JuJu to Kansas City

[Dante84]

#ChiefsKingdom Let’s Go!

— JuJu Smith-Schuster (@TeamJuJu) March 18, 2022

JuJu Smith-Schuster is getting a one-year, $10.75M deal with the Chiefs, per source.

— Field Yates (@FieldYates) March 18, 2022

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

If we're paying top of the market, then we won't be winning 3 rings with huge, gaping holes at OT and DE.

We're the ****ing #1 offense in football as it stands. Better play up front > #1 WR.

No, we don't have time to run WASP.

Originally Posted by RealSNR

Keep drafting them. **** paying these prices for the position

Yep thats where I'm at... we're already #1 with what we have

And yes, by all means keep drafting receivers and we will find a true #1 soon enough

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by Easy 6

Yep thats where I'm at... we're already #1 with what we have

And yes, by all means keep drafting receivers and we will find a true #1 soon enough

A huge reason why Philly is so good is that they are stout on both lines. Zero doubts that if Mahomes had both he would be undefeated, and he wouldn’t have needed Smith and AJ Brown.

Three most important positions on the field.

1. The QB (who we have the best).

2. The guy who protects the QB’s blindside (ours is questionable).

3. The guy who pressures the QB (which KC struggles with).

An elite WR would be amazing, but it’s an unnecessary luxury if you haven’t adequately addressed #2 and #3. Mahomes has shown this year he can still thrive with lesser skill players around him. He will continue to do so if he stays upright and isn’t in a shootout every week because the defense can’t get stops due to lack of pressure.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

If we paid for Hopkins, we'd have...

the slightly more oneish offense than the number one offense we have?

I mean, is that really the best allocation of resources?

No. That's stupid.

Whenever Mahomes and the offense don't have their heads up their asses, they move the ball and score at will. There is no problem other than the times when they just sort of lose focus and screw up.

Now, defensively? Huge hole at DE. Not in position to typically draft one. That's an expensive position to fill in free agency.

Offensive tackle? Well, it would be nice to keep Mahomes upright, and it would be nice to be able to run the ball more effectively. Not typically in position to draft a LT, but probably to draft a RT.

Got a Juju situation to figure out. Got a LT situation. and a RT situation. And a DE situation. Who we paying, who's walking?

And you guys want to pay top of the market for a WR?

No, man.

Draft and develop.

Hill had 11.2 ypc last year. Have you forgotten?

What's Juju's average this year? 11.9

He's literally MORE PRODUCTIVE per catch than Hill was last year.

How about we fill the gaping holes and quit worrying about Deandre Hopkins?

Well, I did say use DHop as an example, not as the sole solution.

However, if we acquired DHop (or someone very similar), then we don't need MVS, Hardman, and probably even JJSS. That's probably well more than $30M off the books ($40M?), and DHop would cost maybe $20M?

And I'm not considering yds/cth. I'm considering 1v1 matchups in the playoffs against the best DBs the league has to offer. That's the issue a WR like DHop can solve, that none of those other WRs can.

Pivot: DHop doesn't have an injury history. he's missed 14 games in his entire career, 6 of those this year due to a suspension, one because HOU decided to rest him before the playoffs. He's missed just 8 games due to injury in his ten year career.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Well, I did say use DHop as an example, not as the sole solution.

However, if we acquired DHop (or someone very similar), then we don't need MVS, Hardman, and probably even JJSS. That's probably well more than $30M off the books ($40M?), and DHop would cost maybe $20M?

And I'm not considering yds/cth. I'm considering 1v1 matchups in the playoffs against the best DBs the league has to offer. That's the issue a WR like DHop can solve, that none of those other WRs can.

Pivot: DHop doesn't have an injury history. he's missed 14 games in his entire career, 6 of those this year due to a suspension, one because HOU decided to rest him before the playoffs. He's missed just 8 games due to injury in his ten year career.

One issue Mahomes had last year was his dependence on Hill. Bring in Hopkins and you risk that again. Give me solid if not unspectacular WRs vs one elite one and a bunch of scrubs any day (not counting Kelce in this at all). Mahomes is a better QB because of this year then any year prior.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Well, I did say use DHop as an example, not as the sole solution.

However, if we acquired DHop (or someone very similar), then we don't need MVS, Hardman, and probably even JJSS. That's probably well more than $30M off the books ($40M?), and DHop would cost maybe $20M?

And I'm not considering yds/cth. I'm considering 1v1 matchups in the playoffs against the best DBs the league has to offer. That's the issue a WR like DHop can solve, that none of those other WRs can.

Pivot: DHop doesn't have an injury history. he's missed 14 games in his entire career, 6 of those this year due to a suspension, one because HOU decided to rest him before the playoffs. He's missed just 8 games due to injury in his ten year career.

Dude, if we take all of those other players off the table, we have the 2021 Chiefs offense again, which as you'll remember, was not as good as this one.

This one hums because the ball can go anywhere. You take every other credible threat off the table besides a #1 WR and Kelce, and we're right back to where we started.

I don't know why, even with nearly a full season's worth of evidence you can't see that THIS IS BETTER.

The only thing that ever stops this offense is dropped passes and just poor execution.

No, no, no, no. Stars and scrubs won us ONE SB, and cost us another.

Mahomes plus best 52 gives us a shot every year for a decade or more.

And in the play-offs, if they want to just 'man up' on our WRs, we'll eat them alive with Mckinnon in the flat for eleventy billion yards and a bunch of TD's, which was Andy's calling card when Philly was rolling.

We're good, man. Just keep filling holes every offseason and enjoy the ride. WR1 is not a hole.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by tredadda

One issue Mahomes had last year was his dependence on Hill. Bring in Hopkins and you risk that again. Give me solid if not unspectacular WRs vs one elite one and a bunch of scrubs any day (not counting Kelce in this at all). Mahomes is a better QB because of this year then any year prior.

Okay, guys, again, it doesn't have to be DHop; it was merely an example.

And, I get it. But i think we're also forgetting just how many times Mahomes has had to manufacture minor miracles this year, several times while in the grasp of some defender, just to convert a 1st down or whatever, because our cadre of "JAG" or scrub receivers (less than top-echelon) couldn't get open early. Is it rational to keep expecting that to work every time? Wouldn't it be easier to have another top-tier option besides Kelce, like when we had Hill and Watkins?

I mean, we've seen how the formula of having a bunch of middling receivers works out in the playoffs with Aaron Rodgers and GB all those years. Good enough to keep getting into the playoffs, but not good enough to execute against the best defenses.

Personally, if it's workable, I want Pat to always have the best WR talent available, so he only has to come up with miracles a couple times in the playoffs, not several times in every game, because that's just not sustainable.

[Chief Roundup]

What is the definition you all are using gor a #1 WR? There can be a huge discrepancy in that definition. There are not 32 true #1 WR in the league. Seems most are wanting a top 5 to 10 WR. That is going to be costly when we need a LT and DE more than a #1 WR for starters.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

What is the definition you all are using gor a #1 WR? There can be a huge discrepancy in that definition. There are not 32 true #1 WR in the league. Seems most are wanting a top 5 to 10 WR. That is going to be costly when we need a LT and DE more than a #1 WR for starters.

Something like top 15. Just guessing, as I haven't bothered to look this season at a ranked list of the top WRs.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Okay, guys, again, it doesn't have to be DHop; it was merely an example.

And, I get it. But i think we're also forgetting just how many times Mahomes has had to manufacture minor miracles this year, several times while in the grasp of some defender, just to convert a 1st down or whatever, because our cadre of "JAG" or scrub receivers (less than top-echelon) couldn't get open early. Is it rational to keep expecting that to work every time? Wouldn't it be easier to have another top-tier option besides Kelce, like when we had Hill and Watkins?

I mean, we've seen how the formula of having a bunch of middling receivers works out in the playoffs with Aaron Rodgers and GB all those years. Good enough to keep getting into the playoffs, but not good enough to execute against the best defenses.

Personally, if it's workable, I want Pat to always have the best WR talent available, so he only has to come up with miracles a couple times in the playoffs, not several times in every game, because that's just not sustainable.

Sure, I see those things and I think:
1)Jesus Wylie sucks
2)Brown wants how much money!?
3)Dude, Mckinnon's open right there!
4)Why the **** did we drop so many passes? This shouldn't even be necessary.
5)If our defense was better, it wouldn't be.

Green Bay's problem was that they often drafted poorly, and flat refused to get involved in free agency. That's a bad mix. And yet, Rodgers still had them in contention late into the play-offs. That's only a warning example if we draft like shit and completely ignore gaping holes, which I don't think Veach will. If anything, he's shown himself to be OVER aggressive at filling holes.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Something like top 15. Just guessing, as I haven't bothered to look this season at a ranked list of the top WRs.

I would rather sign Juju at 15-18m than Hopkins. Juju already knows this offense and has played well.
Hopkins is older, coming off an injury, and doesn't know this offense at all. Who knows if that's a good fit?

Pay the guy we know. Juju is 1b here, Kelce is 1a. That's totally fine. fill in speed guys and develop Toney, Moore and possibly Ross plus draft a guy every year and roll on.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I would rather sign Juju at 15-18m than Hopkins. Juju already knows this offense and has played well.
Hopkins is older, coming off an injury, and doesn't know this offense at all. Who knows if that's a good fit?

Pay the guy we know. Juju is 1b here, Kelce is 1a. That's totally fine. fill in speed guys and develop Toney, Moore and possibly Ross plus draft a guy every year and roll on.

Dang it, Chris, it doesn't have to be DHop!

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Dang it, Chris, it doesn't have to be DHop!

doesn't matter, I'm not for spending that cap space on ANY OF THEM.

Nope. NOPE. cue Danny Devito meme.

We're going to have to pay an EDGE. That's expensive.

We're going to have to pay a LT, one way or the other, and that's expensive.

We simply cannot afford to overlook those spots in favor of what would amount to a slight upgrade at WR. It's simply not a good allocation of resources.

We're going to have to develop our future there, much like we have done at CB this offseason. (the other really expensive position.)

It'd be different if we didn't have these real weaknesses at DE, both OT spots. I'd re-sign Juju if he's reasonable with his demands, but other than that, NOPE. And I'd probably go ahead and let MVS go, save that $10m to pay Juju. I think we can find a speed guy with suspect hands for less.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Okay, guys, again, it doesn't have to be DHop; it was merely an example.

And, I get it. But i think we're also forgetting just how many times Mahomes has had to manufacture minor miracles this year, several times while in the grasp of some defender, just to convert a 1st down or whatever, because our cadre of "JAG" or scrub receivers (less than top-echelon) couldn't get open early. Is it rational to keep expecting that to work every time? Wouldn't it be easier to have another top-tier option besides Kelce, like when we had Hill and Watkins?

I mean, we've seen how the formula of having a bunch of middling receivers works out in the playoffs with Aaron Rodgers and GB all those years. Good enough to keep getting into the playoffs, but not good enough to execute against the best defenses.

Personally, if it's workable, I want Pat to always have the best WR talent available, so he only has to come up with miracles a couple times in the playoffs, not several times in every game, because that's just not sustainable.

I see your point but the problem is that Mahomes has to manufacture miracles not because receivers can’t get open, but because we have two of the worst starting tackles in the league. Elite WRs are a luxury no doubt but players like Hopkins (just had to insert that) are more necessary on teams with young developing QBs or middling QBs. Elite WRs are expensive and even more so after this last offseason. They are a luxury teams with elite QBs can’t afford without sacrificing other areas. Plus if your elite WR goes down to injuries you are in an even worse spot as the others around him are JAGs at best. I would still rather have a bunch of #2 WRs than a dominant #1 and a bunch of #3 or #4 WRs. Also QBs tend to focus a lot more on their #1 WR and sometimes to their detriment. Mahomes is guilty of that as well. Having no true #1 WR has forced him to be a better QB and not just “F-it Tyreek down there somewhere” QB.

Rodgers also had Adams and still struggled in the playoffs. That’s as much on Rodgers as anything else. Having a true #1 WR did not change that. I am no fan of Brady and do not think he is the GOAT, but I will say that for most of his career he did not have true #1 WRs in NE (Moss being the only one that comes to mind) yet his teams were still dominating because they had elite defenses and his OLine kept him upright. Mahomes can and will thrive with lesser WRs if he is not under pressure all the time. I think a true elite #1 WR with a true franchise QB is not sustainable in this salary cap era.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by tredadda

I think a true elite #1 WR with a true franchise QB is not sustainable in this salary cap era.

This is it right there. That's the whole deal. The only way we're going to have an elite WR in the near future is if we draft and develop one. Period. And we'll have him until it's time to pay him, and then we'll let someone else do that.

And that's fine, as long as we protect Mahomes, and beef up our pass rush.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by tredadda

I see your point but the problem is that Mahomes has to manufacture miracles not because receivers can’t get open, but because we have two of the worst starting tackles in the league. Elite WRs are a luxury no doubt but players like Hopkins (just had to insert that) are more necessary on teams with young developing QBs or middling QBs. Elite WRs are expensive and even more so after this last offseason. They are a luxury teams with elite QBs can’t afford without sacrificing other areas. Plus if your elite WR goes down to injuries you are in an even worse spot as the others around him are JAGs at best. I would still rather have a bunch of #2 WRs than a dominant #1 and a bunch of #3 or #4 WRs. Also QBs tend to focus a lot more on their #1 WR and sometimes to their detriment. Mahomes is guilty of that as well. Having no true #1 WR has forced him to be a better QB and not just “F-it Tyreek down there somewhere” QB.

Rodgers also had Adams and still struggled in the playoffs. That’s as much on Rodgers as anything else. Having a true #1 WR did not change that. I am no fan of Brady and do not think he is the GOAT, but I will say that for most of his career he did not have true #1 WRs in NE (Moss being the only one that comes to mind) yet his teams were still dominating because they had elite defenses and his OLine kept him upright. Mahomes can and will thrive with lesser WRs if he is not under pressure all the time. I think a true elite #1 WR with a true franchise QB is not sustainable in this salary cap era.

By point:

It's actually been a mixture of both. Guys weren't getting open early, and we have two of the worst OTs in football doing their best imitations of a turnstile. But if you have one top-tier (not necessarily elite) WR1, he probably gets open before our less-than-top-tier Ts pants themselves, and Mahomes can make a relatively easy throw, instead of running around trying to make something out of nothing while some guy is draped around his neck. just saying.

We'd still have Skyy and Toney, and one of these guys is going to show out next season, maybe both. Whatever; they're both far better than the troupe of JAGs we had last season. Add in maybe J. Watson, maaaybe Ross? Plus whichever WR we draft . . . still better backups than what we had in 2021.

Brady's 1 and 2 were actually Gronk and Edelman. Or Welker before Edelman. Though NE was really unstoppable for a hot minute when they had both Gronk and Aaron Hernandez shredding defenses in the middle. But that's just trivia. Ftr, I can see either Skyy or Toney taking up the Edelman/Welker role for the Chiefs next season and beyond.

And what is it going to cost to have both MVS and JJSS next season? JJSS is probably going to be more expensive than MVS, so say $15-$18M? Plus MVS' $10M? So $25M-$28M/yr? How is it we can't afford to trade/cut/whatever those guys and bring in a guy that costs $20M/yr that does both their jobs better than they can? Well, probably not the absolute speed part, but everything else.