I'm changing my stripes. I have a new plan for the defensive line.

[Chris Meck]

I say we keep Jonesy, and we load up on DT.

Give me D'aron Payne. Then bring back Saunders and Williams for run downs.

Give me a Smoot, and maybe a Clelin Ferrell reclamation project.

Let's crush the pocket from the middle out.

I'm watching Burrow, and Brady, and the games yesterday, and...man, guys get the ball out QUICK except for Mahomes. Your ends just aren't going to get there fast enough unless you have truly elite speed rushers.

But if you had Payne and Jones; you can't double them both. One of them is getting a one on one and will be in the QB's face immediately.

Then you can go with bigger power rushers outside for containment.

Maybe this is the way.

[poolboy]

totally agree with this, more good pocket pushers available where we draft than game changing edge rushers...

[Stryker]

This is the way.

[kccrow]

Da'Ron Payne is going to get the franchise tag, there's no doubt about it. I'm not trading two 1sts for it.

You might be able to get Dre'Mont Jones, although he isn't quite the pocket crusher Payne is and then you have the issue of him actually functioning as a NT when they do run the ball because he's only 285 pounds. That said, it's a passing league, so take your lumps on the ground but I don't think you take your lumps to the point can be detrimental because teams won't stop running it down your throat.

Maybe you look very seriously at a guy like Gervon Dexter, who I think has the potential to develop into a guy, earlier than you normally would in the Draft. Or a Jaquelin Roy if he declares.

As for ends, I think speed is the key on the edge. Crush the inside with good DTs then eliminate rolling out with as much speed as you can get on the outside. It's why I'm a big fan of Felix Anudike-Uzomah and Will McDonald.

[Buehler445]

Bring the pain.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Da'Ron Payne is going to get the franchise tag, there's no doubt about it. I'm not trading two 1sts for it.

You might be able to get Dre'Mont Jones, although he isn't quite the pocket crusher Payne is and then you have the issue of him actually functioning as a NT when they do run the ball because he's only 285 pounds. That said, it's a passing league, so take your lumps on the ground but I don't think you take your lumps to the point can be detrimental because teams won't stop running it down your throat.

Maybe you look very seriously at a guy like Gervon Dexter, who I think has the potential to develop into a guy, earlier than you normally would in the Draft. Or a Jaquelin Roy if he declares.

As for ends, I think speed is the key on the edge. Crush the inside with good DTs then eliminate rolling out with as much speed as you can get on the outside. It's why I'm a big fan of Felix Anudike-Uzomah and Will McDonald.

If they tag Payne, I kinda wonder if you could trade a 2 for Sweat?

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Da'Ron Payne is going to get the franchise tag, there's no doubt about it. I'm not trading two 1sts for it.

You might be able to get Dre'Mont Jones, although he isn't quite the pocket crusher Payne is and then you have the issue of him actually functioning as a NT when they do run the ball because he's only 285 pounds. That said, it's a passing league, so take your lumps on the ground but I don't think you take your lumps to the point can be detrimental because teams won't stop running it down your throat.

Maybe you look very seriously at a guy like Gervon Dexter, who I think has the potential to develop into a guy, earlier than you normally would in the Draft. Or a Jaquelin Roy if he declares.

As for ends, I think speed is the key on the edge. Crush the inside with good DTs then eliminate rolling out with as much speed as you can get on the outside. It's why I'm a big fan of Felix Anudike-Uzomah and Will McDonald.

Don't they have to deal with like three big contracts on that line?

and as far as speed at edge, yeah, well we're not getting that at #30ish. So it's Ngakoue or bust in FA.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Don't they have to deal with like three big contracts on that line?

and as far as speed at edge, yeah, well we're not getting that at #30ish. So it's Ngakoue or bust in FA.

I think you can absolutely get speed at DE at 30, you just might get much more than that. That's fine IMO. Hopefully Karlaftis next year sets a decent edge consistently, that seems plausible. Get a NT in FA or the draft and that's already 3/4s of the way to plugging the run. Then get an Omenihu for pass-rush, draft another speed merchant and you're away. Grab a lump DE later in the draft for more containment.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I say we keep Jonesy, and we load up on DT.

Give me D'aron Payne. Then bring back Saunders and Williams for run downs.

Give me a Smoot, and maybe a Clelin Ferrell reclamation project.

Let's crush the pocket from the middle out.

I'm watching Burrow, and Brady, and the games yesterday, and...man, guys get the ball out QUICK except for Mahomes. Your ends just aren't going to get there fast enough unless you have truly elite speed rushers.

But if you had Payne and Jones; you can't double them both. One of them is getting a one on one and will be in the QB's face immediately.

Then you can go with bigger power rushers outside for containment.

Maybe this is the way.

You still need speed rushers on the end because without them, QBs can simply drop deeper, not worry about the DE running the arc and in effect neutralize the interior rush.

We just don't present any sort of threat to run the arc so QBs can settle back into that deeper area on their drop and wait.

We need at least one speed rusher that can challenge the arc.

[O.city]

Go get a dude at DE.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Da'Ron Payne is going to get the franchise tag, there's no doubt about it. I'm not trading two 1sts for it.

You might be able to get Dre'Mont Jones, although he isn't quite the pocket crusher Payne is and then you have the issue of him actually functioning as a NT when they do run the ball because he's only 285 pounds. That said, it's a passing league, so take your lumps on the ground but I don't think you take your lumps to the point can be detrimental because teams won't stop running it down your throat.

Maybe you look very seriously at a guy like Gervon Dexter, who I think has the potential to develop into a guy, earlier than you normally would in the Draft. Or a Jaquelin Roy if he declares.

As for ends, I think speed is the key on the edge. Crush the inside with good DTs then eliminate rolling out with as much speed as you can get on the outside. It's why I'm a big fan of Felix Anudike-Uzomah and Will McDonald.

I think the Commanders ARE a team that makes sense as a trade partner. They have a lot of defensive line talent that are ripe for extensions and can't keep them all. They're all-in on Allen, it looks like they're all-in on Payne, and they have two DEs coming up for extensions now/next year, too.

I also look at that team, its head coach, and think it might be a team for which Orlando Brown Jr. makes sense at T.

Is there a path here that involves swapping Orlando Brown Jr. and some draft capital for whichever DL they are not committing to long term (Payne? Sweat?).

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Don't they have to deal with like three big contracts on that line?

and as far as speed at edge, yeah, well we're not getting that at #30ish. So it's Ngakoue or bust in FA.

They do but they'll be offset.

Payne is due this year, Sweat next, and Young the year after. If Young doesn't get healthy and start looking like the player he was supposed to be, they may not have to worry about him.

They'll be mostly through Payne's next deal until he money got too damned bad and they should end up with a rookie QB to make up for it.

Edit: That said, see below... I forgot to quote both of you.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I think the Commanders ARE a team that makes sense as a trade partner. They have a lot of defensive line talent that are ripe for extensions and can't keep them all. They're all-in on Allen, it looks like they're all-in on Payne, and they have two DEs coming up for extensions now/next year, too.

I also look at that team, its head coach, and think it might be a team for which Orlando Brown Jr. makes sense at T.

Is there a path here that involves swapping Orlando Brown Jr. and some draft capital for whichever DL they are not committing to long term (Payne? Sweat?).

It's a tough decision for them. I don't think Sweat breaks the bank too bad. He's a really solid end but I don't think he's a "plus" end that gets into the 20+ range. 15-17 per, probably. If I'm going there, why not try to swing for Ngakoue and not spend a pick/player on anything?

Could they trade Payne? Absolutely. They SHOULD trade him and they likely will. They are still going to have to tag him to trade him, so we can't just waltz in there and sign him. We also probably shouldn't make the trade unless it is a player swap. My opinion is that it's going to take a 1st even if they have no intention to keep him around, which I'd assume is the case since they drafted Phidarian Mathis at 47 last year.

If they take OBJ for Payne if they both get tagged? Yeah, make it happen.

If they let him walk? Oh yeah, I'm 100% all-in at that point. Go get that monster.

[O.city]

I dunno that I'd go with Payne and Jones and look for another DE.

I'd keep swinging on the interior and go find a DE.

[O.city]

If you could tag and trade OBJ to them for Sweat, man, I'd make that deal in a second.