Josh Allen is Philip Rivers 2.0

[Vegas_Dave]

So watching the Bills lose to the Vikings, it hit me watching Josh Allen on the bench pouting that he is a less mature version of Philip Rivers. This made me go on a stat finding mission to compare Allen to Rivers... and in in order to be fair to the media perception (& to prove what we all already know), compared Mahomes' stats as well.

We all KNOW that Mahomes is better than Allen (and if you don't, please look again). But the next time you have some Bills lover arguing, here are the facts...

Since both Mahomes & Allen have 4.5 years worth of stats to compare, I think its fair... and I grabbed the first 5 full years of Rivers' stats for the comparison. These are all averaged out based on the the actual number of games played (Excel spreadsheet available if anyone wants to double check). Here is what came to be:

# of Games Played for stat comparison:
Rivers: 80 games from 2006 - 2010
Allen: 70 games from 2018 - 2022
Mahomes: 71 from 2018-2022

Completion/Attempt/Comp%/Yards - per Game Average
Rivers: 19.34 / 30.31 / 63.79% / 243.91
Allen: 20.93 / 33.43 / 62.61% / 240.67
Mahomes: 24.97 / 37.69 / 66.26% / 304.83

TD/TD% per Att/Int/Int% per Att - per Game Average
Rivers: 1.69 TD / 5.57% / .71 INT / 2.35%
Allen: 1.76 TD / 5.26% / .81 INT / 2.39%
Mahomes: 2.48 TD / 6.58% / .61 INT / 1.61%

First Down %/Avg Rating/Avg QBR/Sacks/Sack Yds - per Game Average
Rivers: 39.46% / 97.22 Rating / 65.84 QBR / 1.71 sacks / 10.65 sk yds
Allen: 36.54% / 89.84 Rating / 62.16 QBR / 1.94 sacks / 12.37 sk yds
Mahomes: 42.86% / 106.38 Rating / 75.38 QBR / 1.54 sacks / 9.89 sk yds

Josh Allen is a Good QB - but he is NOT Mahomes. He is Philip Rivers 2.0 - but a little less mature in my opinion. Rivers had 2 years of sitting. So Average Age for them is

Rivers: 27
Allen: 24
Mahomes: 25

So maybe we will see Allen mature a little more, but he is no Mahomes.

*all stats compiled from www.pro-football-reference.com

[JimNasium]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Yeah, Steve Young won 3 SBs. And a huge pile of other NFL awards/achievements, including twice named NFL MVP.

Josh Allen has a very long way to go to be on the same level as Steve Young.

Weren’t two of those as backup to Montana?

[Mecca]

That Steve Young comparison isn't good, Young was a much headier player. He didn't run cause he had to it was when it was the best play...he also didn't think he was a badass trucking defenders...

Young would take a check down over running or making a dumb pass.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DRM08

Steve was on the bench for 2 of his rings. Montana won them. Steve was the starting QB for 1 ring.

ah, that's right.

However, Steve's list of accomplishments is long, too long for me to type in here (because I'm kind of feeling lazy today and because there's a lot of it).

Josh ain't anywhere near Steve young. Not yet, anyway.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by KCJake

Josh Allen's running ability makes him better than Rivers if that's what we're doing here is comparing those two. Bring Mahomes into the mix and yea, he smokes both of them. It's really not even close. Mahomes could retire tomorrow and lets be honest you could argue he's hall of fame material.

Yes, Mahomes could never play another game and he's already accomplished enough to be a HOFer. probably a first ballot HOFer.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Don't trust Wonderlic anymore. I think agents prepare them now, it's not the same as it was.

Have you ever taken the test? It’s not like 2+2=4. It’s not something you just prepare for and get some super high score.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Honestly, I think Burrow is better.

Almost no people in the NFL would agree with you.

[Bump]

Originally Posted by Gary Cooper

Allen already has more playoff success than Rivers.

Plus, his running game and mobility are a weapon. Rivers was a statue with a strong arm and poor decision making skills in clutch moments.

ya, it comes down to can you win in the playoffs with this QB?

Rivers never had much success there, and there were some really talented charger teams.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

ah, that's right.

However, Steve's list of accomplishments is long, too long for me to type in here (because I'm kind of feeling lazy today and because there's a lot of it).

Josh ain't anywhere near Steve young. Not yet, anyway.

These type of comparisons happen all the time, even in the Draft when a kid hasn't done anything. Obviously they have to stick around for a long time to have the overall career of anyone they are compared against.

Tech folks like myself were comparing Mahomes' talent to guys like Rodgers & Favre when he was a 19 year old true freshman. Allen has amazing talent as well. He's kind of a freak when you look at his body size, strong running ability, rocket arm, and high Wonderlic score. Some guys have the physical talent and zero brain (JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Cam Newton).

These young guys like Allen or Mahomes have to stick around a long time to have the type of overall career of guys like Steve Young or Rodgers/Favre. Only time will tell, but they both have tremendous potential.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Originally Posted by Mecca

That Steve Young comparison isn't good, Young was a much headier player. He didn't run cause he had to it was when it was the best play...he also didn't think he was a badass trucking defenders...

Young would take a check down over running or making a dumb pass.

Unfair comparison based on eras. Today...Young would be running more. My comment was more about skill-set...not about the actual offense the offense these two guys have been given to run.

[chiefzilla1501]

Where do people get this shit from? He’s already won a playoff game which way quicker than rivers did. And he lost last year despite having an absurdly good performance. He’s been extremely good this year save for a recent funk which includes late game heroics against us. I like our guy but find it weird to undersell the guy. He’s a really good player and seems like a good dude. It’s just that our dude is better. He may be way more Aaron rodgers than he is Philip rivers.

[Gary Cooper]

Originally Posted by Bump

ya, it comes down to can you win in the playoffs with this QB?

Rivers never had much success there, and there were some really talented charger teams.

Exactly. QB's aren't winning Super Bowls by themselves, but in Rivers' case, I don't know if he ever made a Conference championship, let alone win a Super Bowl. The Chargers were usually missing the playoffs or losing quickly in the playoffs. You'd think he could at least steal a few big games before going down in flames.

Allen's game against the Chiefs last year was better than any big game Rivers played.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DRM08

These type of comparisons happen all the time, even in the Draft when a kid hasn't done anything. Obviously they have to stick around for a long time to have the overall career of anyone they are compared against.

Tech folks like myself were comparing Mahomes' talent to guys like Rodgers & Favre when he was a 19 year old true freshman. Allen has amazing talent as well. He's kind of a freak when you look at his body size, strong running ability, rocket arm, and high Wonderlic score. Some guys have the physical talent and zero brain (JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Cam Newton).

These young guys like Allen or Mahomes have to stick around a long time to have the type of overall career of guys like Steve Young or Rodgers/Favre. Only time will tell, but they both have tremendous potential.

Concur.

Allen is a physical beast. I'll even say that he's a far better overall athlete than Young and possesses the better arm.

If he had Mahomes' processing ability and football acumen, he'd probably be the best that has ever played, eventually. heck, if he had Young's processing ability he'd probably be a lock to get one.

But he doesn't, thank God.

Not yet, anyway.

Allen could still go on and win a SB someday, in my opinion. He's talented enough, more than.

And he's come a long way from his first couple seasons.

As you say, time will tell.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by dallaschiefsfan

Unfair comparison based on eras. Today...Young would be running more. My comment was more about skill-set...not about the actual offense the offense these two guys have been given to run.

Not to completely derail this thread, but i think Young would be throwing more today. He's said as much when questioned about playing today.

Back then, the middle of the field was kind of off-limits. Because things like what happened to Juju Sunday were completely legal, even encouraged by the NFL. Guys like Ronnie Lott and Steve Atwater, just to name a couple, were paid what they were paid to knock receivers' heads off if they tried to catch passes between the numbers. So, while they still threw over the middle, in general QBs were a lot more careful about when and where and how often they did so.

[JustDíqLix]

Originally Posted by tyecopeland

Not that I disagree with the premise (although Allen is better than rivers, whether that be because of supporting cast and coaches or talent) but I would be curious and I think a better comparison would be if you removed Allen's first year. He's a much better player than he was his first year.

His first 2 years definitely drag down any comparison or average.
Here are the stats over the last 3 seasons:

The past 3 seasons (start of 2020)…

Josh Allen: 66%, 111 TD’s, 33 INT, 18 lost fumbles
Pat Mahomes: 66%, 101 TD’s, 25 INT, 11 lost fumbles

Allen is +60 in Net TD’s (touchdown minus turnovers). Mahomes is +65 in Net TD’s.

The numbers are as close to equal as you can get.

— Bills Stats & More (@Tickets_Buffalo) November 13, 2022

[Hammock Parties]

Patrick Mahomes has played in only 2 more regular season games in his career than Josh Allen has YET has 5,080 more passing yards, 53 more passing TDs, 12 fewer INTs and 307 more 1st downs.

All of that in only 2 more games. pic.twitter.com/7hRWAJMAdz

— ����‼️ (@LanceTHESPOKEN) November 16, 2022