***Official 2024 STL Cardinals Thread ***

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

TON couldn't stay healthy for more than 80 games a season, that one ain't on the Cards and we will see how it plays out.

Hicks tearing it up as a starter is a whole different story.

A portion of the TON thing is absolutely on the Cards. Olli destroyed any chance of repairing that relationship with his bullshit.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by raybec 4

A portion of the TON thing is absolutely on the Cards. Olli destroyed any chance of repairing that relationship with his bullshit.

Weird how his health suddenly declined and got real mysterious shortly after the manager shit on him for no reason and then the organization threw him under the bus to protect their sock-puppet manager.

Can't imagine why.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Weird how his health suddenly declined and got real mysterious shortly after the manager shit on him for no reason and then the organization threw him under the bus to protect their sock-puppet manager.

Can't imagine why.

Come on man, lets not get too revisionist history here. His health didn't suddenly decline he had 1 outlier year he played in 141 games.

The Marmol incident was last year correct?

TON games played in STL he averaged 81 games a year with Shildt as his manager. He averaged 80 games a season his entire 5 year stint in STL.

2018 - 61 - Matheny fired Schildt interim
2019- 60 Shildt manger
2020- 51 - Shildt Manager
2021-141 ( amazing) Shildt manager
2022 - 90 Marmol
2023- 71 Marmol

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Come on man, lets not get too revisionist history here. His health didn't suddenly decline he had 1 outlier year he played in 141 games.

The Marmol incident was last year correct?

TON games played in STL he averaged 81 games a year with Shildt as his manager. He averaged 80 games a season his entire 5 year stint in STL.

2018 - 61 - Matheny fired Schildt interim
2019- 60 Shildt manger
2020- 51 - Shildt Manager
2021-141 ( amazing) Shildt manager
2022 - 90 Marmol
2023- 71 Marmol

Nobody's saying he's Lou Gehrig but you're also not being entirely fair here.

2018 was a partial season - he wasn't hurt, he started the season in the minors and earned his call-up. I think maybe he had a little injury in there that cost him a couple weeks but I honestly don't care about those that much. He was mostly healthy that year.

2020 was the COVID year - they played 58 games.

2019 was a little of A and a little of B. He was bad, got demoted, got himself back to the bigs, started for a bit, got hurt and missed most of August before he came back in a bench role.

22 was undeniably a cluster**** of injuries which led to changes in his training regimen. He even talked about how he was changing the way he ran the bases to avoid those sort of soft tissue injuries. Then on a play where he did precisely what he said he'd do (throttle down and tighten his turn) and in the process actually ran a BETTER 2nd to home time than his average, he got bawled out by his manager and screwed by his GM.

And he quit on the team.

O'Neill will probably get hurt again this season. It's what he do. But I think a motivated O'Neill gives you All-Star caliber production when he's on the field and can probably give you 120-130 games.

And we traded him for nothing. Now he's killing it. And if he does repeat his 2019 season it will be the same excuse making from folks that it was for every other guy Mozeliak traded away for nothing to see excel elsewhere.

Because there's ALWAYS an excuse. After the first half dozen examples, maybe stop making them.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Because there's ALWAYS an excuse. After the first half dozen examples, maybe stop making them.

There's a lot to criticize Mozeliak for, and deservedly so, but there's also a bunch of shit that I don't know how you can entirely blame on him.

-Taveras dying
-Piscotty's mom getting ALS
-Adolis Garcia becoming an All Star out of nowhere at age 28 after being DFA'd and passed over by every team when being DFA'd by Texas
-Craig suffering a career altering foot injury
-Alcantara becoming a CYA winner after having a profile that projected better as a reliever in Memphis given his control and Ozuna not working out

That doesn't excuse everything else like:
-Leake
-Cecil
-Panic signing Holland at the worst possible time instead of earlier in the off-season
-Throwing Contrera under the bus when he was doing exactly what he's done his entire career
-Saying the rotation in 2023 was going to be fine
-Running Carpenter and PDJ onto the field every day when they shouldn't have been playing everyday
-****ing over Wong
-Matheny
-Having a horrendous rotation and bullpen in 2021 that he had to frankentein for innings
-Ruining Carlson's confidence

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

O'Neill will probably get hurt again this season. It's what he do. But I think a motivated O'Neill gives you All-Star caliber production when he's on the field and can probably give you 120-130 games.

And we traded him for nothing. Now he's killing it. And if he does repeat his 2019 season it will be the same excuse making from folks that it was for every other guy Mozeliak traded away for nothing to see excel elsewhere.

Because there's ALWAYS an excuse. After the first half dozen examples, maybe stop making them.

I'm not making excuses for MO, I want him fired 2 years ago, but TON isn't a hill to die on, I wanted him gone just like I wanted Flaherty gone.

And Flaherty looks like he is doing JF yo yo things in Detroit already.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

I'm not making excuses for MO, I want him fired 2 years ago, but TON isn't a hill to die on, I wanted him gone just like I wanted Flaherty gone.

And Flaherty looks like he is doing JF yo yo things in Detroit already.

The only issue I have with Flaherty is the asswipe return they got from him from the most loaded farm system in recent memory.

Instead of getting 1 good prospect, they got 3 C- ones. 2 are fringe big leaguers at best and the third is faaaaaar away and a pitching prospect that's unlikely to pan out.

And for all the thoughts that "oh well he just didn't have much value" - the guy's value only went down in Baltimore. And he got $14 million in free agency. There was clearly some value there.

And we got slappy mcslaphitter with no defensive versatility, very possibly the worst starting pitcher I've ever seen (he's essentially Mike Maroth) and an 11th round draft pick with 30 professional innings under his belt.

We got 3 nickels instead of a dime. Because Mozeliak has no idea what the dimes actually are so he's gonna take his 3 nickels and throw them in a slot machine in the hopes one of them becomes that dime. Knowing full well that the odds overwhelmingly suggest they won't.

In lieu of insight and evaluation, he pursues volume and hopes for the best. Because he's ****ing awful at his job.