Kelce cementing his HOF status

[RunKC]

Fastest TE in history to get 450 receptions and 6,000 yards. Needs 167 more to get 1,000 yards and become the first TE in history to get 1,000 receiving yards in 4 straight years.

[AdolfOliverBush]

I question whether anyone who says Gonzalez is better than Kelce ever watched Gonzalez play, other than highlight videos.

Gonzalez is Karl Malone. Kelce is Jordan.

[AdolfOliverBush]

I question whether anyone who says Gonzalez is better than Kelce ever watched Gonzalez play, other than highlight videos.

Gonzalez is Karl Malone. Kelce is Jordan.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush

Gonzalez is Karl Malone. Kelce is Jordan.

Ooohhhhhhh.....I like that.

Well done, sir.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

You creamed your jeans over Christian Watson, didn't you?

Being tall and running fast in a straight line is not the end all, be all of athleticism. Trying to say that Jerry Rice isn't among the most athletic WRs of all time demonstrates that you just have a real odd definition of athletic. He absolutely was.

He's ability to make cuts without losing any speed and all then immediately hit his top end was remarkable. It's what made him absolutely uncoverable in that WCO system. Was he gonna sky over dudes like Moss? No, but that's why Moss became a damn verb. But Moss wasn't out there making those speed cuts either. Moss was a different kind of athlete, but not a clearly better one that Rice.

Before he got hurt, over his first 11 seasons Jerry Rice averaged 16 yards per reception (Moss managed 16 yards/reception in 4 seasons over his entire career). You think he 'smarted' his way to that? No way - he ran around and past guys to rack up that kind of damage.

Was Larry Fitzgerald among the most athletic of the all-time great WRs? No, no he was not. Was Jerry ****ing Rice - the best football player of all time - among the most athletic WRs ever? Jesus Christ...dafuq do I even need to answer that question for? Of COURSE he was. That dude was a monster.

Jerry rice by the eye test was not GOAT level athletic. You really think he comes close to the speed and vertical of moss, or the size/speed combo of megatron? Of course he was extremely athletic but on the eye test there’s no way you can throw him in a combine and predict he would be the GOAT at his position by a wide margin. You seem to use athleticism and feel for the position interchangeably. I’m separating those things out. So much of rices success is built off of absurdly next level route running, awareness, and the best ball skills and hands in football history. There were so many little things that added up. Hell, nobody reacted to the snap quicker than jerry rice. He was an absurdly, practically perfect tactician of the position. He was Tim Duncan on the most potent of steroids. Not to mention being known as easily the hardest working player in the league. Rice was the best at these things by a very wide margin when compared to the greats. And I’d say kelce will be considered the best at these things too.

But there is no way on pure athletic talent alone rice compares to some guys who are physical freaks of nature. I mean, megatron alone may as well have been built out of a science lab. Even if megatron played with bill Walsh and Montana rice would still destroy megatron.

What the hell does Christian Watson have to do with anything? Are there people creaming their jeans for cooper kupp? You’re damn right they are, as they should

[DJ's left nut]

Again - I feel like you're just substituting straight line speed for athleticism.

If your eyes don't tell you that peak Jerry Rice wasn't a freak athlete, imma say your eyes are broken.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Again - I feel like you're just substituting straight line speed for athleticism.

If your eyes don't tell you that peak Jerry Rice wasn't a freak athlete, imma say your eyes are broken.

Of course you have to be a hell of an athlete to be that productive. But you’re going to argue he was even close to the freak megatron was? It’s not like he had tyreek like quickness. By all measures he was not even close to the fastest, strongest or quickest. The best you can say athletically is that he was incredible with his feet. But Chad Johnson gave you elite foot speed and route running while being faster, stronger and generally more athletic.

He was a freak athlete but that doesn’t mean he is even close to being the freakiest of the all time greats. It does not explain how he is not only better than every single wr in history, he is better by a wide margin.

[Chiefnj2]

It's virtually impossible to compare players across decades with rule changes/enforcement regarding contact downfield and legal/illegal hits, defenseless receiver etc.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush

I question whether anyone who says Gonzalez is better than Kelce ever watched Gonzalez play, other than highlight videos.

Gonzalez is Karl Malone. Kelce is Jordan.

I have watched both in person and if I had to rank them currently I would put TG at 1 and TK at 2. Even if TK plays 5 more years to age 37 (unlikely) he wouldn't come close to TG's yards and TD's but obviously TG doesn't have the playoff\SB stats and wins like TK has.

I could probably make the argument if TG was playing in this era with Mahomes he would put up similar stats to TK and probably more TD's. Looking at pro football reference TG and TK are getting the same amount of targets per year and TG started out in era where they didn't pass near as much as they do today.

[lawrenceRaider]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

It's virtually impossible to compare players across decades with rule changes/enforcement regarding contact downfield and legal/illegal hits, defenseless receiver etc.

While true, Kelce is pushing GOAT status. His skill set would fit any era.

[Gary Cooper]

Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush

I question whether anyone who says Gonzalez is better than Kelce ever watched Gonzalez play, other than highlight videos.

Gonzalez is Karl Malone. Kelce is Jordan.

That's going too far. The gap between Jordan and Malone is much higher than Kelce/Gonzalez.

[AdolfOliverBush]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

I have watched both in person and if I had to rank them currently I would put TG at 1 and TK at 2. Even if TK plays 5 more years to age 37 (unlikely) he wouldn't come close to TG's yards and TD's but obviously TG doesn't have the playoff\SB stats and wins like TK has.

I could probably make the argument if TG was playing in this era with Mahomes he would put up similar stats to TK and probably more TD's. Looking at pro football reference TG and TK are getting the same amount of targets per year and TG started out in era where they didn't pass near as much as they do today.

I compared TG to Malone because both have amazing stats. Malone had far more career points than Jordan thanks to longevity, but few would argue that Malone was even close to Jordan as a player.

Malone was also a HOFer who never got a ring.

[Gary Cooper]

Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush

I compared TG to Malone because both have amazing stats. Malone had far more career points than Jordan thanks to longevity, but few would argue that Malone was even close to Jordan as a player.

Malone was also a HOFer who never got a ring.

Moses Malone vs. Karl Malone would be a more apt comparison. The former also won a ring and had a higher peak, albeit he lacked the career numbers and durability that Karl Malone had.

[AdolfOliverBush]

Originally Posted by JudasRising20

That's going too far. The gap between Jordan and Malone is much higher than Kelce/Gonzalez.

I don't see it. TG was great, but he wasn't the difference-maker Kelce is. TG redefined the TE position, and never won shit. Kelce redefined the TE position again, and is a winner.

As someone else said, Kelce is the evolution of TG.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by JudasRising20

That's going too far. The gap between Jordan and Malone is much higher than Kelce/Gonzalez.

I think it's an excellent example of peak vs. duration, though.

Malone, statistically, exceeds the raw counting stats of Jordan. But the rate stats clearly favor Jordan. The question of peak vs. duration also reflects on the respective post-season resumes of the party.

No analogue is going to be completely perfect but man, I think that's a really good one. Jordan is the GOAT among all players - air reserved for Jerry Rice in the NFL, IMO. But Malone is likely a top 10-15 guy in his own right due to duration.

I mean if you want to take post-season accolades out of the equation and just compare them to TEs, would Kareem vs. Jordan suit you better?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush

I question whether anyone who says Gonzalez is better than Kelce ever watched Gonzalez play, other than highlight videos.

Gonzalez is Karl Malone. Kelce is Jordan.

So in qb terms you think kelce is Jordan and gonzalez is Philip rivers? Surely you don’t believe that.

[AdolfOliverBush]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

So in qb terms you think kelce is Jordan and gonzalez is Philip rivers? Surely you don’t believe that.

TG would be a Dan Marino, although Marino made it to a Super Bowl.