heel or something.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Wow

I wasn't posting that the sky is falling, but that's kinda where everyone is at.

Just felt like these were 5 things it was time to change.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I think we have plenty of support talent, but we just need a decent #1. I don’t think we need a tyreek hill, but we need at least a mid level WR1. I don’t think we need Derrick Henry but we need a guy who can be a legitimate mid level RB1 somewhere else. The bar is low enough that it shouldn’t be that hard to find.

Of course it would be nice to find studs at both positions. But if, for example, skyy and Pacheco can play to that level we can be ok. rB should not be hard to find on the waiver wire if not. And I’m intrigued by options like Corey Davis in a trade - not an elite guy, but definitely good enough to make the rest of our WRs better.

You might be right... I just remember not that long ago watching Hill, Watkins (when healthy), Kelce and Hunt, with Mahomes at QB. THAT was COOL! After Hunt was released, it did work with Damien, but the other skilled positions were stacked. Also had solid Tackles, which was huge. Now, we are a shell of that with the playmakers and Tackles.
My biggest concern is we go the Green Bay route, and that model does not work. I can't remember the last playmaker Veach drafted. IMO, it's a bit concerning. Like you said, maybe Skyy can be one.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Here - from the pre-draft Moore thread (spoilered so everyone else doesn't have to wade through our bullshit)

Spoiler!

Spoiler!

This gets back to where I started - man, that's SUPER tepid 'criticism' of this kid. Saying I'd consider him a value play in the 3rd and a viable but not ideal pick in the late 2nd puts me like 15 spots off of where Veach had him valued. Afterall, Veach risked losing him outright for a 5th round pick. That's not someone he had a 1st round grade on and likely not someone he had a high 2nd on or he simply doesn't move for such a small return.

But as is your custom, you go WAY over the top when someone dares discuss one of 'your guys' in a less than glowing fashion. You wanna talk changing opinions - in that very thread YOU said you'd prefer Tolbert over him if they were both available at 62.

And now you're out here acting like you had this guy pegged for the HoF and I called him some piece of shit. Dude - you gotta stop doing that shit. Stop overplaying my position on guys. I didn't hammer this guy (apart from being aggressively anti-1st round pick on him). Nor did you scream about his greatness from the rafters.

I said I'd take Tolbert becuase I really like Tolbert too. In that group that was available, I liked Pickens and Tolbert over him. That's it. I would've take Skyy over Watson, Pierce, etc. too. I even said that I suspect the Chiefs would like Moore over Tolbert, and I was absolutely fine with that. Those guys were very close for me after Pickens.

For crying out loud, I was literally defending the possibility of taking Moore in the 1st. Why would I do that with a guy that I don't really like? He wasn't a Chief at the time. This wasn't me just being a homer.

Come on DJ, I can see you're taking this way beyond what it's supposed to be. I'm not even sure how we ended up back here based on that reply to King that you quoted. I'm not telling you you're an idiot for your Moore takes. I just think you're wrong about his upside, and that's what I've been saying going back to that thread.

I compared the guy to Tyler Lockett, and I think you gave him a 5% chance of being that good. I think that's a good example of how far apart we are, because I think a Lockett is a 1B caliber player, and while I'd prefer to get our Metcalf, I don't think him being our #1 would necessarily mean that our WRs suck, although I can understand your point that. Preferably he's a 1B or WR2 for me down the line.

As for why I assumed your opinion has changed a bit, I don't see how you can compare the guy to Golden Tate, and also say there are guys like him in the 3rd round every year, and he's a WR3 at best. That seems like a contradiction.

And I never said my opinion on Skyy hasn't changed at all. I'm more confident than ever in my assessment that he has more upside than you give him credit for. What I saw in TC and the preseason only confirmed that for me. For instance, going back, I would definitely take him over Tolbert based on what I've seen from those 2.

At the end of the day, we all miss on guys. I'm not scared to be wrong, and I think you're taking friendly banter the wrong way. How's this any different from you and Pest with Williams?

I always respect your opinions, I just think you're wrong about Moore and I clearly have felt that way from the beginning. We don't have to agree on every player the Chiefs draft though. That's fine.

Now can we be friends again?

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

FWIW, Wanegho had a really high grade on PFF. Much higher than Wylie’s.

He took like 2 snaps.

[OKchiefs]

Originally Posted by TEX

You might be right... I just remember not that long ago watching Hill, Watkins (when healthy), Kelce and Hunt, with Mahomes at QB. THAT was COOL! After Hunt was released, it did work with Damien, but the other skilled positions were stacked. Also had solid Tackles, which was huge. Now, we are a shell of that with the playmakers and Tackles.
My biggest concern is we go the Green Bay route, and that model does not work. I can't remember the last playmaker Veach drafted. IMO, it's a bit concerning. Like you said, maybe Skyy can be one.

You can’t remember the last playmaker he’s drafted because he’s never drafted a playmaker.

[nicksdad]

Or signed one . Or traded for one . But it has only been five years right . Cue the responses from the Brett Veach Ball Washing Association

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by TEX

You might be right... I just remember not that long ago watching Hill, Watkins (when healthy), Kelce and Hunt, with Mahomes at QB. THAT was COOL! After Hunt was released, it did work with Damien, but the other skilled positions were stacked. Also had solid Tackles, which was huge. Now, we are a shell of that with the playmakers and Tackles.
My biggest concern is we go the Green Bay route, and that model does not work. I can't remember the last playmaker Veach drafted. IMO, it's a bit concerning. Like you said, maybe Skyy can be one.

Packers are a good "this is the worst case scenario" of an approach that entirely prioritises defence with a HOF QB. A cautionary tale. Everyone who clamoured for a million DEs in the draft and screamed blue murder at the possibility of drafting a WR high should bear this in mind. We need playmakers.