Chiefs Sign Former Bucs LT Donovan Smith

[Dante84]

Donovan Smith started 124 games over the past eight seasons with the #Bucs. After signing Jawaan Taylor to a big deal in March, Kansas City continues to invest in protecting Patrick Mahomes. https://t.co/CK4z151PD8

— Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) May 3, 2023

[FringeNC]

Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush

Well said, Blaine.

Typo or direct quote I wonder? I'm guessing the former. Funny either way.

[RealSNR]

When PFF comes up with these ridiculous QB grades, you have to atom bomb the whole thing. Yes, the WHOLE THING.

"Oh but it's useful for charting certain positions that don't have tallied stats like offensive line, because otherwise how do you track quality among..."

THE WHOLE THING. BLOW IT ALL UP.

Patrick Mahomes is the truth. End of ****ing story. It's been 5 years and even in his worst stretch (the 6 or 7 games in 2021) his season INTs were just high compared to what he normally throws, and not at all high compared to the rest of the league. This notion of "interceptable throws" that they pulled out their asses is hilarious because they think that stat matters to a super human like Patrick Mahomes.

Stats show trends, not truths. They don't account for immortals like Mahomes. They can explain Derek Carr and Kyler Murray and Matt Ryan and even Aaron Rodgers, but they don't explain Mahomes. And if you're arrogant enough to **** that mathematical model like a goddamn chicken over and over again even though it hasn't produced any eggs in 5 ****ing seasons, it's a huuuuuge sign of not just a flaw but a glaring problem that tanks your entire credibility.

If Mahomes is rated as a mid-tier QB after throwing 300 yards, 3 TDs, no picks, and upper 60s completion percentage, then **** you, **** your **** children, **** your **** dog, and **** Ireland or whatever shithole you live in across the pond. You're full of crap and should kill yourself.

[AdolfOliverBush]

Originally Posted by RealSNR

When PFF comes up with these ridiculous QB grades, you have to atom bomb the whole thing. Yes, the WHOLE THING.

"Oh but it's useful for charting certain positions that don't have tallied stats like offensive line, because otherwise how do you track quality among..."

THE WHOLE THING. BLOW IT ALL UP.

Patrick Mahomes is the truth. End of ****ing story. It's been 5 years and even in his worst stretch (the 6 or 7 games in 2021) his season INTs were just high compared to what he normally throws, and not at all high compared to the rest of the league. This notion of "interceptable throws" that they pulled out their asses is hilarious because they think that stat matters to a super human like Patrick Mahomes.

Stats show trends, not truths. They don't account for immortals like Mahomes. They can explain Derek Carr and Kyler Murray and Matt Ryan and even Aaron Rodgers, but they don't explain Mahomes. And if you're arrogant enough to **** that mathematical model like a goddamn chicken over and over again even though it hasn't produced any eggs in 5 ****ing seasons, it's a huuuuuge sign of not just a flaw but a glaring problem that tanks your entire credibility.

If Mahomes is rated as a mid-tier QB after throwing 300 yards, 3 TDs, no picks, and upper 60s completion percentage, then **** you, **** your **** children, **** your **** dog, and **** Ireland or whatever shithole you live in across the pond. You're full of crap and should kill yourself.

Sooo...you're saying PFF is alright?

[kcgreene]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

We need to stop pretending like 'pressures' means anything. The concept does - legitimate pressure can impact plays obviously. But the statistic doesn't - it's simply not a reliable measure of any sort.

A pressure is literally just a hurry, a QBHit, or a sack all compiled into one number. All of those are pressures. All of those have been reliable metrics for a while, and if we want to argue about hurries, fine, but the difference between numbers over a season would be pretty negligible, gain some here, lose some there (A hurry is “a situation when the QB is forced to throw the ball earlier than intended or is chased around/out of the pocket as the result of defensive pressure”). So, if someone allowed a pressure it's because they got beat and allowed someone to get a hurry, a QBHit, or a sack. The statistic is much more reliable than any of those numbers by themselves. Hence, if you lost at the line and allowed any of these things to happen to your quarterback it would apply.

PFFs player grading metrics are horrible, and don't agree with the statistics 75% of the time, but pressures means something. They mean a lot more than any of those statistics individually.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by kcgreene

A pressure is literally just a hurry, a QBHit, or a sack all compiled into one number. All of those are pressures. All of those have been reliable metrics for a while, and if we want to argue about hurries, fine, but the difference between numbers over a season would be pretty negligible, gain some here, lose some there (A hurry is “a situation when the QB is forced to throw the ball earlier than intended or is chased around/out of the pocket as the result of defensive pressure”). So, if someone allowed a pressure it's because they got beat and allowed someone to get a hurry, a QBHit, or a sack. The statistic is much more reliable than any of those numbers by themselves. Hence, if you lost at the line and allowed any of these things to happen to your quarterback it would apply.

PFFs player grading metrics are horrible, and don't agree with the statistics 75% of the time, but pressures means something. They mean a lot more than any of those statistics individually.

A hurry is COMPLETELY subjective based on the very definition you provided.

I'm aware of what a pressure is and it's the 'hurry' element that creates the bullshit. Again I'll reference when PFF gave OBJ a pressure on a screen pass. No, that's not 'getting beat' - it's a grader being an asshole.

The statistic is not even a little bit reliable because it, like the player grading metric you proceed to lambast, is based on a completely subjective determination of what was 'supposed' to happen. There are times a OL is supposed to come off his man to help with someone else and then when his original guy is let loose, the play is timed to actually ensure that, despite the fact he's closing on the QB as the ball is being delivered, he's not actually creating any problems. And Reid is the absolute master of this sort of thing - he's made an art form of it (the Jah Reid game was the best example you'll ever see - 'pressures' that didn't mean shit).

But because he was almost there when the throw was being made and the grader doesn't have any idea what the timing/progressions or assignments on the play where, it's a pressure when everything went to script.

Pressures are a worthless, awful statistic. They're as prone to error as the player grades and for the exact same reasons.

[kcgreene]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

A hurry is COMPLETELY subjective based on the very definition you provided.

I'm aware of what a pressure is and it's the 'hurry' element that creates the bullshit. Again I'll reference when PFF gave OBJ a pressure on a screen pass. No, that's not 'getting beat' - it's a grader being an asshole.

The statistic is not even a little bit reliable because it, like the player grading metric you proceed to lambast, is based on a completely subjective determination of what was 'supposed' to happen. There are times a OL is supposed to come off his man to help with someone else and then when his original guy is let loose, the play is timed to actually ensure that, despite the fact he's closing on the QB as the ball is being delivered, he's not actually creating any problems. And Reid is the absolute master of this sort of thing - he's made an art form of it (the Jah Reid game was the best example you'll ever see - 'pressures' that didn't mean shit).

But because he was almost there when the throw was being made and the grader doesn't have any idea what the timing/progressions or assignments on the play where, it's a pressure when everything went to script.

Pressures are a worthless, awful statistic. They're as prone to error as the player grades and for the exact same reasons.

You literally are arguing something I literally said in my post if we want to argue about hurries, fine, but the difference between numbers over a season would be pretty negligible, gain some here, lose some there due to the eye test being a little different for every individual person

Hurries have been a stat that NFL Next Gen, Pro Football Reference (That's actually who's definition I took), and several others have all used for a hot minute, to act as if it has no legitimacy is, in my opinion somewhat short sighted.

Am I saying it's infallible? Hell no, everything is open to interpretation, even things that some people think that aren't like sacks (Was it the lineman, or was it the QB, because yes, some QBs take on more sacks due to lack of awareness or inability to extend plays obviously), but to throw out the baby with the bathwater is completely illogical.

If Hurries are entirely bullshit, then let's take it out of the equation.

OBJ 2022 - 7 QB Hits, 4 Sacks
DS 2022 (Injured) - 7 QB Hits, 6 Sacks
OBJ 2021 - 12 QB Hits, 4 Sacks
DS 2021 - 4 QB Hits, 1 Sack

These being with Andy being the superior schemer and Mahomes being legendary at avoiding pressure and extending plays.

Everyone raves about how Mahomes extends plays at a LEGENDARY level, but noone thinks about WHY he has to extend so many damn plays. It might be because he's being hurried so damn much because our tackles (other than Schwartz) haven't really been these amazing bookends on the line.

[BryanBusby]

Hurries tallied is just a number that's greatly lacking in context and subject to be skewed by whatever underpaidnd dipshit is viewing a compressed rip of a game.

[MahomesKnows]

Other considerations when comparing OBJ and Smith is who they were blocking for last year vs next year. OBJ got let off the hook many times because Mahomes is magical at getting out of the pocket. Smith was blocking for a statue of Tom Brady. This year, Smith will reap the rewards of Mahomes escapabilty, while OBJ has to try and protect the guy who's led the league in sacks.

[T-post Tom]

Look out haters, Donovan Smith is ready:

[kcgreene]

Originally Posted by MahomesKnows

Other considerations when comparing OBJ and Smith is who they were blocking for last year vs next year. OBJ got let off the hook many times because Mahomes is magical at getting out of the pocket. Smith was blocking for a statue of Tom Brady. This year, Smith will reap the rewards of Mahomes escapabilty, while OBJ has to try and protect the guy who's led the league in sacks.

In the pursuit of honest analysis, I can't say that Brady and that offense was more inducive to sacks per se, as there was A LOT of designed quick passes (like... a LOT more), but you are 100% correct that in any play more than a quick pass; if Brady got in trouble, he wasn't going to be avoiding the QB hit or the sack unlike Mahomes, who I would put against anyone in league history at extending plays.

In my opinion, too many people on CP have a hard on for average and slightly above average O linemen that wore a Chiefs uniform at one point. The drop off between OBJ and Smith is not substantial (and can and will be argued Smith is better as a pass blocker) for what we do as an offense.

Don't get me wrong, OBJ is a much more well rounded as a Tackle (a substantially better run blocker in my opinion) and I've said multiple times in this thread that Smith has penalty problems in comparison to OBJ, but too many people on here are acting like we got some JAG at left tackle when it clearly is not the case.

As long as he's healthy (my only real concern about him), we should be just fine.

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

Hurries tallied is just a number that's greatly lacking in context and subject to be skewed by whatever underpaidnd dipshit is viewing a compressed rip of a game.

I remember in the first game of the year watching Mahomes step up in the pocket and hitting Kelce down the field beautifully and beating triple coverage. I bet they awarded some Arizona d-lineman a pressure on that play that Mahomes hit one of his best passes of the season on.

[Kiimo]

Originally Posted by RealSNR

When PFF comes up with these ridiculous QB grades, you have to atom bomb the whole thing. Yes, the WHOLE THING.

"Oh but it's useful for charting certain positions that don't have tallied stats like offensive line, because otherwise how do you track quality among..."

THE WHOLE THING. BLOW IT ALL UP.

Patrick Mahomes is the truth. End of ****ing story. It's been 5 years and even in his worst stretch (the 6 or 7 games in 2021) his season INTs were just high compared to what he normally throws, and not at all high compared to the rest of the league. This notion of "interceptable throws" that they pulled out their asses is hilarious because they think that stat matters to a super human like Patrick Mahomes.

Stats show trends, not truths. They don't account for immortals like Mahomes. They can explain Derek Carr and Kyler Murray and Matt Ryan and even Aaron Rodgers, but they don't explain Mahomes. And if you're arrogant enough to **** that mathematical model like a goddamn chicken over and over again even though it hasn't produced any eggs in 5 ****ing seasons, it's a huuuuuge sign of not just a flaw but a glaring problem that tanks your entire credibility.

If Mahomes is rated as a mid-tier QB after throwing 300 yards, 3 TDs, no picks, and upper 60s completion percentage, then **** you, **** your **** children, **** your **** dog, and **** Ireland or whatever shithole you live in across the pond. You're full of crap and should kill yourself.

Mahomes is 2 for 3 in Expected Super Bowl Wins which is only a 66% win rate.

Meanwhile Nick Foles is 100%, PFF's all time GOAT QB

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by MahomesKnows

Other considerations when comparing OBJ and Smith is who they were blocking for last year vs next year. OBJ got let off the hook many times because Mahomes is magical at getting out of the pocket. Smith was blocking for a statue of Tom Brady. This year, Smith will reap the rewards of Mahomes escapabilty, while OBJ has to try and protect the guy who's led the league in sacks.

Mahomes giveth, Mahomes taketh away, though.

The best QBs the game has ever seen at avoiding sacks were, IMO, Peyton Manning and Joe Montana. And for the Montana argument I can try to go find the year that he and Kreig split snaps and the OL gave up like 2.5 times as many sacks with DK under center vs. Montana.

And neither of those guys could move at all. But they operated razor precise offenses and knew when discretion was the better part of valor. They knew when to quit.

Now Mahomes simply never has a moment where he HAS to quit on a play because he's a superhero. But that also creates a lot of hits and sacks on him.

I don't think Smith will have an easier time of protecting for Mahomes. In fact, in most ways it'll be harder. But ultimately I think he'll just be healthier and that's gonna be a big deal. He's gonna be fine out there.

Or he'll be on the bench with Taylor/Morris starting.

[Ocotillo]

ranking the NFL's best offensive lines:

1. Eagles
2. Lions
3. Ravens
4. Chiefs
5. Browns
6. Packers
7. Broncos
8. Cowboys
9. Falcons
10. Vikings
11. Panthers
12. Chargers
13. Bengals
14. Steelers
15. Raiders
16. Bears
17. 49ers
18. Colts
19. Texans
20. Saints
21. Bills
22.…

— Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) July 13, 2023

[smithandrew051]

Originally Posted by Ocotillo

ranking the NFL's best offensive lines:

1. Eagles
2. Lions
3. Ravens
4. Chiefs
5. Browns
6. Packers
7. Broncos
8. Cowboys
9. Falcons
10. Vikings
11. Panthers
12. Chargers
13. Bengals
14. Steelers
15. Raiders
16. Bears
17. 49ers
18. Colts
19. Texans
20. Saints
21. Bills
22.…

— Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) July 13, 2023

Take this list with a grain of salt until you know what the field turf is like