Veach and Reid have a template to compete each year

[BigRedChief]

They are using a Bellicheck/Brady modified version they used to sustain success.

Basics:

• Elite QB
• Great O-line
• JAG and or FA value WR's and RB's
• Solid Defense
• Good kicking game

Discipline

• Move up in the draft to get "your" guy despite what the points say
• Leverage the success to encourage and work with older and cheaper FA vets seeking a ring offering one year contracts.
• Don't give 3rd contracts to your guys over 30. No matter how good they are currently.

Seems obvious to me. What say you?

[ThyKingdomCome15]

To say NE's defenses were merely solid is not giving them their credit. They were a lot better than anything we've seen in the Mahomes era. Veach poured a ton of resources into it the past two years. Perhaps we'll turn the corner this year in that department.

In the event the Chiefs can field an elite defense this year, it's basically game over for the NFL. Keeping Patrick on the sideline, like saw in the first half of SB57 has always been their one hope.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

And there you go. Thank you for making my point for me. That we deprioritize needs on offense. Probably because we just expect Reid and mahomes to carry us.

Our interior OL was a disaster for several years. But we were desperate to fix our defense so we let mahomes get rolled for several years. We knew Wylie was shit for 2 years. But we had to fix our Defense. The minute Watkins became unreliable WR became a need - we threw one damn high-ish pick in FIVE YEARS for a position where you can use 3 or 4 guys and even if you think we tried, every single option failed. As in, could barely get a one year contract with another team.

the fact that you don’t think it was a need even back then just means you don’t think these positions are very important. Hence the point about being complacent. We are ok with it because mahomes can elevate the talent.

Except no, I didn't make your point for you. When you have a top five WR and a high draft pick WR you're trying to develop, but gaping holes at other places in your roster, it's not "de-prioritizing" offense to work on those holes. This is an absurd argument on your part. You fill the holes you have CURRENTLY first, and there are only so many draft picks and cap dollars so you do the best you can.

There were offensive line problems, and defensive line problems, and secondary issues, and LB issues, and all of those things were threats to derail the express.

We're only one season removed from Sorensen, Niemann, Reiter, and Cam Irving taking meaningful snaps. Those were big holes. Areas of poor talent. We had Hill, had invested a 2nd in Hardman, and Kelce. Hardman didn't really develop beyond a gadget guy, but you have to play that hand through. You can't say that there wasn't enough talent there in those years.

When Hill left, the intensity of investment changed dramatically, and we'll see what shakes out, but for the thousandth time, there has been a significant investment in the WR room. It's smart to do this now, while Kelce is still Kelce.

Juju and MVS were/are stopgaps while the younguns develop.

It's smart. The OT investment is smart. The defensive investment is smart. We're going to have to play the other elite QB's in the play-offs, and a good defense gives us more of a margin for error.

Your argument is nuts, and all over the place. You were literally arguing that we were in trouble at LB, when that's probably the most stocked position on the roster; but now we've invested too much in the defense. You make no sense.

[Chris Meck]

Man, if this defense is top 5-and it might well be, you KNOW that Andy Reid and Mahomes are going to put a top 5 offense on the field, there's just no way they don't, then I'd happily take my chances with that. Thank you very much.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Except no, I didn't make your point for you. When you have a top five WR and a high draft pick WR you're trying to develop, but gaping holes at other places in your roster, it's not "de-prioritizing" offense to work on those holes. This is an absurd argument on your part. You fill the holes you have CURRENTLY first, and there are only so many draft picks and cap dollars so you do the best you can.

There were offensive line problems, and defensive line problems, and secondary issues, and LB issues, and all of those things were threats to derail the express.

We're only one season removed from Sorensen, Niemann, Reiter, and Cam Irving taking meaningful snaps. Those were big holes. Areas of poor talent. We had Hill, had invested a 2nd in Hardman, and Kelce. Hardman didn't really develop beyond a gadget guy, but you have to play that hand through. You can't say that there wasn't enough talent there in those years.

When Hill left, the intensity of investment changed dramatically, and we'll see what shakes out, but for the thousandth time, there has been a significant investment in the WR room. It's smart to do this now, while Kelce is still Kelce.

Juju and MVS were/are stopgaps while the younguns develop.

It's smart. The OT investment is smart. The defensive investment is smart. We're going to have to play the other elite QB's in the play-offs, and a good defense gives us more of a margin for error.

Your argument is nuts, and all over the place. You were literally arguing that we were in trouble at LB, when that's probably the most stocked position on the roster; but now we've invested too much in the defense. You make no sense.

There is always going to be a crisis when you have to fill every damn position. That is the point I’ve been making. Our defense has had crises almost every single year. We do not have to be elite on both sides of the ball. So yeah, you’ve proven my point. We deprioritized WR even when that meant using mecole as WR2 in 2021 (with him being our only semi major swing in 5 years) to fill a 5-person WR room. We let mahomes get mauled behind a shit interior OL because we had to fix suttons defense. We kicked the can down the road on Wylie and now we may end up protecting mahomes’ blind side with a bandaid. A single competent RT would have let Taylor develop into the LT we intended him to be.

I’m glad we’re making some swings now at WR or OT. But we shouldn’t have to wait for the dam burst to create urgency. You act like we care so much about WR or OL because we took a lot of swings only recently. Well yeah, when you ignore it or do so badly at finding guys for years requiring you to replace the entire unit, you HAVE to. It’s reactive and somewhat out of desperation.

I didn’t say we were in trouble at LB. Not at all. I don’t love that the next wave may look to be putting a huge chunk of our payroll on low positional value spots like interior OL and LB. Areas easily filled by the late draft.

You’re making it clear where you stand. You think these offensive skill positions are lesser importance because Reid and mahomes can carry them. You basically admitted to deprioritizing OL and WR during the tyreek years. And that was fine. Now that our defensive roster is set, you’re still fine with us now looking for back of the roster DBs and DL, but that was not necessary back when our offensive roster was “set.”

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by kozzman555

There's only so many draft picks to go around my dude. While Veach is one of, if not the best, GM in the NFL he isn't guaranteed to hit on all of them. There are going to be busts. It's a fact of life. We are going to use our draft pics to address the positions of need, if we can, depending on how the board falls. Sometimes it's not going to line up, sometimes we have to go a different direction.

Same thing with FA. There's a salary cap, it's not Madden. We put out the biggest fires first and then worry about the rest. Our team prior to Veach was not deep. We had a few great players and a ton of JAG's. We are turning over the roster as our draft picks and salary cap allow us. These 1 and 2 year deals are buying us time for our draft picks to actually develop, or not.

I keep reading about our lack of receivers in this thread. Like, really? Isn't Reid's offense notoriously difficult to learn and master, due to each receiver needing to know ALL of the responsibilities? Imagine having to learn all of that, plus having to learn to play at an NFL level, and study film. It's a hell of a learning curve. Be patient, we've gotten to 3 of the last 4 Super Bowls and won two of them. I think what we are doing is ok and we need to have a little faith in the process. It seems to be working.

If there are a limited amount of resources especially with mahomes new contract, then you must agree that our effort to build the best possible defense our draft can find makes it really difficult to put anything into the offense. If our WRs and OL need time to develop then maybe we shouldn’t wait until the rooms are completely broken and react to crises, and instead proactively take a lot of swings so we don’t have to rush guys out there before they’re ready. instead we are forced to fill these holes. We are considering a bandaid to mahomes blind side when we should have had a RT ready by now. Hell, we shouldn’t have waited a few years to let Wylie keep playing. We had 5 years to find a replacement to tyreek or hell, even Sammy Watkins. Hell to find a single WR3 or WR4. So for a position that takes a long time to develop we threw 5 new guys all at once.

And to add to that, we don’t know how much longer kelce will dominate or even be a model of health. We have to plan for that too.

[O.city]

It comes down to just wanting to spend as much money and draft picks as you can on weapons. They spent it on OL, but that's not good enough, it's gotta be weapons.

You aren't gonna go after alot of weapons when you have Tyreek and Kelce soaking up 250 plus targets a year, you will draft some mid rounders and attempt to develop them. They did that, some hit and were fine, some didn't. They aren't all going to turn into Hill from the fifth to the penthouse.

[O.city]

This whole "have a plan" thing is fine, but the NFL is in 2 year cycles. You can literally clear out your roster in 2 years.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by ThyKingdomCome15

To say NE's defenses were merely solid is not giving them their credit. They were a lot better than anything we've seen in the Mahomes era. Veach poured a ton of resources into it the past two years. Perhaps we'll turn the corner this year in that department.

In the event the Chiefs can field an elite defense this year, it's basically game over for the NFL. Keeping Patrick on the sideline, like saw in the first half of SB57 has always been their one hope.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Man, if this defense is top 5-and it might well be, you KNOW that Andy Reid and Mahomes are going to put a top 5 offense on the field, there's just no way they don't, then I'd happily take my chances with that. Thank you very much.

We need to draft a WR every year in the first 2 rounds. Beyond that, the facts are Veach has went heavy on defense the last 2 drafts. We will not reach the defensive levels of NE back in the day but we don't have to, all we need is a top 10 defense. Mahomes does what he does and we get more SB trophies.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by O.city

It comes down to just wanting to spend as much money and draft picks as you can on weapons. They spent it on OL, but that's not good enough, it's gotta be weapons.

You aren't gonna go after alot of weapons when you have Tyreek and Kelce soaking up 250 plus targets a year, you will draft some mid rounders and attempt to develop them. They did that, some hit and were fine, some didn't. They aren't all going to turn into Hill from the fifth to the penthouse.

Then you gotta build a pipeline and take a lot of swings. Not wait until your whole room falls apart. We react to crises on offense. We don’t proactively fix anything and we’re even content to march out bad to below average pieces.

I don’t think we have to sugarcoat it. Whether we just ignored it like WR or we just made bad calls like OT, we just didn’t hit at these skill positions. None of these guys got any interest after they left. if we’re going to rely heavily on the draft we have to try harder and better.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Then you gotta build a pipeline and take a lot of swings. Not wait until your whole room falls apart. We react to crises on offense. We don’t proactively fix anything and we’re even content to march out bad to below average pieces.

I don’t think we have to sugarcoat it. Whether we just ignored it like WR or we just made bad calls like OT, we just didn’t hit at these skill positions. None of these guys got any interest after they left. if we’re going to rely heavily on the draft we have to try harder and better.

Wylie got a nice contract with the Commanders, OBJ with the Bengals. So......there goes that.

Most teams 3rd and 4th WR's wash out of the league when they don't get resigned by that team, ours usually end up elsewhere for something.

What would you have preferred to do at WR? Draft more first rounders? Sign more free agents? I'm curious what you would have preferred here

[O.city]

"Build a pipeline" Like what does that even mean?

They drafted a bunch of mid late round guys, a few early rounders. None of them turned into top 10 WR's. Big shock?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by ThyKingdomCome15

To say NE's defenses were merely solid is not giving them their credit. They were a lot better than anything we've seen in the Mahomes era. Veach poured a ton of resources into it the past two years. Perhaps we'll turn the corner this year in that department.

In the event the Chiefs can field an elite defense this year, it's basically game over for the NFL. Keeping Patrick on the sideline, like saw in the first half of SB57 has always been their one hope.

I just see a different shade of gray. Now imagine if we secure competent OTs and gave him actual WR weapons. I think we’ll get a taste of that if Toney can stay healthy. How good does your defense need to be? A scary good offense with a top 10 defense is way more scary to me than being too 3 in both.

As good as our offense has been, surprisingly it was offense that held us from our last 2 exits. And just as mahomes will always find a way to cook, I still think you HAVE to beat burrow and josh Allen in the playoffs with offense. It just takes one hot streak to take our defense no matter how good and make them out of sync. Whereas mahomes can consistently carry a defense.

I still say you build as good an offense as you can with our cap limitations to the extent that they don’t push your defense out of the top 10.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I just see a different shade of gray. Now imagine if we secure competent OTs and gave him actual WR weapons. I think we’ll get a taste of that if Toney can stay healthy. How good does your defense need to be? A scary good offense with a top 10 defense is way more scary to me than being too 3 in both.

As good as our offense has been, surprisingly it was offense that held us from our last 2 exits. And just as mahomes will always find a way to cook, I still think you HAVE to beat burrow and josh Allen in the playoffs with offense. It just takes one hot streak to take our defense no matter how good and make them out of sync. Whereas mahomes can consistently carry a defense.

I still say you build as good an offense as you can with our cap limitations to the extent that they don’t push your defense out of the top 10.

Evidence just says youre wrong here man.

The Chiefs 2 SB' years came down to the defense getting stops.

The 3 other years were the defense not getting stops and the offense not being able to score 40.

I'm as much for putting as many weapons around the guy as you can, but reasonably, once he signed his deal, this is what comes with it. It is what it is.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by O.city

"Build a pipeline" Like what does that even mean?

They drafted a bunch of mid late round guys, a few early rounders. None of them turned into top 10 WR's. Big shock?

So you acknowledge that we basically treated WR like an afterthought for 5 years.

You’re not going to hit a top 10 pick with every WR. So you gotta take a lot of swings. In the process you might find a WR2 or WR3 or WR4 and they’re all positions that actually contribute. Especially since we acknowledge that it’s harder and takes longer for Reid WRs to develop.

Not only were we content with surrounding tyreek with shit for WR. We had ZERO options in an entire 5-wr room we developed in house when tyreek left. And as you acknowledge we barely even tried.

What we did in 2022 wasn’t a commitment to WR. It was catch up and a little bit of panic because we ignored the position for years.

[RunKC]

I think the formula is pretty damn simple and last year proved it.

-1st rd and highest paid FA’s need to be relegated to tackles, pass rushers or corners. Should only deviate from that if a damn good weapon is available.
-a myriad of solid weapons is better than 2 great ones and a pile of shit
-keep reloading the OL at all costs. When Thuney is towards the end, use a 2nd rd pick on a quality G to replace him. Constantly be taking a developmental OL on day 3. Keep looking for the value. Getting a Wanya Morris in rd 3 is a good thing, not a waste.

Lot of people hated the Packers for using this philosophy but honestly it worked out well for them. Not using a 1st on weapons wasn’t the end of the world when your 2nd rd picks were Jordy Nelson, Davante Adams, Randall Cobb and Greg Jennings.

The Packers didn’t “waste Rodgers”. They set him up nicely many times. 4 championship game appearances in 11 seasons after that SB isn’t bad.

At some point you gotta blame the QB for not winning. The Seahawks gaffe and blowing 2 straight home playoff championship games as well as doing nothing at home against the 49ers in the playoffs.

Yeah. Lot of that was on Aaron