Let's Talk About Baltimore (AFC Championship)

[SHOWTIME]

Headed back to the AFC Championship Game!!!! Discuss.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by OneWinningDrive

Sure, I can accept that having an elite/HOF category QB makes winning a SB easier in the absence of a historically great team otherwise. But the thing is that Lamar is in the elite/HOF category. Two MVPs earns that classification whether people here want to admit it or not. To say that he's not in that category because he hasn't yet won a SB is circular reasoning given that what we're trying to prove is what level of QB you need to win a SB in the first place.

So both teams have that level of QB. No Ravens fan would deny that about the Chiefs, but seemingly every Chiefs fan would deny that about the Ravens. From my view, if they're both in that elite/HOF category, then it's worth looking beyond that to the rest of the rosters. But we never get there because everything devolves to Mahomes > Lamar.

That seems like a losing argument unless Lamar wins Super Bowls, right?

- Some teams need a Mahomes to prop up their otherwise okay team.
- Some teams (like the Ravens?) don't need elite QBs because they have a historically great team
- Oh, and Lamar is also in the category of elite, just like Mahomes

I mean, his most impressive playoff win is either the Texans last week or the Titans a few years ago... why are we saying OUR bar is Lamar winning the Super Bowl?

He hasn't even won anything with THIS "historically great team" yet, much less raised the bar of his previous teams well beyond what they would accomplish without him.

I get you guys love the regular season... more so than any fanbase who's stopped by, but HoF careers aren't built on the potential that homer fans see in their quartback, it's built on results.

[FloridaMan88]

Originally Posted by OneWinningDrive

If you still don't believe in Lamar as a passer or his ability to come back when the team is trailing, watch the end of the Rams game. The whole drive, but especially the touchdown pass and two-point conversion, are as good as it gets from a pure situational passing perspective.

A regular season game at home vs an okay/not great Rams team is your best example?

Speaking of that game… your thoughts on the Rams shredding that supposedly great Ravens defense?

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

That seems like a losing argument unless Lamar wins Super Bowls, right?

- Some teams need a Mahomes to prop up their otherwise okay team.
- Some teams (like the Ravens?) don't need elite QBs because they have a historically great team
- Oh, and Lamar is also in the category of elite, just like Mahomes

I mean, his most impressive playoff win is either the Texans last week or the Titans a few years ago... why are we saying OUR bar is Lamar winning the Super Bowl?

He hasn't even won anything with THIS "historically great team" yet, much less raised the bar of his previous teams well beyond what they would accomplish without him.

I get you guys love the regular season... more so than any fanbase who's stopped by, but HoF careers aren't built on the potential that homer fans see in their quartback, it's built on results.

He doesn't even have a 500 playoff record...

[FloridaMan88]

Originally Posted by Mecca

He doesn't even have a 500 playoff record...

Baker Mayfield has more playoff wins as a starting QB than Lamar.

That is a pathetically damning indictment of Lamar’s playoff failures.

[smithandrew051]

Originally Posted by Mecca

He doesn't even have a 500 playoff record...

He’s either Russell Westbrook or he’s going to be Steph Curry.

He might be a guy who puts up stats and highlights in the regular season with a style of play that doesn’t translate to postseason success.

Or

He’s the exception and proves that you can win with his unique style of play. We probably forget the negative opinion of high volume 3-point shooting prior to the Warriors. “Live by the 3, die by the 3.”

[Woogieman]

Doesn't seem like Chiefs fans respect the Ravens very much, but maybe the Ravens winning this weekend will change that.[/QUOTE]

I don't think that's the case, I think Chiefs fans appreciate the physical defenses the Ravens always seem to have, the tough running game that reminds us of the fun Schottenheimer era. I think the "us against the world mentality" stems from the constant stream of gross stupidity from the media and other fanbases that simply refuse to acknowledge the amazing run this franchise is on. SB LIV...it was all about the 49ers defense and how lucky the soft Chiefs were that Garopolo overthrew a "wide open" WR. Then they shat upon PM ("Brady destroyed Mahomes")and the team in SB LV without really acknowledging that three OLs (both Pro Bowl) tackles were missing as well as other circumstances (Britt Reid) certainly didn't work in their favor. Same last year with the Eagles historic D and pass rush, which was out-performed by the Chiefs D when it counted. This year, all you have to look at is the talking heads on ESPN and NFL networks, all crushed that the superior Allen was screwed out of his deserved spotlight by a lousy kicker. I don't expect adoration or bootlicking, just high football IQ if you are going to get paid to be on TV. As far as the fans go, they clearly hate PM mostly due to his success, and that's no shock. An adult will root against a player or team, but should be able to admire their success, much like you may have hated the dynasties of the 70s as a kid (Steelers, Cowboys, Dolphins, Raiders) but admitted they were great and look back upon those names with an odd fondness now.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by OneWinningDrive

If you still don't believe in Lamar as a passer or his ability to come back when the team is trailing, watch the end of the Rams game. The whole drive, but especially the touchdown pass and two-point conversion, are as good as it gets from a pure situational passing perspective.

He's certainly gotten better but he hasn't done much against elite defenses.

Steelers had Lamar in hell, Lamar struggled at home against the Browns and I would say the Titans frustrated the hell out of Lamar too.

Lamar did well in SF bc their overrated QB gave the ball away over and over again in their own territory making it impossible for their defense.

The Chiefs are gonna make it really hard on Lamar. He's gonna have to work for it

[Mecca]

Lamar "I don't like playing Patrick Mahomes" Jackson

That quote may end up haunting him.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by OneWinningDrive

I've always thought Lamar is like if Barry Sanders decided he wanted to play quarterback and also had arm talent. I know it's meant as some sort of disparaging remark, but I honestly think it's pretty cool to watch something different that still works at the highest levels

YOU'RE PROUD THAT LAMAR JACKSON IS A RACIST????!!!!!!!!!

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Mecca

He doesn't even have a 500 playoff record...

And the funniest part is there have been about ten thousand mentions of this 2nd regular season MVP award while also mentioning "historically great team" and DVOA many times... the latter clearly undermines the award.

They don't NEED a franchise QB (their point, not mine), the historically great team would be fine.... yet, Lamar is the most valuable player in the entire league, because without him the Ravens may have uh, only won 11 games this year?

[FloridaMan88]

If Baltimore can’t take advantage of their opportunity this year then it will never happen for them with Lamar.

Consider…

They were gifted with Burrow being injured and taking away their primary challenger in the AFC North.

Pittsburgh and Cleveland also dealt with QB injuries in their division as well.

They finally got a full season of Lamar healthy.

All of these sequence of occurrences aren’t likely to happen again.

The pressure on Lamar and the Ravens to not choke this opportunity away is massive on Sunday.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

I have this as about the 4th or 5th most difficult opponent we've played under Mahomes in the playoffs, so....

[OneWinningDrive]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

That seems like a losing argument unless Lamar wins Super Bowls, right?

- Some teams need a Mahomes to prop up their otherwise okay team.
- Some teams (like the Ravens?) don't need elite QBs because they have a historically great team
- Oh, and Lamar is also in the category of elite, just like Mahomes

I mean, his most impressive playoff win is either the Texans last week or the Titans a few years ago... why are we saying OUR bar is Lamar winning the Super Bowl?

He hasn't even won anything with THIS "historically great team" yet, much less raised the bar of his previous teams well beyond what they would accomplish without him.

I get you guys love the regular season... more so than any fanbase who's stopped by, but HoF careers aren't built on the potential that homer fans see in their quartback, it's built on results.

I was just trying to use Duncan's framework for elite/HOF QB --> increased odds of winning a SB. A 2x MVP certainly qualifies as an elite/HOF QB, so that should mean the Ravens have an increased chance of winning a SB.

Separately, you've got the wrong franchise if you're going to act like all Ravens fans know is regular season succes. The Ravens have the second most road playoff wins of all time behind only the Cowboys and Packers who are tied with one more win. That in less than 30 years of existing. This franchise knows postseason success.

And besides, the regular season matters in the NFL. That's what makes it so great. It's not like the MLB or NBA where it hardly makes any difference having an extra home game in a seven-game series. Teams try very hard in the regular season in the NFL. There's no load management. Getting a bye matters. And the Ravens have done that twice in the past five years. That automatically advances them a round.

The relentless narrative here is about the Lamar Jackson era playoff record (all the while ignoring the Ravens playoff record before that, which matters if you're going to talk about "us guys" as a franchise/fanbase). But the fact is that in the three years other than his 21-year-old rookie year when he took over halfway through the season and led the team to the playoffs, Lamar has been in the divisional round each time. This year in the AFC championship game. The regular season success has meant he hasn't needed to play gimme first-round games a couple of times, which you're dinging him for.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Lamar has about a 2 to 3 year window. This is it for them. That style of play doesn't last in this league....plus he's soft.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Hell, the Jimmy Grapes Niners were more intimidating