Orlando Brown Jr signs with Bengals

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Sources: Four-time Pro Bowl tackle and Super Bowl champ Orlando Brown Jr. is finalizing a four-year, $64.092 million front-loaded deal with the #Bengals that includes an over $31M signing bonus — largest ever for an o-lineman.

Brown’s agent, Michael Portner, confirmed the deal. pic.twitter.com/GFFZX0zLrs

— Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) March 16, 2023

[Wisconsin_Chief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I think he will be as well, but the projection involved and the respective resumes says that he really had no business beating OBJ in an open market.

But Veach was not going to allow himself to get dragged around by this guy and his ****ing neophyte yes man of an agent again. So he paid probably 15% more than the market likely supported to get the deal closed quickly and move on.

And that's fine in this setting. You're not signing a WR2 like Watkins, a safety or a LBer. It's your LT - if you have to overpay by a little to not get butt-****ed, do it.

But Brown wasn't gonna accept 'overpay by a little' as an answer unless or until the market beat him over the head with it.

Good job, Market. You did the lord's work with that clown and his dipshit agent.

The consensus is we overpaid for Taylor, but did we really? I mean McGlinchey got more than him to play RT, so realistically he didn't even get the biggest contract on the market at that position, and I'd argue he's just as good if not better than McGlinchey at RT. I think he's the one who kind of set the market so Veach had to go to that $80 million level if he wanted to get the deal done. Considering that they also wanted him to move to LT, they had to boost the offer a little more as well.

If we waited around, could he have gotten him for less? Maybe, but then you're playing that same game you did with Brown. He went in and got it done for what the market said was a pretty fair price at the time. We also don't know what else Taylor had on the table. He was being pretty heavily pursued from all indications, unlike Brown who nobody wanted because he sucks royal ass and is a punk ass bitch.

[TribalElder]

Hopefully this guy doesn't get anyone hurt trying to 1 on 1 block on the blind side

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by Superturtle

This wretched monstrosity is a garbage plate, BTW

I'd certainly try that. I don't really want to purchase it, but I'd certainly try it.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I really hope Veach is establishing a '**** around and find out' reputation.

If you want to stay, don't anchor. I know that you can get away with that in most negotiating settings and by and large its considered standard operating procedure. Shoot high, we'll exchange numbers we don't really expect to get accepted and we'll settle in the middle...

Got it. Typical stuff.

Well Veach doesn't seem interested in that crap.

Brett: "We think you're worth X"

Slapdick: "I think I should re-set the market"

{click}

Brett: "Martha, Get plan B on the phone!"

"Hey slapdick, I think you're worth X"

Slapdick B: "I think I'm worth X.2"

Brett: "Done"

Just come correct to the table and he'll get something done. But if you want to play hardball, he's moving on. So...stop ****ing playing hardball. Mahomes, Kelce and Jones are the only 3 guys that might be able to twist his arm. The rest of you fellas are support staff and WILL be replaced if you or your agent are gonna be dickheads about this process.

I think that's precisely what's happening. Of course, then you have clowns on here wanting to "hurry up" and make a trade when it's abundantly clear that Beach doesn't operate in ANY sense as a hostage.

I also don't think Mahomes, Kelce, and Jones are going to twist because they KNOW how Bert operates and appreciate it. I'm guessing Pat's contract large resembles what Bert had planned going in. I'm guessing much of the framework was his.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Wisconsin_Chief

The consensus is we overpaid for Taylor, but did we really? I mean McGlinchey got more than him to play RT, so realistically he didn't even get the biggest contract on the market at that position, and I'd argue he's just as good if not better than McGlinchey at RT. I think he's the one who kind of set the market so Veach had to go to that $80 million level if he wanted to get the deal done. Considering that they also wanted him to move to LT, they had to boost the offer a little more as well.

If we waited around, could he have gotten him for less? Maybe, but then you're playing that same game you did with Brown. He went in and got it done for what the market said was a pretty fair price at the time. We also don't know what else Taylor had on the table. He was being pretty heavily pursued from all indications, unlike Brown who nobody wanted because he sucks royal ass and is a punk ass bitch.

And Taylor isn't playing on that deal. That's the other thing I told my friend.

Don't worry about the contract - it's effectively a 3 year, $60 million deal. Some folks are saying "well they can get out of it in 2 years because only $40 million was guaranteed" but they're ignoring that the 2025 salary guarantees on the 3rd day of the 2024 league year. They're not cutting him before 2024 and paying him $40 million for 1 year.

So that 2025 guarantee will trigger as well. Once that happens it's 3/$60 million.

But in all reality, if he plays well after the first 2 years, they're going to extend that deal out. Honestly, if he plays well this season, they probably bonus out his salary next year to push some of that off next season's cap and bring that hit down nearer $15 million with the idea that they'll extend him prior to 2025 in a way that reduces what would then be a roughly $30 million cap hit (depending on how much base they turn to bonus) in 2025 down nearer $20 million.

I'd be surprised if we don't see cap hits over the next 4 years more along the lines of $6 million, 15 million, $20 million and $22 million. At that point you're talking about 4 years with cap figures in between $60 and $65 million.

What did Brown sign for? Oh that's right - 4/$64. And because he frontloaded the deal, that's what he's almost certainly going to have to play on (what benefit is there for Cincy to restructure those later years?). Or he could try to hold out but I think we know that if there's a way to screw up this process, he will.

I think you're probably looking at 6 in one hand, half dozen in the other when all is said and done. And Taylor simply fits this offense better than Brown.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Friend of mine asked me "Would you have signed OBJ at his price or Taylor at his if you knew the numbers beforehand..."

I mostly dodged the question (though I've answered it 'round here somewhere) and went with "it doesn't matter - the Chiefs DIDN'T know the numbers beforehand and that's exactly what OBJ and his 'agent' were counting on..."

They signed Taylor because they COULD. Because he ****ing said yes. They've worked on a deal with Brown for 2 years now and all he ever did was play coy and operate in bad faith. That or just sit ass and procrastinate.

The only thing that could've really ****ed this off-season up for KC was trying to wait on Brown and he knew it. Had the market dried up around him BEFORE the Chiefs got a deal done, he was going to absolutely hold us over a barrel.

Veach fired a pre-emptive strike because he had to. It was no different than Mathieu and his 'top 5 safety' crap. The Chiefs couldn't afford to wait on him to get reasonable so they paid Reid. Meanwhile had Mathieu been willing to sign the deal Reid got from the jump, he almost certainly comes back.

Had Brown and his people made that offer to Veach BEFORE they signed Taylor, I'm betting Brown comes back. But he didn't because he simply wasn't operating in good faith at any point throughout this process. He wanted to leverage the market against KC and Veach jumped the market to avoid it.

Did it require a bit of an overpay to Taylor? Yeah - probably. Was it still the right move? Absolutely, because Brown wasn't giving Veach a choice.

Absolutely. Veach did what he did because he had to for the reasons you mentioned. There was zero chance Brown was ever going to act in good faith because he had an inexperienced agent who didn’t gauge the market ahead of time. As such Brown Jr had a heightened sense of his worth and it took the market to humble him.

Even had KC not signed Taylor I just don’t see Brown Jr coming back here with his tail (or fox tail) between his legs. Pride would have prevented that and he would probably want to accept Veach’s initial offer which I almost guarantee Veach no longer offers. He was not going to accept market value with KC. He would rather go to a rival for that money. The biggest impact of KC waiting would have meant spending more on either Taylor (if still available) or someone else.

[O.city]

Are we sure Jones gets done at this point?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Are we sure Jones gets done at this point?

We are not.

But I've seen nothing to suggest that it's any LESS likely than it ever was.

I'd still give 2 to 1 in favor of an extension being reached at this point. Just perhaps not the kind of backloaded deal that's designed to free up a ton of cap space. It may just be a simple ol' extension where we work to keep a lifelong Chief and obvious force multiplier in red for 3-4 more years.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

We are not.

But I've seen nothing to suggest that it's any LESS likely than it ever was.

I'd still give 2 to 1 in favor of an extension being reached at this point. Just perhaps not the kind of backloaded deal that's designed to free up a ton of cap space. It may just be a simple ol' extension where we work to keep a lifelong Chief and obvious force multiplier in red for 3-4 more years.

I thought so too, but what's the holdup?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

I thought so too, but what's the holdup?

It's a metric ****ing ton of money.

I wonder - has there been any news on a possible Jonathan Allen extension? Because wouldn't it seem likely that Jones and his camp would want to wait until after a possible Allen extension to plant their flag?

The rumors are that Jones isn't looking for Donald money, right? Well he most certainly doesn't want to be making less than Allen.

Now maybe an Allen deal isn't on the table. It might not be with Washington signing Payne. But he has zero guarantees past this season so I'd be surprised if his agent hasn't approached Washington about possibly getting that remedied and in the process adding another year or two to the back end. And if the Washington ownership situation is in flux, maybe that's just going to be back-burnered until it isn't?

If I'm betting, I'd say it's that Jones and his reps are waiting on an extension to come down the pipe from somewhere and looking to set that as the baseline. Though again, that's all presuming that the 'we aren't looking to make more than Donald' rumors are true.

If they AREN'T and he wants Donald money, then there are probably hard conversations being had at several different levels.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I think he will be as well, but the projection involved and the respective resumes says that he really had no business beating OBJ in an open market.

But Veach was not going to allow himself to get dragged around by this guy and his ****ing neophyte yes man of an agent again. So he paid probably 15% more than the market likely supported to get the deal closed quickly and move on.

And that's fine in this setting. You're not signing a WR2 like Watkins, a safety or a LBer. It's your LT - if you have to overpay by a little to not get butt-****ed, do it.

But Brown wasn't gonna accept 'overpay by a little' as an answer unless or until the market beat him over the head with it.

Good job, Market. You did the lord's work with that clown and his dipshit agent.

I think all of your analyses have been correct, but I'm not even convinced that Taylor was a Plan B at all. I think the Chiefs were good with bringing back Brown, but I'm guessing they had a grade/$ amount on Taylor and were looking forward to exercising that option as well; I'm not at all surprised it got done so quickly.

[DJ's left nut]

Payne signed for 4/$90 with a structure that actually makes the 4th year pretty palatable. so let's assume that's the baseline.

Can we take Jones and his $19.5 million base this season, $500K workout bonus and $1.5 million sack bonus, lock them in and then add a 4 year, $100 million extension to the back of that?

Should we? He'd be 33 when that extension is over. Donald is presently 32. Okay - I can live with that.

{cracks knuckles}

So lock in his roughly $21.5 million this year and add another $100 million to it and you're looking at a new deal of 5 years, $121.5 million. You're probably looking at guaranteeing 70% of that if you want a deal done at those numbers. So lets say $85 million guaranteed. We'll throw $40 million of that into a signing bonus and another $5 million of it will be covered by this year's salary.

So how 'bout this:

5/$123 million w/ a $40 million signing bonus and salaries of $5, $15, $18, $20 and $25 million.

Salaries in 23 and 24 are guaranteed at signing. The '25 salary guarantees on the 3rd day of the '24 league year, providing effective guarantees of $78 million over 3 years. The 20 million in 2026 is reasonable enough still (provided cap expansion) that there's a chance he plays on it at 32 years old (the same age Donald is now).

Cap hits are:

$20 million (the 'new' $13 million figure plus the $7 million restructure bonus that's already baked into the cap from the previous restructure)
$23 million
$26 million
$28 million (with $16 million in dead money if you pull the chute; could be spread out over 2 years)

Is that enough? It beats anything that's ever been done. He doesn't see a $28 million cap hit (what he has right now) for 4 years, if at all. We lock him in through the remainder of his prime with a reasonable figure in his out year(s) and a tolerable dead money hit if he doesn't age particularly well.

It seems fair....? It gets him a TON of money in his pocket now and it gives him a bump over this year's salary on his AAV over the coming 3 seasons. It's a better deal than Payne got and pretty comparable to anything Donald got despite the cap increases.

{shrug}

Works in my head...

[KCJake]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It's a metric ****ing ton of money.


The rumors are that Jones isn't looking for Donald money, right? Well he most certainly doesn't want to be making less than Allen.

Now maybe an Allen deal isn't on the table. It might not be with Washington signing Payne. But he has zero guarantees past this season so I'd be surprised if his agent hasn't approached Washington about possibly getting that remedied and in the process adding another year or two to the back end. And if the Washington ownership situation is in flux, maybe that's just going to be back-burnered until it isn't?

If I'm betting, I'd say it's that Jones and his reps are waiting on an extension to come down the pipe from somewhere and looking to set that as the baseline. Though again, that's all presuming that the 'we aren't looking to make more than Donald' rumors are true.

If they AREN'T and he wants Donald money, then there are probably hard conversations being had at several different levels.

Who the fck is Allen?

[DJ's left nut]

Jonathan Allen - DT for Washington.

Same age as Jones and like Jones, a very good interior rusher who occasionally has lapses in run support (but also like Jones, has improved in this area as he's matured).

He's not in that Donald/Jones/Lawrence/Hargrave tier of interior rushers but he's probably at the head of the next wave. Very very good player.

[penchief]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

I'd certainly try that. I don't really want to purchase it, but I'd certainly try it.

What’s the original point of that dish? Someone trailer park schmo had to make room in the fridge and decided to cook all the leftovers at once? And now it’s considered fine cuisine in Cincinnati?