Let's Talk About Baltimore (AFC Championship)

[SHOWTIME]

Headed back to the AFC Championship Game!!!! Discuss.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by neech

Dan Orlovsky said he tried to find a weakness on the Ravens defense and he said he couldn't find any.

Oh Nooooo

Other than the good offenses they played putting up 25 PPG

[loochy]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Why?

A leg injury shouldn't impact his processing power...

he has the processing power of a solar powered calculator

[pugsnotdrugs19]

I glanced at this highlight package from Rams @ Ravens because there's some factors that could play out similarly this Sunday - weather/wet field, in Baltimore, strong armed QB who improvises some, a couple of good receiving options: https://www.nfl.com/videos/rams-vs-r...lights-week-14

To me, you see it - if you can protect your QB, there's plenty of opportunities to exploit that back end. Humphrey didn't look good in that game and he isn't healthy now. The safeties and linebackers can definitely get mixed up passing things off out of condensed/bunch alignments.

On a wet field, rushing the passer is going to be more difficult. Covering receivers is more difficult. Defense is going to be more difficult.

If we are neutralizing the defenses to a degree with the field conditions, to me that does play more into the Chiefs favor because they have the superior passer who is more likely to win if this does become a shootout.

[loochy]

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

I glanced at this highlight package from Rams @ Ravens because there's some factors that could play out similarly this Sunday - weather/wet field, in Baltimore, strong armed QB who improvises some, a couple of good receiving options: https://www.nfl.com/videos/rams-vs-r...lights-week-14

To me, you see it - if you can protect your QB, there's plenty of opportunities to exploit that back end. Humphrey didn't look good in that game and he isn't healthy now. The safeties and linebackers can definitely get mixed up passing things off out of condensed/bunch alignments.

On a wet field, rushing the passer is going to be more difficult. Covering receivers is more difficult. Defense is going to be more difficult.

If we are neutralizing the defenses to a degree with the field conditions, to me that does play more into the Chiefs favor because they have the superior passer who is more likely to win if this does become a shootout.

but doesn't that mean it will also be easier for lamar to run rampant? that's the part I worry about

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Originally Posted by loochy

but doesn't that mean it will also be easier for lamar to run rampant? that's the part I worry about

Could, but he can only do that so much. Chiefs will probably cage rush mostly anyways, and dare him to pass.

He also has a propensity to slip on his own and if he does that a few times, that might be all it takes to come out ahead.

[OneWinningDrive]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I get how a Ravens' fan might hold that opinion. You did literally win the Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer. Though that took a historically dominant defense (led by a murderer, yeah, that's right, we just refer to Ray Lewis as a murderer around here. He's not bringing any knives with him to the game Sunday when your team honors him, right? That might change my pick of what's going to happen in the game).

But the year you won with Flacco, he elevated his game from "above-average QB" to "elite QB" during that run. He made big-time plays and played at a top-tier level. He wasn't able to sustain that (kind of like Eli Manning, honestly) and fell off, but SB winning Flacco was an elite QB that year (at least during the playoffs).

But look at the teams that have won Super Bowls in the salary cap era. If you don't have an elite-elite guy, the odds are stacked heavily against you.

Elite/HoF guys:
Aikman (2). Young (1). Favre (1). Elway (2). Warner (1). Brady (7). Manning (2). Roethlisberger (2). Eli Manning (2). Brees (1). Rodgers (1). Russel Wilson (1). Mahomes (2).

Really good players who elevated during their run:
Flacco (1). Foles (1). Stafford (1).

Game manager turds with historically good teams around them:
Johnson (1). Dilfer (1).

Point is, yeah, it is POSSIBLE to win with a game manager type at QB and a great, complete roster around them. It's way, way, way harder.

We've seen both sides of this coin (90s and Alex Smith era with the game manager/complete roster approach vs. Mahomes era) and seen how much more consistent and successful the latter is.

So yeah, of course there's focus on the QB play.

Both of these teams have complete, versatile, and tricky defenses. Both have stars at QB. It's pretty clear that which QB is able to better handle the opposing team's strong D is going to carry the day.

Sure, I can accept that having an elite/HOF category QB makes winning a SB easier in the absence of a historically great team otherwise. But the thing is that Lamar is in the elite/HOF category. Two MVPs earns that classification whether people here want to admit it or not. To say that he's not in that category because he hasn't yet won a SB is circular reasoning given that what we're trying to prove is what level of QB you need to win a SB in the first place.

So both teams have that level of QB. No Ravens fan would deny that about the Chiefs, but seemingly every Chiefs fan would deny that about the Ravens. From my view, if they're both in that elite/HOF category, then it's worth looking beyond that to the rest of the rosters. But we never get there because everything devolves to Mahomes > Lamar.

[Woogieman]

Originally Posted by OneWinningDrive

Salute!

I just need to ignore the negative reputation comments telling me "Hope the entire female side of your family gets ass raped tonight." Onward and upward!

I'm with you...when a good poster tries to have an good discussion, the ad homs are cringey, but I will add, CP has dealt with "hit and run" jagoffs that flame and never return/retract like a man, ever since PM started. Throw in all the "Chiefs get all the calls" and Swift stuff that no Chiefs fans care about, and you can understand the short fuses. I think Sunday will be a classic, would a convincing Bal win surprise me? Hardly...we have all seen a team play out of their minds on a SB run. Would a Chiefs upset surprise me? Like many, I buried this team in Dec. (for me it was the raiders loss) only to see a HoF coaching staff make the necessary adjustments to re-animate the O, Kelce hopefully healing, PM reinvigorated by sitting WRs that couldn't sort it out, Edwards-Helaire looking like a rookie, and the OTs minimizing their mind-numbing frequency of errors. Hope it's clean and injury-free on both sides!

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by neech

Dan Orlovsky said he tried to find a weakness on the Ravens defense and he said he couldn't find any.

Oh Nooooo

Roquan Smith being a catastrophe in coverage in Chicago only to become one of the better coverage backers in the league in Baltimore is interesting. Tells me they're just damn well coached in their LBer room (especially since Queen - FINALLY - took a step forward in that regard.)

I'd say their secondary is solid but unspectacular. Stephens, Williams, Darby, Maulet and Ya-Sin are gettable, IMO. And the aforementioned Humphrey, should he play.

They have good depth there; few DB rooms go as deep as ours does and theirs qualifies. But I think our top 3 CBs are better than their top 3 CBs.

It gets more interesting if you just say 'top 5 DBs' though:

Hamilton
Stone
Stephens
Humphrey/Darby
Darby/Maulet

vs.

Sneed
McDuffie
Reid
Williams
Edwards/Conner/Watson

I'd take our guys over their because Sneed is Hamilton in his ability to be a swiss army knife when needed (as is McDuffie) but both guys can also lock down an outside weapon.

It's hard to compare LBs/DLs because we use our so much differently than they do. If you just say "well lets compare the box 7" I think you're probably on the right track. In that regard I think they're pretty damn even.

Smith, Queen, Clowney, Madubuike, Pierce, Van Noy, and Jones/Oweh

vs.

Bolton, Gay, Tranquill, Jones, Karlaftis, Omenihu, Nnadi/Danna

I think we have the best player in the group with Jones but this version of Roquan isn't far behind (and dammit Madubuike got good). Gay and Queen are a wash if Gay is healthy, IMO. Clowney/Karlaftis are similar at this stage as well, though Clowney is still a stud against the run. Then trying to compare anyone else just kinda falls apart. But whatever the gap is either way, I'd hate to have to make a living off the difference. They're both strong units.

Defense may just come down to who coaches the better game.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

I glanced at this highlight package from Rams @ Ravens because there's some factors that could play out similarly this Sunday - weather/wet field, in Baltimore, strong armed QB who improvises some, a couple of good receiving options: https://www.nfl.com/videos/rams-vs-r...lights-week-14

To me, you see it - if you can protect your QB, there's plenty of opportunities to exploit that back end. Humphrey didn't look good in that game and he isn't healthy now. The safeties and linebackers can definitely get mixed up passing things off out of condensed/bunch alignments.

On a wet field, rushing the passer is going to be more difficult. Covering receivers is more difficult. Defense is going to be more difficult.

If we are neutralizing the defenses to a degree with the field conditions, to me that does play more into the Chiefs favor because they have the superior passer who is more likely to win if this does become a shootout.

I’ve watched all of that game. The protection is the key thing. Nacua and Kupp were schemed into a lot of space in that one. Demarcus Robinson also made some nice plays as the third receiving option. Someone stepping up to do that for the Chiefs will be important.

This could be a big Noah Gray game, I think.

[RedinTexas]

Originally Posted by OneWinningDrive

The Ravens don't have a window. There's no sense of urgency. They've been in contention for the entirety of the franchise's history.

I wanted to go back and address this comment. The NFL may say your franchise history only goes back to when the team arrived in Baltimore, but the reality is different. The Ravens are the former Cleveland Browns. They arrived in Baltimore as a fully formed franchise and hit the ground running. That is vastly different from putting together an expansion team from scratch, so let's stop pretending the Ravens franchise records only begin with the arrival in Baltimore.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by neech

Dan Orlovsky said he tried to find a weakness on the Ravens defense and he said he couldn't find any.

Oh Nooooo

He should probably watch the TE's like Kittle that destroyed them. Even Dalton Schultz was getting open several times last week and he's nothing to write home about.

[Raiderhater]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Why?

A leg injury shouldn't impact his processing power...

And he IS a pocket passer after all…

[Whogotitbetter]

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

If we are neutralizing the defenses to a degree with the field conditions, to me that does play more into the Chiefs favor because they have the superior passer who is more likely to win if this does become a shootout.

The thing about that game is that lamar literally outplayed stafford through the air , and stafford has a strong arm, and ontop of top lamar is more mobile then pat, so it makes it more difficult to defend him.

[Woogieman]

But the thing is that Lamar is in the elite/HOF category. Two MVPs earns that classification whether people here want to admit it or not. To say that he's not in that category because he hasn't yet won a SB is circular reasoning given that what we're trying to prove is what level of QB you need to win a SB in the first place.

I personally think he has BECOME elite...it seems experience and the continuity of the Harbaugh regime has helped him riase to a level beyond first MVP year(s). I see a calmer QB that is more accurate than in the past and one who is making much better reads and thinking "run" as last resort, but can still kill you when they call his number. If anyone is slow on Jackson's performance level, it is likely due to his non-traditional style, or a bias consistent with watching every PM game he's ever played, and seeing the Ravens a few times a year...that said, LJ REALLY needs to win this game and have a good SB to cement the "top tier" claim!

[OneWinningDrive]

Originally Posted by Woogieman

I'm with you...when a good poster tries to have an good discussion, the ad homs are cringey, but I will add, CP has dealt with "hit and run" jagoffs that flame and never return/retract like a man, ever since PM started. Throw in all the "Chiefs get all the calls" and Swift stuff that no Chiefs fans care about, and you can understand the short fuses. I think Sunday will be a classic, would a convincing Bal win surprise me? Hardly...we have all seen a team play out of their minds on a SB run. Would a Chiefs upset surprise me? Like many, I buried this team in Dec. (for me it was the raiders loss) only to see a HoF coaching staff make the necessary adjustments to re-animate the O, Kelce hopefully healing, PM reinvigorated by sitting WRs that couldn't sort it out, Edwards-Helaire looking like a rookie, and the OTs minimizing their mind-numbing frequency of errors. Hope it's clean and injury-free on both sides!

That makes sense. I can tell there's definitely some projection in terms of visitors all being lumped in together. Nothing I shouldn't expect, and no one is forcing me to be here.

I personally hope the Ravens/Chiefs can become a bit of a rivalry. The Ravens have had healthy rivalries with the Steelers and Patriots that were mostly defined by mutual respect. No real animosity in the way that most rivalries are defined. The Ravens had to prove they belonged with Pittsburgh/New England before it truly became that since those two teams were entrenched, and they'll need to do that with KC too. But there's a reality where teams can play each other tough and the fanbases begrudgingly respect what the other is about without it turning into vitriol. Steelers/Ravens is honestly a love/hate sort of thing. Doesn't seem like Chiefs fans respect the Ravens very much, but maybe the Ravens winning this weekend will change that.