Have NFL defenses fully adjusted to the RPO?

[rabblerouser]

Elements of this discussion are popping up in other threads, so let's discuss it in its own thread?

My opinion :

NFL defenses have caught up with the RPO.

Time for Patrick to really hone his pre-snap reads and start actually going through progressions based on those reads as opposed to reading the safety to determine man or zone and then doing everything else based on what the defense presents once the ball is snapped.

They know what we're doing and have adjusted.

Will Reid toss Bieniemy and go back to his WCO roots and press Mahomes to be even greater?

Or are we looking at another McCarthy-Rogers situation?

[Wisconsin_Chief]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

The RPO gives Mahomes a TON of control. In fact, it's probably a big reason we don't run the ball as often.

I'm not really saying it's about control, though. Sure, he can decide to pass or run, but if the defense is in position to stop whatever passing play is in motion, it doesn't really matter. That's the issue.

On top of that, the line is blocking for a run play and Pat tends to hold the ball a little longer than he should on those reads which is leading to him getting pulverized way too often.

I don't know, it seems to be failing more often than succeeding these days which means it's time for something new.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Wisconsin_Chief

I'm not really saying it's about control, though. Sure, he can decide to pass or run, but if the defense is in position to stop whatever passing play is in motion, it doesn't really matter. That's the issue.

On top of that, the line is blocking for a run play and Pat tends to hold the ball a little longer than he should on those reads which is leading to him getting pulverized way too often.

I don't know, it seems to be failing more often than succeeding these days which means it's time for something new.

That's the thing about the RPO. It's a call AFTER the snap. The defense is never in a position to fully stop the RPO, that's the whole point of having post-snap option reads. The problem is that the reads have to be RIGHT. You can't hand off the ball right into penetration and you shouldn't pull it back and try to throw it when there's 8 guys in coverage.

That's why I keep saying that some of the blame has to be on Mahomes. They give him a ton of leeway with the RPO and he doesn't always execute it correctly. In fact, when we're struggling or behind and he starts pressing, he executes it poorly many times.

[Wisconsin_Chief]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

That's the thing about the RPO. It's a call AFTER the snap. The defense is never in a position to fully stop the RPO, that's the whole point of having post-snap option reads. The problem is that the reads have to be RIGHT. You can't hand off the ball right into penetration and you shouldn't pull it back and try to throw it when there's 8 guys in coverage.

That's why I keep saying that some of the blame has to be on Mahomes. They give him a ton of leeway with the RPO and he doesn't always execute it correctly. In fact, when we're struggling or behind and he starts pressing, he executes it poorly many times.

So then it begs the question, are defenses getting a tell from Mahomes that lets them know what he doing? Obviously we know he's going to lean pass because he wants to throw the ball, but what have they figured out about him? How are they disguising things so well that he can't figure them out? Or is it a simple fact they're going to play the pass no matter what because they know we can't/won't run the ball?

Seems to me week one we committed to running the ball early and it worked like a charm. If it's the simple fact that Mahomes won't run it when he should, that's worrisome for sure.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Wisconsin_Chief

So then it begs the question, are defenses getting a tell from Mahomes that lets them know what he doing? Obviously we know he's going to lean pass because he wants to throw the ball, but what have they figured out about him? How are they disguising things so well that he can't figure them out? Or is it a simple fact they're going to play the pass no matter what because they know we can't/won't run the ball?

Seems to me week one we committed to running the ball early and it worked like a charm. If it's the simple fact that Mahomes won't run it when he should, that's worrisome for sure.

It's the one in bold, IMO.

[the steam]

Why don't the refs ever call illegal man down field on RPO's?

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by the steam

Why don't the refs ever call illegal man down field on RPO's?

They do. We've had a couple against us, IIRC.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by kcclone

Defenses are certainly catching up to the RPO and college style spread offense. Nothing new, these things always ebb & flow back and forth.

As someone said earlier, the RPO is a heck of a lot more effective, when you present a decent running game.

Defenses are way ahead of offenses in the NFL right now. Moreso than is normal for this early in a season.

This is why I said we shouldn't be disappointed if the offense only scores 24 in a given game. That is not cause for concern. It's just the way it's going to be in a post-Tyreek world.

The 2018 offense is never coming back so move forward.

Andy and Veach realized this earlier than most.

[scho63]

This RPO lived near you?

[Dark Horse]

We need to keep in mind that 80% of the Wr’s are new I’ve heard it said it takes a year and a half to fully learn Andy’s system. Plus getting in sync with Pat

[Marcellus]

I love how rando poster on CP knows how Mahomes is running the offense and how to fix it

Smarter than Andy Reid!

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

I love how rando poster on CP knows how Mahomes is running the offense and how to fix it

Smarter than Andy Reid!

Nobody KNOWS how Mahomes is running the offense, we can only see what we see. Nobody here other than rabble thinks they're smarter than Reid, either.

You're reading something here that hasn't been said. It's a ****ing football discussion board. We're discussing it.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Nobody KNOWS how Mahomes is running the offense, we can only see what we see. Nobody here other than rabble thinks they're smarter than Reid, either.

You're reading something here that hasn't been said. It's a ****ing football discussion board. We're discussing it.

I mean this certainly reads like someone thinks they know.

Time for Patrick to really hone his pre-snap reads and start actually going through progressions based on those reads as opposed to reading the safety to determine man or zone and then doing everything else based on what the defense presents once the ball is snapped.

And hey, I'm discussing football as well bud, this is hilarious.

My opinion they need to simply open up the offense and go back to what they were doing before last season and stop trying to dink and dunk the ball down the field. My $.02.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

I mean this certainly reads like someone thinks they know.

They know the difference between an audible and the RPO. Yeah, that post pretty much defines what the RPO is. So unless YOU don't know what it is, you haven't said anything damning at all.

Certainly not the "gotcha" you think it is.

[RunKC]

They are dropping LB’s and playing cover 2 against guys like Mahomes and Allen. They just don’t care about giving up shorter chunk yards on the ground.

The biggest reason why the Patriots were a dynasty is bc Bill constantly had them evolve. When they won with the 3-4 defense early in the dynasty, teams started copying and drafting those prospects so Bill switched to a 4-3 and changed the defense letting 4-3 DE’s fall to him in the draft.

They were a strong passing team like us when Randy Moss was there. After Randy left Bill utilized the run game and also his TE’s when teams prepared for him to go pass heavy.

That’s why they were so good. And now we really need to focus on getting the running game going for this particular offense. No more running the offense as if we have 2018’s personnel.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

They know the difference between an audible and the RPO. Yeah, that post pretty much defines what the RPO is. So unless YOU don't know what it is, you haven't said anything damning at all.

Certainly not the "gotcha" you think it is.

Knowing the difference between an RPO and an audible has nothing to do with knowing how Mahomes is going through his reads and making the comment his reads have nothing to do with what his pre-snap defensive read is.

One of the reasons they use motion is specifically to get a pre snap read on the defense.

On that topic anyway, have you not heard Mahomes yell "kill kill kill" or yell "we good we good" pre snap?

WTF do you think he is doing there?