If Veach Veaches, He'll Veach a DL

Direckshun · 02-25-2023, 03:17 PM

Veach is the king of completely remaking a part of the roster in one offseason in unthinkable ways.

The Chiefs completely rebuilt their defense prior to the 2019 season.

They re-signed everyone in 2020.

They completely rebuilt their offensive line prior to the 2021 season.

They completely rebuilt their WR corps and DB prior to the 2022 season.

If they do it this year....

The DL talent in this draft is deep, deep deep. Deep.

At edge, there are all kinds of names the Chiefs could take on the first three days: Nolan Smith, Andre Carter, BJ Ojulari, Will McDonald, Derick Hall, Felix Anudike-Uzomah.

Lukas Van Ness. Keion White. Isaiah Foskey. It's ridiculous, there is talent and value everywhere. They've got good depth in the later rounds as well: Habakkuk Baldonado, Brenton Cox Jr., Isaiah McGuire, BJ Thompson, Viliami Fehoko, even Lonnie Phelps.

There are starters and role players all over this draft. I think McGuire is a Year 2 starter and he's going on the third day.

It's also pretty good looking at DT, if you want passrushers or run pluggers. Do you want a pure 3rd down undertackle? Calijah Kancey, Moro Ojomo, Karl Brooks, Colby Wooden, Desjuan Johnson.

Do you want a 3 down guy? Bryan Bresse, Gervon Dexter, Kobie Turner, Zacch Pickens, DJ Dale, Jacquelin Roy.

Maybe you just want a gigantic run plugger; two down guy -- this draft is lousy with them. Siaki Ika, Keeanu Benton, Mazi Smith, PJ Mustipher, Keondre Coburn, Jerrod Clark, Brodric Martin.

There is talent in the 1st round. Talent all over the 2nd day. And tons of intriguing value later in the draft.

What does this team need, worst case scenario? At least two DEs, one of which needs to be a starter? Two DTs, maybe three, one of which needs to be starter grade?

This is the draft they can do it. This DL draft is down to clown.

JPH83 · 02-25-2023, 03:27 PM

Yeah I think it's fallen much better for us to fix DL long-term. We do have needs at RT, WR and S but I don't know there are half as many options there. I'd have to think 2-3 picks along the DL as a minimum. If he gets it right we can really round out our D.

kccrow · 02-25-2023, 03:41 PM

I also love the D-Line class.

I really wish KC didn't need an OT and have a likely secondary need at WR. It's not that you can't get a RT in the 3rd round, you can, but it's harder than the 2nd round. It's an inexact science to expect anything from day 3. That's a nice spot to get a couple of developmental guys but you're probably not going to get an immediate starter.

If Veach is serious about the long-term of the defense and keeping it young, then maybe they just bring in a vet WR again on the cheap and re-sign Wylie and OBj. I dunno. I don't love the idea but it sure plays well with the talent in this draft.

JPH83 · 02-25-2023, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

I also love the D-Line class.

I really wish KC didn't need an OT and have a likely secondary need at WR. It's not that you can't get a RT in the 3rd round, you can, but it's harder than the 2nd round. It's an inexact science to expect anything from day 3. That's a nice spot to get a couple of developmental guys but you're probably not going to get an immediate starter.

If Veach is serious about the long-term of the defense and keeping it young, then maybe they just bring in a vet WR again on the cheap and re-sign Wylie and OBj. I dunno. I don't love the idea but it sure plays well with the talent in this draft.

Totally agree with this. My attitude is pretty much now that we're going to have to gamble a little later at RT and maybe WR to really nail this DL.

kccrow · 02-25-2023, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPH83

Totally agree with this. My attitude is pretty much now that we're going to have to gamble a little later at RT and maybe WR to really nail this DL.

The gambling at RT thing is what scares me the most.

Direckshun · 02-25-2023, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

The gambling at RT thing is what scares me the most.

This team can totally get by with Niang at RT if they had to.

kccrow · 02-25-2023, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

This team can totally get by with Niang at RT if they had to.

When is he healthy? Until he proves he can actually be and remain healthy, not having a plan B or preferably a plan A with him as plan B is about as stupid as relying on Toney to be your primary WR.

It's just not smart. And no, I'm not confident in any plan that would include rolling with Niang and a day 3 rookie. That's asking for catastrophe.

Chris Meck · 02-25-2023, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

I also love the D-Line class.

I really wish KC didn't need an OT and have a likely secondary need at WR. It's not that you can't get a RT in the 3rd round, you can, but it's harder than the 2nd round. It's an inexact science to expect anything from day 3. That's a nice spot to get a couple of developmental guys but you're probably not going to get an immediate starter.

If Veach is serious about the long-term of the defense and keeping it young, then maybe they just bring in a vet WR again on the cheap and re-sign Wylie and OBj. I dunno. I don't love the idea but it sure plays well with the talent in this draft.

I'm not sure we DO have an immediate need at WR in 2023. I'm not saying we shouldn't take one, just that the cupboard is not empty, even if we don't take Juju.

I don't think they thought Moore was going to get a ton of snaps as a rookie; that's why they tried him at PR. They wanted him to get in the flow a little and get used to the speed of the NFL, but they knew with 4 veterans ahead of him, he wasn't going to get a ton of snaps at WR.

If you keep MVS, re-sign Watson on the cheap and I think Hardman takes a team friendly one year deal to try and enter FA with a season of healthy production, you're in good shape with Moore taking more snaps in the mix there. And there's Toney, of course. perhaps a targeted off-season of training can keep him on the field.

I think you absolutely CAN devote this draft to shoring up the DL and still take an OT in the first three rounds.

kccrow · 02-25-2023, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I'm not sure we DO have an immediate need at WR in 2023. I'm not saying we shouldn't take one, just that the cupboard is not empty, even if we don't take Juju.

I don't think they thought Moore was going to get a ton of snaps as a rookie; that's why they tried him at PR. They wanted him to get in the flow a little and get used to the speed of the NFL, but they knew with 4 veterans ahead of him, he wasn't going to get a ton of snaps at WR.

If you keep MVS, re-sign Watson on the cheap and I think Hardman takes a team friendly one year deal to try and enter FA with a season of healthy production, you're in good shape with Moore taking more snaps in the mix there. And there's Toney, of course. perhaps a targeted off-season of training can keep him on the field.

I think you absolutely CAN devote this draft to shoring up the DL and still take an OT in the first three rounds.

A lot of ifs and buts in there right now. As it stands we have 3 WRs not under contract. Maybe they all re-sign. Maybe you get 2 of 3. Etc. I'm sure they can add a modest FA like Watson even if it's not Watson (I like Dulin from Indy) but until FA shakes out a bit we don't know that it's not a need.

Couch-Potato · 02-25-2023, 09:02 PM

My favorite draft scenario involves a couple of quality defensive linemen falling to us early:

1st - DL Byran Breese falls to us to play as a 3-down lineman next to C Jones and we double down on our deadly interior DL
2nd - DE Tuli Tuipuluto, Andrew Carter, or Isaiah Foskey falls to us in the 2nd and we grab one of them up to rotate in as designated rusher and F Clark's eventual replacement.

Maybe take 1 or 2 depth guys later in the draft...I like Fehoko, Young, Incoom, Diaby, Simmons, and Caleb Murphy.

We're already the #2 pass-rush in the league, hard to improve on that unless we us premium picks to do it.

kccrow · 02-25-2023, 10:32 PM

A big reason I like the idea of picking up Gaines in FA is it opens up the draft a bit, especially to a scenario of DE/RT or RT/DE in 1/2 which would fit the Chiefs' most glaring needs best. If they have to go into this needing a NT, DE, and RT on top of wanting to add another young WR to the mix, it's going to get difficult.

JPH83 · 02-26-2023, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

The gambling at RT thing is what scares me the most.

Yep, I get it. I just think this DL needs multiple picks and even with a million this year we may need more. If we partially upgraded DL and went something like DE, RT, WR, S then it'd be fine by me. But I know I'm going to hate burning that second on an RT given what I think we'll pass up.

Couch-Potato · 02-26-2023, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPH83

Yep, I get it. I just think this DL needs multiple picks and even with a million this year we may need more. If we partially upgraded DL and went something like DE, RT, WR, S then it'd be fine by me. But I know I'm going to hate burning that second on an RT given what I think we'll pass up.

If we sign OBJ long term, I don't think we go OT in the first two rounds and instead look to Freeland, Nelson, Morris, or maybe Haggard at RT in the 3rd or 4th. That would allow us to go Dl & DE in the first 2 rounds, then look for a WR, OT, and S with our x3 picks in the 3rd & 4th.

Chris Meck · 02-26-2023, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

A lot of ifs and buts in there right now. As it stands we have 3 WRs not under contract. Maybe they all re-sign. Maybe you get 2 of 3. Etc. I'm sure they can add a modest FA like Watson even if it's not Watson (I like Dulin from Indy) but until FA shakes out a bit we don't know that it's not a need.

my point was that as it stands it looks empty, but a cheap and easy Watson re-sign and a Hardman one year deal that would also be cheap seeing as how he missed most of the year are likely. At that point, you have a deep WR roster with speed, size, and some youth to grow. Therefore allowing maximum attention to the DL, which I think we all agree is a big priority need.

Direckshun · 02-26-2023, 10:13 AM

There’s some reporting that Hardman may still have a market, injuries be damned. The WR market is legitimately that bad.

I’m obviously biased, but I think his best move is to take a JuJu deal here and then go get paid. But given how bad the market is, he could legitimately get paid right now.

02-25-2023, 03:17 PM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $3583447	If Veach Veaches, He'll Veach a DL Veach is the king of completely remaking a part of the roster in one offseason in unthinkable ways. The Chiefs completely rebuilt their defense prior to the 2019 season. They re-signed everyone in 2020. They completely rebuilt their offensive line prior to the 2021 season. They completely rebuilt their WR corps and DB prior to the 2022 season. If they do it this year.... The DL talent in this draft is deep, deep deep. Deep. At edge, there are all kinds of names the Chiefs could take on the first three days: Nolan Smith, Andre Carter, BJ Ojulari, Will McDonald, Derick Hall, Felix Anudike-Uzomah. Lukas Van Ness. Keion White. Isaiah Foskey. It's ridiculous, there is talent and value everywhere. They've got good depth in the later rounds as well: Habakkuk Baldonado, Brenton Cox Jr., Isaiah McGuire, BJ Thompson, Viliami Fehoko, even Lonnie Phelps. There are starters and role players all over this draft. I think McGuire is a Year 2 starter and he's going on the third day. It's also pretty good looking at DT, if you want passrushers or run pluggers. Do you want a pure 3rd down undertackle? Calijah Kancey, Moro Ojomo, Karl Brooks, Colby Wooden, Desjuan Johnson. Do you want a 3 down guy? Bryan Bresse, Gervon Dexter, Kobie Turner, Zacch Pickens, DJ Dale, Jacquelin Roy. Maybe you just want a gigantic run plugger; two down guy -- this draft is lousy with them. Siaki Ika, Keeanu Benton, Mazi Smith, PJ Mustipher, Keondre Coburn, Jerrod Clark, Brodric Martin. There is talent in the 1st round. Talent all over the 2nd day. And tons of intriguing value later in the draft. What does this team need, worst case scenario? At least two DEs, one of which needs to be a starter? Two DTs, maybe three, one of which needs to be starter grade? This is the draft they can do it. This DL draft is down to clown.
Posts: 59,422

02-25-2023, 03:41 PM	#3
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $646403	I also love the D-Line class. I really wish KC didn't need an OT and have a likely secondary need at WR. It's not that you can't get a RT in the 3rd round, you can, but it's harder than the 2nd round. It's an inexact science to expect anything from day 3. That's a nice spot to get a couple of developmental guys but you're probably not going to get an immediate starter. If Veach is serious about the long-term of the defense and keeping it young, then maybe they just bring in a vet WR again on the cheap and re-sign Wylie and OBj. I dunno. I don't love the idea but it sure plays well with the talent in this draft.
Posts: 12,722

02-25-2023, 09:02 PM	#10
Couch-Potato MVP Join Date: Jan 2015 Casino cash: $2113065	My favorite draft scenario involves a couple of quality defensive linemen falling to us early: 1st - DL Byran Breese falls to us to play as a 3-down lineman next to C Jones and we double down on our deadly interior DL 2nd - DE Tuli Tuipuluto, Andrew Carter, or Isaiah Foskey falls to us in the 2nd and we grab one of them up to rotate in as designated rusher and F Clark's eventual replacement. Maybe take 1 or 2 depth guys later in the draft...I like Fehoko, Young, Incoom, Diaby, Simmons, and Caleb Murphy. We're already the #2 pass-rush in the league, hard to improve on that unless we us premium picks to do it. Last edited by Couch-Potato; 02-26-2023 at 07:55 AM..
Posts: 6,519

02-25-2023, 10:32 PM	#11
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $646403	A big reason I like the idea of picking up Gaines in FA is it opens up the draft a bit, especially to a scenario of DE/RT or RT/DE in 1/2 which would fit the Chiefs' most glaring needs best. If they have to go into this needing a NT, DE, and RT on top of wanting to add another young WR to the mix, it's going to get difficult.
Posts: 12,722

02-26-2023, 10:13 AM	#15
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $3583447	There’s some reporting that Hardman may still have a market, injuries be damned. The WR market is legitimately that bad. I’m obviously biased, but I think his best move is to take a JuJu deal here and then go get paid. But given how bad the market is, he could legitimately get paid right now.
Posts: 59,422	2 0

02-25-2023, 03:27 PM	#2
JPH83 Veteran Join Date: Feb 2021 Casino cash: $1270400	Yeah I think it's fallen much better for us to fix DL long-term. We do have needs at RT, WR and S but I don't know there are half as many options there. I'd have to think 2-3 picks along the DL as a minimum. If he gets it right we can really round out our D.
Posts: 3,779