JuJu to Kansas City

[Dante84]

#ChiefsKingdom Let’s Go!

— JuJu Smith-Schuster (@TeamJuJu) March 18, 2022

JuJu Smith-Schuster is getting a one-year, $10.75M deal with the Chiefs, per source.

— Field Yates (@FieldYates) March 18, 2022

[Chargem]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Yeah, I get that we have to fill some big holes on the team. But what's it going to cost to keep both MVS and JJSS? What if we could get DHop (since we keep bringing him up) for $20M/yr? That'd be cheaper, right? And we'd get better value at the position, except in terms of raw speed. But otherwise we'd get great-to-elite route running, catch radius, hands, situational awareness, etc. and pay $5M-$10M less per year (maybe).

Is that not a viable option?

Deandre Hopkins for $20m or JJSS & MVS for $20m, I think I would prefer Hopkins, but I don't think he is THAT much better than JJSS, especially when you account for age and likelihood to decline.

But its really a false argument, Hopkins is not a free agent next year and he is currently making $27m per year average. So the real equivalent would be JJSS & MVS & a 2nd round pick & ~5m of cap, or Deandre Hopkins. That starts to look like a terrible option for Hopkins then.

I know, I know, you didn't just mean Hopkins. But is there a wide receiver out there in 2023 who is better than JJSS straight up and wouldn't also cost a high draft pick?

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by hometeam

MVS is on a 3 year, so hes already accounted for. To go with that, we wouldnt miss him. Hes caught 37 balls this year, and dropped 37 more. Hes a JAG.

It's a manageable cap hit to cut MVS if they want to.

I think I might well do that, honestly, and use some of that money to bring back Juju, who's been very good, in my opinion.

I know everyone feels like we need a true #1, but I'll just say that Juju is averaging 11.9 yards per catch, and last year Hill was at what, 11.2? So the deeper, less top heavy WR corps concept is actually working. As a whole, the offense is more explosive.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Chargem

Deandre Hopkins for $20m or JJSS & MVS for $20m, I think I would prefer Hopkins, but I don't think he is THAT much better than JJSS, especially when you account for age and likelihood to decline.

But its really a false argument, Hopkins is not a free agent next year and he is currently making $27m per year average. So the real equivalent would be JJSS & MVS & a 2nd round pick & ~5m of cap, or Deandre Hopkins. That starts to look like a terrible option for Hopkins then.

I know, I know, you didn't just mean Hopkins. But is there a wide receiver out there in 2023 who is better than JJSS straight up and wouldn't also cost a high draft pick?

If we don't win the Super Bowl, it won't be because Juju isn't good enough.

It might be because Brown and/or Wylie isn't.
It might be because Frank Clark, Dunlap, Danna, Nnadi, etc aren't.


Or it might be because we fumble it away, or throw dumb interceptions, or Butker melts down or something.

I think we should concentrate on THOSE things this offseason, and not marginal improvements over areas in which we are in good shape.

Mahomes plus Best 52.

[Chargem]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

If we don't win the Super Bowl, it won't be because Juju isn't good enough.

It might be because Brown and/or Wylie isn't.
It might be because Frank Clark, Dunlap, Danna, Nnadi, etc aren't.


Or it might be because we fumble it away, or throw dumb interceptions, or Butker melts down or something.

I think we should concentrate on THOSE things this offseason, and not marginal improvements over areas in which we are in good shape.

Mahomes plus Best 52.

I almost perfectly agree with you, I would phrase my take a little differently, more like this:

There are lots of position groups where there is value in paying big money contracts to the right player. QB, LT, WR, CB, Pass Rusher.

No one can build a superbowl championship roster by going premium contract/player at all these positions, the cap stops that.

When looking at the Chiefs roster and needs, it seems like a much better use of resources to spend the available cash on needs other than WR (T and DE, for example).

Spending big cash on a WR and getting a 3rd round tackle who turns out to be a pro bowler could work, but spending the cash on a tackle and hoping for a 3rd round WR to boost the offense is the better approach for the Chiefs.

People on here thinking there is cash for a top 5 WR, and a top 5 LT, and a top 5 DE just want the Chiefs to borrow from the future cap to win now, which seems like a short sighted approach, even if there were top 5 players available at all these positions.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by -King-

Yeah this is BS. It's all about resource allocation. Again, we're paying MVS and Frank Clark $30+ mil whether there they're on the team or not in 2022 and 2023. $46mil if you include OBJ. All that for barely above average production. You can pay a true #1 WR with that money.

Terry McLaurin signed a 3 year 68mil contract in the in the offseason that's actually a 3 year $53mil contract. Would you rather have Terry McLaurin for 3 years 53 million or MVS, OBJ, and Frank Clark for 2 years $46+mil? Or 3 years $58mil for Dk Metcalf.

Cool, you freed up Clark and Brown Jr’s salaries. Now replace those players. Who are you getting and how much will they cost? Easy to cut their salaries in a bubble and say “Look at all this money we saved and have to spend!”. You replacing them through the draft? You confident both can start as rookies and play well? If not you have to replace them first before making it rain for a true #1 WR even if MVS is wildly overpaid. I also didn’t even mention replacing Wylie as well.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Chargem

People on here thinking there is cash for a top 5 WR, and a top 5 LT, and a top 5 DE just want the Chiefs to borrow from the future cap to win now, which seems like a short sighted approach, even if there were top 5 players available at all these positions.

EXACTLY.

We're the #1 offense in football as it stands. We've shown we can get it done with solid but unspectacular WR's.

Let's shore up the trenches, protect Patrick, and draft and develop.

We should not ever mortgage the future in Patrick's tenure. You have a legit shot every season. Make 'em all count.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by -King-

Yeah this is BS. It's all about resource allocation. Again, we're paying MVS and Frank Clark $30+ mil whether there they're on the team or not in 2022 and 2023. $46mil if you include OBJ. All that for barely above average production. You can pay a true #1 WR with that money.

Terry McLaurin signed a 3 year 68mil contract in the in the offseason that's actually a 3 year $53mil contract. Would you rather have Terry McLaurin for 3 years 53 million or MVS, OBJ, and Frank Clark for 2 years $46+mil? Or 3 years $58mil for Dk Metcalf.

And what's your plan for LT and DE? And you're rolling with Wylie again at RT?

And so you're not bringing Juju back, so that means you're rolling with Metcalf and Kelce? And Hill had 11.2 ypc in '21 as a #1 WR here with just him and Kelce so you want to do that again, despite the fact that this offense as it stands is MORE explosive than last year's?

But how explosive will it be with gaping holes at both OT spots-I mean you've allocated nothing to that. And nothing at DE, so the defense will be worse than this year's.

If you think you're getting an upgrade at LT or DE at #30ish, you're mistaken. You'll have to allocate funds to improve these other positions.

No, it's not bullshit.

If this team doesn't win the Super Bowl, it will NOT be because we don't have Metcalf. It might be because we can't rush the passer consistently without blitzing. It might be because we can't block EDGE rushers because our OT's aren't good enough. It might be because we fumble it away, or Mahomes gets impatient and throws some picks. But it won't be because we don't have Metcalf.

Mahomes plus best 52.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by tredadda

Cool, you freed up Clark and Brown Jr’s salaries. Now replace those players. Who are you getting and how much will they cost? Easy to cut their salaries in a bubble and say “Look at all this money we saved and have to spend!”. You replacing them through the draft? You confident both can start as rookies and play well? If not you have to replace them first before making it rain for a true #1 WR even if MVS is wildly overpaid. I also didn’t even mention replacing Wylie as well.

Yeah I don't think replacing below average to barely above average players who are well overpaid is too much of an issue. You don't think there are a bunch of players doing what they do for much less?

[-King-]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

And what's your plan for LT and DE? And you're rolling with Wylie again at RT?

And so you're not bringing Juju back, so that means you're rolling with Metcalf and Kelce? And Hill had 11.2 ypc in '21 as a #1 WR here with just him and Kelce so you want to do that again, despite the fact that this offense as it stands is MORE explosive than last year's?

But how explosive will it be with gaping holes at both OT spots-I mean you've allocated nothing to that. And nothing at DE, so the defense will be worse than this year's.

If you think you're getting an upgrade at LT or DE at #30ish, you're mistaken. You'll have to allocate funds to improve these other positions.

No, it's not bullshit.

If this team doesn't win the Super Bowl, it will NOT be because we don't have Metcalf. It might be because we can't rush the passer consistently without blitzing. It might be because we can't block EDGE rushers because our OT's aren't good enough. It might be because we fumble it away, or Mahomes gets impatient and throws some picks. But it won't be because we don't have Metcalf.

Mahomes plus best 52.

So you think replacing MVS, Frank Clark, and OBJ is some insurmountable task?

I don't get defending overpaying below average to average players, but paying elite players market rate is some big no no. At least those players are producing to their salary level.

And why do you think paying a guy like Dk would suddenly leave us unable to find an LT and DE through the draft, FA, or trade?

[Chargem]

Originally Posted by -King-

So you think replacing MVS, Frank Clark, and OBJ is some insurmountable task?

I don't get defending overpaying below average to average players, but paying elite players market rate is some big no no. At least those players are producing to their salary level.

And why do you think paying a guy like Dk would suddenly leave us unable to find an LT and DE through the draft, FA, or trade?

Replacing the current production of MVS, Clark and OBJ I would say is very easy. They are all JAG level though, I would want to significantly exceed their production, and that would not be cheap.

I would have the same response to the DK question as the Hopkins one. DK vs JJSS/MVS for the same amount of money, sure I would take DK. But DK isn't available in FA next year, so bit of a moot point.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by Chargem

Replacing the current production of MVS, Clark and OBJ I would say is very easy. They are all JAG level though, I would want to significantly exceed their production, and that would not be cheap.

I would have the same response to the DK question as the Hopkins one. DK vs JJSS/MVS for the same amount of money, sure I would take DK. But DK isn't available in FA next year, so bit of a moot point.

Again, I was replying to him saying that we shouldn't pay a WR that we drafted and should let some other team pay him.

[RINGLEADER]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

EXACTLY.

We're the #1 offense in football as it stands. We've shown we can get it done with solid but unspectacular WR's.

Let's shore up the trenches, protect Patrick, and draft and develop.

We should not ever mortgage the future in Patrick's tenure. You have a legit shot every season. Make 'em all count.

We’re not mortgaging the future. We can easily get to $60 million to $100 million in cap space with a handful of moves. We have good young players capable of starting at many positions — this goes to your point about the draft — and I’m sure we’ll continue to build depth in the draft. But we also will have holes at LT, RT, WR, and DE. I hope we spend the cap surplus we’re going to have with vets at those positions and also hope we’re able to fill one or two of those spots with draft picks that can fill one or two of those spots.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by -King-

So you think replacing MVS, Frank Clark, and OBJ is some insurmountable task?

I don't get defending overpaying below average to average players, but paying elite players market rate is some big no no. At least those players are producing to their salary level.

And why do you think paying a guy like Dk would suddenly leave us unable to find an LT and DE through the draft, FA, or trade?

1)no, it's not insurmountable, but it will cost significant cap dollars and/or draft resources. It's much more likely we have to pay at LT and DE, and draft to replace Wylie, as RT is a spot we might be able to fill at #30ish.

2)I don't defend overpaying below average to average players. I don't think MVS has proven to be worth his $10m, but I think Juju has proven himself to be a guy I'd like to see back again. His ypc is 11.9, by the way. Hill's last year? 11.2. So that's what a #1wr plus a bunch of JAGS gets you. We're literally BETTER just having 3 or 4 viable options than Kelce + a true #1wr.

3)paying a Metcalf, or a Hopkins, will not move the needle for this offense when you consider that it means no Juju, or MVS if you wanted to keep him. So you're back to JAGS plus one great WR. We saw last year what that does. This is better, by any measure you want to look at. Statistically, it's clearly better.
Additionally, it does handi-cap our ability to fill the LT, RT, and DE positions. We pick too late to be able to count on quality LT's or DE's in the draft. That means we'll have to pay them, and an average LT will cost you $15m plus, a quality DE will cost you at minimum $15m (Ngakoue's cap figure this year). So yeah, that's $30m MINIMUM to fill those positions, LT probably a wash, but pass rush probably improved. This is with no Juju, No MVS, and forces you to draft an OT in round one pretty much or be screwed at RT again. Wylie blows goats.

Toney, if he could stay healthy, moves the needle, but he hasn't proven he can do that. Hardman is a FA. Moore hasn't proven anything. You've got nothing proven if you let Juju and MVS walk and sign a Metcalf or a Hopkins.

And we're the #1 offense in the NFL. Why in the world wouldn't you prefer to fill the obvious holes rather than reverse course and handicap yourself everywhere else? It's dumb.

I think some of this is guys that look at fantasy football stats and not actual football.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by RINGLEADER

We’re not mortgaging the future. We can easily get to $60 million to $100 million in cap space with a handful of moves. We have good young players capable of starting at many positions — this goes to your point about the draft — and I’m sure we’ll continue to build depth in the draft. But we also will have holes at LT, RT, WR, and DE. I hope we spend the cap surplus we’re going to have with vets at those positions and also hope we’re able to fill one or two of those spots with draft picks that can fill one or two of those spots.

Show me how we get to those numbers without pushing money forward.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by -King-

Again, I was replying to him saying that we shouldn't pay a WR that we drafted and should let some other team pay him.

what are you talking about?