I don’t see much talk about Pacheatcode becoming the new #1

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by mr. tegu

Our first round RB avoids a 5 yard wide hole because there’s a guy 8 yards away when you only need 1 yard for a first down.

Fred Warner is not just 'some guy.' He's a two-legged run-seeking missile. One of the best to ever do it.

And he wasn't 8 yards off the LoS, because he's not some rookie.

He was no more than 5 yards from the LoS, staring CEH down.

If CEH tried to cut that back, no doubt Warner drives down and tackles him. Because Fred is one of the best open field tacklers in the NFL.

The only question is IF Clyde had tried the cutback, could CEH have made enough of a move on Warner to get two yards. The advantage was in favor of Fred stopping any of our RBs short of the line to gain. He's just that good.

But like I said earlier, I'd like to see him at least try a couple times a game, instead of always blindly following his blocks.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Fred Warner is not just 'some guy.' He's a two-legged run-seeking missile. One of the best to ever do it.

And he wasn't 8 yards off the LoS, because he's not some rookie.

He was no more than 5 yards from the LoS, staring CEH down.

If CEH tried to cut that back, no doubt Warner drives down and tackles him. Because Fred is one of the best open field tacklers in the NFL.

The only question is IF Clyde had tried the cutback, could CEH have made enough of a move on Warner to get two yards. The advantage was in favor of Fred stopping any of our RBs short of the line to gain. He's just that good.

But like I said earlier, I'd like to see him at least try a couple times a game, instead of always blindly following his blocks.

It's not a 'cutback'. He's cutting back in order to find MORE contact.

His natural momentum is taking him to the hole. Cutting back is what created the congestion.

He just isn't very good.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It's not a 'cutback'. He's cutting back in order to find MORE contact.

His natural momentum is taking him to the hole. Cutting back is what created the congestion.

He just isn't very good.

I didn't say he was good. Just that he (or any of our RBs) weren't getting that conversion as the play unfolded regardless of whether he followed his blocks or cut back into that hole we're all looking at. The 49ers defense blew the play up, and Warner is waiting for in that hole. Not Hitchens, Fred Warner. Warner doesn't get dragged upfield; he either stops the RB in their tracks or they go backwards.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

I didn't say he was good. Just that he (or any of our RBs) weren't getting that conversion as the play unfolded regardless of whether he followed his blocks or cut back into that hole we're all looking at. The 49ers defense blew the play up, and Warner is waiting for in that hole. Not Hitchens, Fred Warner. Warner doesn't get dragged upfield; he either stops the RB in their tracks or they go backwards.

Yes, they absolutely were.

Fred Warner isn't Ray Neitchske. He's an excellent coverage backer and an extremely smart player, but he's a 230 lb MLB - he's not a thumper.

He's not standing up a quality RB who gets downfield and hits that hole with any authority. They don't make easier short yardage conversions than that one.

It's essentially two guys equidistant from the 1st down marker at the mesh with one of them being pro-active and the other reactive. And the pro-active guy just gave away the initiative by unnecessarily cutting into the pile, killing his momentum and finding MORE traffic than the 1v1 matchup he had that should've been at the sticks at worst.

It was a lousy run.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yes, they absolutely were.

Fred Warner isn't Ray Neitchske. He's an excellent coverage backer and an extremely smart player, but he's a 230 lb MLB - he's not a thumper.

He's not standing up a quality RB who gets downfield and hits that hole with any authority. They don't make easier short yardage conversions than that one.

It's essentially two guys equidistant from the 1st down marker at the mesh with one of them being pro-active and the other reactive. And the pro-active guy just gave away the initiative by unnecessarily cutting into the pile, killing his momentum and finding MORE traffic than the 1v1 matchup he had that should've been at the sticks at worst.

It was a lousy run.

it was a lousy run. Thought I covered that already. But Warner makes RBs go backwards. And you forgot to mention that Warner is really fast and agile.

And you're assuming we have a quality RB. I'm not sure that we do. Jerrick has been performing well lately, but we're all just waiting for him to break down physically. Hope we're all wrong on that score. CEH hasn't been special in any way so far, and it's looking like that's not going to happen. Patches is a 7th rd RB that has shown some flashes, but I wouldn't say he's a "quality NFL RB' just yet.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

it was a lousy run. Thought I covered that already. But Warner makes RBs go backwards. And you forgot to mention that Warner is really fast and agile.

And you're assuming we have a quality RB. I'm not sure that we do. Jerrick has been performing well lately, but we're all just waiting for him to break down physically. Hope we're all wrong on that score. CEH hasn't been special in any way so far, and it's looking like that's not going to happen. Patches is a 7th rd RB that has shown some flashes, but I wouldn't say he's a "quality NFL RB' just yet.

So Fred Warner is so good that cutting into traffic is a better option? And regardless of if Fred Warner "makes people go backwards", that should be a first down 100/100.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by -King-

So Fred Warner is so good that cutting into traffic is a better option? And regardless of if Fred Warner "makes people go backwards", that should be a first down 100/100.

I didn't say I had an answer to the problem. just what the problems were. And Warner is just a really good, violent open field LB that is very fast for a LB and very quick and smart.

Look, I just wouldn't bet any money that any of our RBs convert on that particular play the way it unfolded. Regardless of whether they followed their blocks or tried taking on Warner. I mean, Fred is waiting there on a hair trigger, just hoping CEH turns his head in his direction, so he can crash down and blow Clyde up.

But if you want to believe that Clyde gets to the line-to-gain before Fred hits him, go ahead. It's all just speculation anyway.

I just don't believe it would happen that way, based on the film. Warner's faster than CEH and as sure a tackler as there is, so figure Warner beats CEH to the Line-to-gain by about half a yard or so. Clyde's not a big guy, so he stops right there.

Jerrick is pretty quick himself, and as a bigger guy when he changes direction, he simply covers more space than CEH, so maybe he makes Warner hesitate just enough to fall forward and convert by a yard?

Pacheco is an unknown.

[mr. tegu]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Fred Warner is not just 'some guy.' He's a two-legged run-seeking missile. One of the best to ever do it.

And he wasn't 8 yards off the LoS, because he's not some rookie.

He was no more than 5 yards from the LoS, staring CEH down.

If CEH tried to cut that back, no doubt Warner drives down and tackles him. Because Fred is one of the best open field tacklers in the NFL.

The only question is IF Clyde had tried the cutback, could CEH have made enough of a move on Warner to get two yards. The advantage was in favor of Fred stopping any of our RBs short of the line to gain. He's just that good.

But like I said earlier, I'd like to see him at least try a couple times a game, instead of always blindly following his blocks.

8 yards from CEH, not the LOS. Even an average RB gets the first down, even if he gets tackled by the one defender.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by mr. tegu

8 yards from CEH, not the LOS. Even an average RB gets the first down, even if he gets tackled by the one defender.

45 of his 65 carries this year have been with 10+ yards left to gain. 40 of them on 1st down.

I'm sure it's mere coincidence that the coaches don't give him the ball in tighter spots.

But man, how shitty is that? Guy is getting 6 carries on 1st and 10 every game. Worst part? He has 210 yards on those carries - not bad...until you remember that 52 of them came on a single run.

He's not good in short yardage and when you give him the ball on 1st down you're all but giving the play away. Oh, and he's easily less effective on 3rd downs than McKinnon so there's no sense having him in then.

So I guess if you give him the ball on 2nd and 4-6, you might be onto something. {checks notes} Oh...nevermind. He's averaging 3.2 yards/carry in those situations as well, so you probably shouldn't bother there either.

How 'bout we just stop giving him the ball? There's just never a situation where he's the best option.