JuJu to Kansas City

[Dante84]

#ChiefsKingdom Let’s Go!

— JuJu Smith-Schuster (@TeamJuJu) March 18, 2022

JuJu Smith-Schuster is getting a one-year, $10.75M deal with the Chiefs, per source.

— Field Yates (@FieldYates) March 18, 2022

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by -King-

I get it. But it's not like MVS really gives us those big plays like Gabriel does so the trade off isn't really there. Gabriel has more touchdowns in his 3 yr career than MVS does in his 6 year career.

He's giving us what Chark gives Detroit except Chark did it with 250 less snaps and a worse QB and coach.

But he does, though.

Gabriel Davis on throws of more than 20 yards:

22 targets, 9 receptions for 351 yards; 15.95 yds/route

MVS on throws of more than 20 yards:

19 targets, 10 receptions for 322 yards; 16.95 yds/route

Gabriel Davis on routes of 10-19 yards:

37 targets, 23 receptions for 365 yards; 9.86 yds/route

MVS on throws of 10-19 yards:

22 targets, 12 receptions for 213 yards; 9.68 Y/RR


Strictly as a deep ball receiver there have been few, if any, more efficient players in the NFL this year. And that's with Mahomes just flat-ass missing him and ADMITTING as such on at least 4 occasions that I can think of this year.

As a mid-range receiver they're damn near identical on a per snap basis.

From 20+, MVS is a little better. From 10-19, Davis is a little better. They've been EXTREMELY similar when you work from 10 yards out. And that's with Davis having a lot more experience with his QB while Mahomes is very clearly still working things out with MVS.

Davis has 5 drops on 83 targets; MVS has 5 drops on 70. So go ahead and 'credit' MVS with one more drop than Davis but recognize that MVS has 3 of his drops on short passes (2 for Davis) while Davis has 3 of his drops on intermediate balls (vs 2 for MVS) so his drops likely hurt more.

I'm not saying MVS is some kind of superstar out there - but I really don't think he's getting enough credit. I mean if when you start to stack the two guys up side by side, they've been VERY similar this year. And they've done it in extremely similar ways.

I do think, as you comb through the numbers a little, you can reasonably conclude that Davis has been better. But its only by a little bit. I mean at MOST 10% better. And when you start to consider how many times Mahomes just hasn't had MVS dialed in, I think there's a TON of room for improvement there that really has nothing to do with Marquez.

I really do think I'd prefer roll with Toney/MVS/Hardman/Moore than JJSS/Toney/Moore/Rookie. Screw it - at this point I don't even think I prefer that route - I know I do.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

I think there's a nice, fat, meaty bevy of players that fall between JJSS and Michael Irvin. I was "banging the table" (**** i hate that expression) for DJ Chark too. I wanted a trade for Metcalf bad. My love for Pickens is no secret.

I've been so entrenched on this position group for the past year because i feel like they're just one real perimeter threat away from reaching their true potential. ESPECIALLY with the emergence of Pacheco, the TE group and the addition of Toney.

No, DJ Chark isn't a super star. But damn if that's not the type of guy you take a flier on with that speed and that frame.

I believe you need a true man beater on the outside to really open things up for everyone else.

You can leave JJSS on an island with your top corner (or hell, even your #2) and feel pretty good about it as a DC.

To me, that's a problem.

I agree. Would like to know the stats but the one area we really never seem to hit is deep sideline balls. Just not in the playbook. I don't think it's Mahomes best throw and I agree with o city that his deep ball has been off, but damn we do not have a guy that can separate and make those tight catches.

I don't like JJSS or MVS I haven't from the start, but I can accept some arguments for keeping one. I'm not sure I buy the defence of MVS. As a field stretcher I honestly don't think he gets off press well enough. Couple that with the reduced time Mahomes has with these OTs and i just don't think he adds much value.

[O.city]

I’ll tell you who would make sense if they wanted to move him. I’d call Cleveland about amari

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

But he does, though.

Gabriel Davis on throws of more than 20 yards:

22 targets, 9 receptions for 351 yards; 15.95 yds/route

MVS on throws of more than 20 yards:

19 targets, 10 receptions for 322 yards; 16.95 yds/route

Gabriel Davis on routes of 10-19 yards:

37 targets, 23 receptions for 365 yards; 9.86 yds/route

MVS on throws of 10-19 yards:

22 targets, 12 receptions for 213 yards; 9.68 Y/RR


Strictly as a deep ball receiver there have been few, if any, more efficient players in the NFL this year. And that's with Mahomes just flat-ass missing him and ADMITTING as such on at least 4 occasions that I can think of this year.

As a mid-range receiver they're damn near identical on a per snap basis.

From 20+, MVS is a little better. From 10-19, Davis is a little better. They've been EXTREMELY similar when you work from 10 yards out. And that's with Davis having a lot more experience with his QB while Mahomes is very clearly still working things out with MVS.

Davis has 5 drops on 83 targets; MVS has 5 drops on 70. So go ahead and 'credit' MVS with one more drop than Davis but recognize that MVS has 3 of his drops on short passes (2 for Davis) while Davis has 3 of his drops on intermediate balls (vs 2 for MVS) so his drops likely hurt more.

I'm not saying MVS is some kind of superstar out there - but I really don't think he's getting enough credit. I mean if when you start to stack the two guys up side by side, they've been VERY similar this year. And they've done it in extremely similar ways.

I do think, as you comb through the numbers a little, you can reasonably conclude that Davis has been better. But its only by a little bit. I mean at MOST 10% better. And when you start to consider how many times Mahomes just hasn't had MVS dialed in, I think there's a TON of room for improvement there that really has nothing to do with Marquez.

I really do think I'd prefer roll with Toney/MVS/Hardman/Moore than JJSS/Toney/Moore/Rookie. Screw it - at this point I don't even think I prefer that route - I know I do.

I think a lot of people have a totally warped perspective of things due to mostly watching Chiefs football and not a whole lot of other teams.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Toney being on the roster kinda changes my feelings on how to attack the WR position going forward.

As of today, i'd like to see the WR room retain Hardman and replace JJSS with a 1st or 2nd round proto-type WR.

Again...we coulda done that during the last draft but...****, some day i'll get over it.

Just like last season....give me a 6-0" to 6-3" ish, 220lb WR that can run a 4.40-4.50 with a large catch radius and a knack for the difficult, spectacular catch. Someone who can be a physical presence and can bail out Mahomes on occasion. We need to draft and develop one of THOSE guys.

I’m confident that Veach knows that they won’t be able to afford to keep Hardman, this the trade for Toney. Some team in FA is gonna offer Hardman a lot bc of his speed.

I think the moment we trade for Toney pretty much solidified that Hardman isn’t coming back.

And again, Juju has been Patrick’s 2nd most reliable receiver after Kelce (if we’re not counting McKinnon as a RB). I think that has a lot of value. The guy came in here and had more of a connection and trust with Patrick than Mecole has had in his entire career.

I’m thinking the Chiefs top 4 WR next year will be MVS, Juju, Toney and Skyy with Watson back again (he’s cheap as hell) and another speed WR that’s added in the draft.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

But he does, though.

Gabriel Davis on throws of more than 20 yards:

22 targets, 9 receptions for 351 yards; 15.95 yds/route

MVS on throws of more than 20 yards:

19 targets, 10 receptions for 322 yards; 16.95 yds/route

Gabriel Davis on routes of 10-19 yards:

37 targets, 23 receptions for 365 yards; 9.86 yds/route

MVS on throws of 10-19 yards:

22 targets, 12 receptions for 213 yards; 9.68 Y/RR


Strictly as a deep ball receiver there have been few, if any, more efficient players in the NFL this year. And that's with Mahomes just flat-ass missing him and ADMITTING as such on at least 4 occasions that I can think of this year.

As a mid-range receiver they're damn near identical on a per snap basis.

From 20+, MVS is a little better. From 10-19, Davis is a little better. They've been EXTREMELY similar when you work from 10 yards out. And that's with Davis having a lot more experience with his QB while Mahomes is very clearly still working things out with MVS.

Davis has 5 drops on 83 targets; MVS has 5 drops on 70. So go ahead and 'credit' MVS with one more drop than Davis but recognize that MVS has 3 of his drops on short passes (2 for Davis) while Davis has 3 of his drops on intermediate balls (vs 2 for MVS) so his drops likely hurt more.

I'm not saying MVS is some kind of superstar out there - but I really don't think he's getting enough credit. I mean if when you start to stack the two guys up side by side, they've been VERY similar this year. And they've done it in extremely similar ways.

I do think, as you comb through the numbers a little, you can reasonably conclude that Davis has been better. But its only by a little bit. I mean at MOST 10% better. And when you start to consider how many times Mahomes just hasn't had MVS dialed in, I think there's a TON of room for improvement there that really has nothing to do with Marquez.

I really do think I'd prefer roll with Toney/MVS/Hardman/Moore than JJSS/Toney/Moore/Rookie. Screw it - at this point I don't even think I prefer that route - I know I do.

Eh...130 yards and 5 more touchdowns in 1 less game is a pretty huge difference and I'd think 100 people out of 100 would say Gabriel is a much better player.

And he's also been overthrown on balls too. Not to the degree of MVS because he has better connection with his, but you can't use MVS being overthrown but not count Davis being overthrown too.

[O.city]

How consistent each team's offense has been at taking a 1st & 10 and earning a new sets of downs

It's easy to take the Chiefs for granted at this point but we'll probably never see anything like this again pic.twitter.com/CMDVl3Y1hk

— Computer Cowboy (@benbbaldwin) January 4, 2023

[-King-]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I think a lot of people have a totally warped perspective of things due to mostly watching Chiefs football and not a whole lot of other teams.

Yeah man, you're the only one who watches other teams. Good job.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by -King-

Eh...130 yards and 5 more touchdowns in 1 less game is a pretty huge difference and I'd think 100 people out of 100 would say Gabriel is a much better player.

And he's also been overthrown on balls too. Not to the degree of MVS because he has better connection with his, but you can't use MVS being overthrown but not count Davis being overthrown too.

But your position was regarding 'big plays' and he hasn't been more likely to provide those than MVS. The difference in their counting stats has been due to a little more intermediate volume and a fair amount more short yardage stuff that we throw to Hardman, Toney and Moore.

And I agree, people would say that Davis is much better. My point is that that perception is flawed and MVS isn't getting due credit.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by O.city

How consistent each team's offense has been at taking a 1st & 10 and earning a new sets of downs

It's easy to take the Chiefs for granted at this point but we'll probably never see anything like this again pic.twitter.com/CMDVl3Y1hk

— Computer Cowboy (@benbbaldwin) January 4, 2023

Hardman hasn’t played the last 8 games. Toney has been involved with some games (Jags) but not much more.

Juju has been a big part of it but Kelce is the guy. Pray to God that guy stays healthy

[O.city]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Hardman hasn’t played the last 8 games. Toney has been involved with some games (Jags) but not much more.

Juju has been a big part of it but Kelce is the guy. Pray to God that guy stays healthy

"The guy" is the QB. Kelce definitely helps, but as long as 15 is upright, we're in this thing.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by -King-

Yeah man, you're the only one who watches other teams. Good job.

Well, it's pretty apparent. It's also understandable. Who's got the time?

But the tendency to declare almost any Chiefs player subpar on a week to week basis is pretty ridiculous considering it's a 13-3 team with an MVP QB.

But you don't show much of an adult understanding of...well...anything, really, so that response is typical.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Well, it's pretty apparent. It's also understandable. Who's got the time?

But the tendency to declare almost any Chiefs player subpar on a week to week basis is pretty ridiculous considering it's a 13-3 team with an MVP QB.

But you don't show much of an adult understanding of...well...anything, really, so that response is typical.

When talking about an individual player, why would I have to talk about the MVP quarterback and 13-3 record? That makes no sense.

"Man I think I might need to replace the wipers on my car in a few months"

"WHY ARENT YOU TALKING ABOUT THE ENGINE AND HOW GOOD THE CAR IS DRIVING?!?!"

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by O.city

"The guy" is the QB. Kelce definitely helps, but as long as 15 is upright, we're in this thing.

Gonna have to disagree with you there. Kelce is crucial to this offense. And we’d find out very quickly the limitations of our WRs if we lost him. He absorbs so much attention. Even more since we don’t have a tyreek to grab some of those doubles. And that’s part of my concern. Kelce is getting flat out abused because defenses don’t pay any attention to our WRs. We don’t want to acknowledge it but our guy is getting older and the level of effort and expected dominance from him is just not sustainable.

This isn’t a tyreek situation where we can just lose him. We will have a substantial drop off. He is critical for our success. And at some point we have to prepare sooner rather than later for him to not be this important. What HOF coach and HOF qb would succeed with a bunch of 2s and 3s at WR? Hell, not even good 2s and 3s. Mid tier at best.

That seems really dangerous to bet it all on a 34 year old Te next year to carry 3 times his weight.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by -King-

When talking about an individual player, why would I have to talk about the MVP quarterback and 13-3 record? That makes no sense.

"Man I think I might need to replace the wipers on my car in a few months"

"WHY ARENT YOU TALKING ABOUT THE ENGINE AND HOW GOOD THE CAR IS DRIVING?!?!"

You're a man with a fork in a world of soup.

Laugh on.