Mitch Holthus on Des Moines radio daily during camp...updates here - Page 12

htismaqe · 07:28 AM

8/18 Update posted by htismaqe
Hinted (like he hinted Monday about Tynes' arrest) that Todd Collins was in trouble. More to come later today from the St. Paul Pioneer Press.

Vermeil appeared to have Tynes' back, but he was visibly upset with the kicker at other times. Still thinks competition will be brought in.

Surtain has been the star of camp. Said even though the guy is a top NFL CB, he approached camp like he was fighting for the 53rd spot on the roster. Great player and great example. Derrick Johnson is legit and has the chance to be up there with DT, Lanier, and Bell.

On the offensive side, talked alot about LJ and the o-line, and how stellar Roaf and Waters have been.

-------------------------------

8/16 Update posted by jspchief
Talked about Gunther on the rampage.

Morning practice, he tore Grigsby a new asshole for mistakes lining up.

Afternoon practice, he told Alphonso Hodge that he can find 100,000 people to do the job as good as he is, and that he fired the last player that played like that. Apparently Hodge talked back to him at that point, which can't be good for your lifespan.

Coaches that win a superbowl with one team have never won one with the next team.

Vermeil is frustrated with all the man hours missed. Is tired of guys sitting out for every little nick.

Some scrub from ISU quit the team.

Talked a bit about Bell, but didn't say anything that hasn't been in the other threads. Practicing in pads, but not hitting.

-------------------------------
8/15 Update posted by htismaqe
The news is not good boys.

The Chiefs gave up 8 plays over 15 yards. Gunther is beyond furious, Mitch said he was "beside himself". Jared Allen has been demoted, Jimmy Wilkerson is now starting.

Kevin Sampson has a toe tendon problem, out 2-3 weeks. Todd Collins has a possible fracture, out 2-3 weeks. Holcombe will be out 6 weeks.

He said Lawrence Tynes had a bad weekend "on and off the field". When asked to elaborate about the "off the field" comment, he hemmed and hawed and never did answer. Tynes must have gotten drunk too. Anyway, he said there will likely be competition brought into camp. The good news is that Tynes didn't miss a kick yesterday.

Will Shields participated in workouts and could see full practice later this week, so that's at least one good thing.
-------------------------------

8/12 Update posted by htismaqe
Talked about the game. Starters will play slightly more than 1 quarter, except for Priest, LJ, Green, Gonzo. They will likely play only a couple of series'. Shields won't play. Bell won't play. Dunn is out.

-------------------------------
8/11 Update posted by htismaqe
Not much today. Priest and Tony were "dancing like spring chickens" last night so that was good news.

Talked mostly about the defense and the need to create turnovers. Forget yards, the defense last year had only 21 takeaways (franchise record) and 85 plays of longer than 20 yards (NFL average is 55).

-------------------------------
8/10 Update posted by htismaqe
Talked about the WR's. Said, after Kennison, there isn't anybody that stands out. They're all the same. Talked a bit about Booth and McIntyre and their stints in NFLE. Said Freddie is still out, he tried to talk to him last night and Freddie just kinda grumbled and groaned and kept walking. Said that everybody at the position (WR) could be a 1-2 catch guy to compliment Holmes, Gonzo, and WILSON. Yes, he mentioned Wilson in the same breath as Holmes and Gonzales. Said the team will likely keep only 5 maybe 6 WR's.

He said the team is much healthier already. Both Priest and Gonzo were back last night and looking better. Not sure about LJ.

-------------------------------
8/9 Update posted by htismaqe
Concerned about special teams because of loss of Blaylock and Beisel. Said Boomer or Scanlon is going to have to step up. The good news is that Benny Sapp is turning into a monster on special teams.

Also concerned about reps on Friday vs. the Vikings. Gonzo is better, wasn't limping much last night, but he won't play. Dunn won't play. Priest probably won't play. Larry Johnson is now dinged up, minor, but might not play.

-------------------------------
8/8 Update posted by htismaqe
Very concerned about Tony's foot. He was limping pretty bad all weekend. Seemed concerned about Jason Dunn too.

Greg Wesley looks like he's out to prove that he's still a hitter. Layed a hit on Priest like you wouldn't believe. Derrick Johnson also looks like he's on a mission to let everyone know he's not afraid of contact like the draftniks said.

Talked again about Gunther unleashed, about the fights, and about the defense's passion.

Finally he said there's going to be a couple of games where the defense and LJ have to carry this team.

-------------------------------
8/5 Update posted by htismaqe
Was asked about Priest's concussion. Said the defense has been unleashed by Gunther, tired of being picked on. In goal line drills (when Priest got hurt) the defense stuffed them EVERY time except...

When Larry Johnson carried the ball. He was just too strong and drug people into the end zone. Easily the offensive MVP of camp so far.

Was asked about the fighting and if it was desired. Said "NO QUESTION" emphatically. Said the intensity is way up, especially on defense, and it's been missing for far too long. Vermeil has asked Gunther to go balls to the wall this year, leave it all on the field.

Said Bo is silently having a good camp and that he separates himself easily from the other WR's because he's 1) 4 inches taller and 2) a key to our ST's.

That's about all I can remember.

-------------------------------
8/4 Update posted by jspchief
Talking LBs mostly.

Said he doesn't think Woods or Fujita make the team, barring a string of injuries at either position.

That's about it. Short interview. Told interesting story about hot Svitek got to America.

-------------------------------
8/3 Update posted by htismaqe
Anyway, he did clarify or expound on a couple of his statements from previous interviews:

1) We have to get off to a good start this year. Yesterday, it was about the assistants looking for other jobs. Today it was the danger that a poor start would cause everybody -- players, coaches, and fans -- knowing that this is Vermeil's last year, to start discussing who the next coach would be instead of worrying about this season. I think from the brew-ha-ha yesterday we had on the very subject, despite the fact that the season hasn't even started, shows that he's probably right.

2) Ferentz being mentioned as a HC candidate. Bob Stoops would be in there too.

The only thing of substance that he talked about was YET ANOTHER back injury, this time to Jason Dunn.

-------------------------------
8/2 Update posted by htismaqe
Dexter McCleon IS the starter opposite Surtain. Not only that but Sapp is the nickel. Ambrose and Washington are both quite a bit behind. (Interestingly enough, I heard DA say the same thing on 610 about 30 minutes later).

Also, this year is not like last year. If we go 1-3 we could be done. This is Vermeil's last year and if we start out slow, the assistants could just start looking for jobs instead of focusing.

He also said that Kirk Ferentz' name has been whispered around Arrowhead.

-------------------------------
8/1 Update posted by htismaqe
I heard most of the part about the coaches and what's going on there:

Vermeil and Peterson have told Saunders, no excuses get Larry Johnson on the field -- Holthus editorialized a bit, said LJ looks SUPERB so far in camp

Gunther and Saunders may have it out at some point during camp. There's been a few fights. Vermeil asked Gunther to tone it down a bit last year, but this year Vermeil has let him go back to being his old self. Saunders and Gunther have the giveaways/takeaways on a huge poster in the locker room and the defense right now is +8. Gunther rubs it in every chance he gets.

That's really the big stuff I heard him say. Mitchell's injury didn't sound serious, he was confident Shields would be fine (although he did say it was a little concerning), Wiegmann looks rejuvinated, and Priest looks like a "spring chicken".

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-02-2005, 02:21 PM

Htismaq,

You've convinced me. I now hope the Chiefs fire everybody, turn over 2/3 of their roster in the next 3 years so that the new head coach (who'd obviously be an inexperienced NFL head coach and who's name is not Al Saunders) can immediately implement his Master Plan of reaching the Super Bowl. Great! Sign me up! I'm already a bandwagon fan for the new Mystery Coach/Savior of the Chiefs! Woo-hoo!

BTW, EVERY team's goal is to win the Super Bowl, not just a few select teams, but EVERY team.

Dane

jspchief · 08-02-2005, 02:21 PM

You could certainly argue both sides. Whatever "unknown" we would have with Saunders certainly wouldn't be lessened by hiring a college coach.

The problem I see with with giving Saunders the job is that too often these coords-turned-head-coach try too hard to continue what the team had going, only they don't have the talent to do it.

However many years Green may have left in him, odds are that he will be on the decline soon. Coupled with the loss of two HoF O-lineman, and it seems likely to come sooner rather than later. I don't want Saunders trying to bring in another QB that fits the style because it so rarely works.

Also, like I mentioned in an earlier post, the front office doesn't feel that Saunders (or Gun) are well suited to deal with the influx of youth and inexperience that this team is facing. That's where I think a young coach that focuses on fundamentals, and is more in tune with today's athletes will be more effective.

Brock · 08-02-2005, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

BTW, EVERY team's goal is to win the Super Bowl, not just a few select teams, but EVERY team.

Dane

Meet the Bidwells.

htismaqe · 08-02-2005, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

ok, I'll GO read a BOOK of statistics and figure out WHY we don't have THE luxury of HIRING a good coach...and MAYBE it will tell me what IT means to randomly CAPITALIZE words...

te bottom line is you don't want AS to be the next coach and others do, that's fine...but it has nothing to do with statistics or any other pseudo-rational approaches...

I capitalize words for EMPHASIS. I use caps instead of italics because italics require the use of tags and I'm LAZY.

I never said we don't have the luxury of hiring a good coach. I'm saying a great percentage of the coordinators that have gone on to be great head coaches and won Super Bowls did so prior to this day and age of parity and free agency.

It does have to do with statistics -- the majority of great coordinators that go on to be head coaches never succeed. It's not pseudo-rational, it's cold hard fact.

But you are right, it all boils down to preference.

htismaqe · 08-02-2005, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Htismaq,

You've convinced me. I now hope the Chiefs fire everybody, turn over 2/3 of their roster in the next 3 years so that the new head coach (who'd obviously be an inexperienced NFL head coach and who's name is not Al Saunders) can immediately implement his Master Plan of reaching the Super Bowl. Great! Sign me up! I'm already a bandwagon fan for the new Mystery Coach/Savior of the Chiefs! Woo-hoo!

BTW, EVERY team's goal is to win the Super Bowl, not just a few select teams, but EVERY team.

Dane

There's no reason to patronize me, unless you're intent on looking like an ass.

The Chiefs will turn over 2/3 of their roster in the next 3 years whether they, you, or I want them to. That is the nature of today's NFL and free agency. There's no such thing as roster continuity. And with the ages of some of the guys on offense, it's an inevitable reality.

I'm sorry you don't agree with my opinion. It's too bad you couldn't deal with it in a less childish fashion.

htismaqe · 08-02-2005, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

You could certainly argue both sides. Whatever "unknown" we would have with Saunders certainly wouldn't be lessened by hiring a college coach.

The problem I see with with giving Saunders the job is that too often these coords-turned-head-coach try too hard to continue what the team had going, only they don't have the talent to do it.

However many years Green may have left in him, odds are that he will be on the decline soon. Coupled with the loss of two HoF O-lineman, and it seems likely to come sooner rather than later. I don't want Saunders trying to bring in another QB that fits the style because it so rarely works.

Also, like I mentioned in an earlier post, the front office doesn't feel that Saunders (or Gun) are well suited to deal with the influx of youth and inexperience that this team is facing. That's where I think a young coach that focuses on fundamentals, and is more in tune with today's athletes will be more effective.

Oh man, are you going to get flamed.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-02-2005, 02:31 PM

Htismaq,

Come on Dude! I'm just teasing you! Look, we obviously don't agree about the future of the coaching staff, plain and simple. You don't agree with my side of the argument and I don't agree with yours. But I'd like to think that I can post a sarcastic statement with out being viewed as childlike.

Dane

htismaqe · 08-02-2005, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Htismaq,

Come on Dude! I'm just teasing you! Look, we obviously don't agree about the future of the coaching staff, plain and simple. You don't agree with my side of the argument and I don't agree with yours. But I'd like to think that I can post a sarcastic statement with out being viewed as childlike.

Dane

Ah, ok. It's all good.

I think I'll be the 20th person in the last 2 days saying we need a sarcasm smilie.

Sorry about that.

htismaqe · 08-02-2005, 02:33 PM

By the way, I said childISH, not child-LIKE.

Those are 2 pretty different things.

**dirk digler** · 08-02-2005, 02:35 PM

I am in agreement with Parker on this one. CP is in charge so he won't hire Al since they don't get along. The next head coach could/will be:

1. Herm Edwards
2. Bill Cowher
3. Stoops or Ferentz

CP will pick the guy he is most comfortable with and that aint Al.

shakesthecat · 08-02-2005, 02:39 PM

I'm gonna be pissed if Raef LaFrentz is hired.

htismaqe · 08-02-2005, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakesthecat

I'm gonna be pissed if Raef LaFrentz is hired.

**dirk digler** · 08-02-2005, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakesthecat

I'm gonna be pissed if Raef LaFrentz is hired.

Me too.

Damn brain fart.

milkman · 08-02-2005, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

You could certainly argue both sides. Whatever "unknown" we would have with Saunders certainly wouldn't be lessened by hiring a college coach.

The problem I see with with giving Saunders the job is that too often these coords-turned-head-coach try too hard to continue what the team had going, only they don't have the talent to do it.

However many years Green may have left in him, odds are that he will be on the decline soon. Coupled with the loss of two HoF O-lineman, and it seems likely to come sooner rather than later. I don't want Saunders trying to bring in another QB that fits the style because it so rarely works.

Also, like I mentioned in an earlier post, the front office doesn't feel that Saunders (or Gun) are well suited to deal with the influx of youth and inexperience that this team is facing. That's where I think a young coach that focuses on fundamentals, and is more in tune with today's athletes will be more effective.

I recall reading an article about Saunders and his possible future as a HC, and one of the things he mentioned in answering questions was that he learned from his SD experience that rather than trying to continue doing what has worked in the past with different players, he should have, and will in future opportunities, adapt to the players he has.

I think what he has accomplished as the OC actually provides evidence that he learned that lesson well.

Chiefs Pantalones · 08-02-2005, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SideWinder

I recall reading an article about Saunders and his possible future as a HC, and one of the things he mentioned in answering questions was that he learned from his SD experience that rather than trying to continue doing what has worked in the past with different players, he should have, and will in future opportunities, adapt to the players he has.

I think what he has accomplished as the OC actually provides evidence that he learned that lesson well.

I agree.

08-01-2005, 07:23 AM
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $8079900	Holthus on Des Moines radio...only caught part of it... 8/18 Update posted by htismaqe Hinted (like he hinted Monday about Tynes' arrest) that Todd Collins was in trouble. More to come later today from the St. Paul Pioneer Press. Vermeil appeared to have Tynes' back, but he was visibly upset with the kicker at other times. Still thinks competition will be brought in. Surtain has been the star of camp. Said even though the guy is a top NFL CB, he approached camp like he was fighting for the 53rd spot on the roster. Great player and great example. Derrick Johnson is legit and has the chance to be up there with DT, Lanier, and Bell. On the offensive side, talked alot about LJ and the o-line, and how stellar Roaf and Waters have been. ------------------------------- 8/16 Update posted by jspchief Talked about Gunther on the rampage. Morning practice, he tore Grigsby a new asshole for mistakes lining up. Afternoon practice, he told Alphonso Hodge that he can find 100,000 people to do the job as good as he is, and that he fired the last player that played like that. Apparently Hodge talked back to him at that point, which can't be good for your lifespan. Coaches that win a superbowl with one team have never won one with the next team. Vermeil is frustrated with all the man hours missed. Is tired of guys sitting out for every little nick. Some scrub from ISU quit the team. Talked a bit about Bell, but didn't say anything that hasn't been in the other threads. Practicing in pads, but not hitting. ------------------------------- 8/15 Update posted by htismaqe The news is not good boys. The Chiefs gave up 8 plays over 15 yards. Gunther is beyond furious, Mitch said he was "beside himself". Jared Allen has been demoted, Jimmy Wilkerson is now starting. Kevin Sampson has a toe tendon problem, out 2-3 weeks. Todd Collins has a possible fracture, out 2-3 weeks. Holcombe will be out 6 weeks. He said Lawrence Tynes had a bad weekend "on and off the field". When asked to elaborate about the "off the field" comment, he hemmed and hawed and never did answer. Tynes must have gotten drunk too. Anyway, he said there will likely be competition brought into camp. The good news is that Tynes didn't miss a kick yesterday. Will Shields participated in workouts and could see full practice later this week, so that's at least one good thing. ------------------------------- 8/12 Update posted by htismaqe Talked about the game. Starters will play slightly more than 1 quarter, except for Priest, LJ, Green, Gonzo. They will likely play only a couple of series'. Shields won't play. Bell won't play. Dunn is out. ------------------------------- 8/11 Update posted by htismaqe Not much today. Priest and Tony were "dancing like spring chickens" last night so that was good news. Talked mostly about the defense and the need to create turnovers. Forget yards, the defense last year had only 21 takeaways (franchise record) and 85 plays of longer than 20 yards (NFL average is 55). ------------------------------- 8/10 Update posted by htismaqe Talked about the WR's. Said, after Kennison, there isn't anybody that stands out. They're all the same. Talked a bit about Booth and McIntyre and their stints in NFLE. Said Freddie is still out, he tried to talk to him last night and Freddie just kinda grumbled and groaned and kept walking. Said that everybody at the position (WR) could be a 1-2 catch guy to compliment Holmes, Gonzo, and WILSON. Yes, he mentioned Wilson in the same breath as Holmes and Gonzales. Said the team will likely keep only 5 maybe 6 WR's. He said the team is much healthier already. Both Priest and Gonzo were back last night and looking better. Not sure about LJ. ------------------------------- 8/9 Update posted by htismaqe Concerned about special teams because of loss of Blaylock and Beisel. Said Boomer or Scanlon is going to have to step up. The good news is that Benny Sapp is turning into a monster on special teams. Also concerned about reps on Friday vs. the Vikings. Gonzo is better, wasn't limping much last night, but he won't play. Dunn won't play. Priest probably won't play. Larry Johnson is now dinged up, minor, but might not play. ------------------------------- 8/8 Update posted by htismaqe Very concerned about Tony's foot. He was limping pretty bad all weekend. Seemed concerned about Jason Dunn too. Greg Wesley looks like he's out to prove that he's still a hitter. Layed a hit on Priest like you wouldn't believe. Derrick Johnson also looks like he's on a mission to let everyone know he's not afraid of contact like the draftniks said. Talked again about Gunther unleashed, about the fights, and about the defense's passion. Finally he said there's going to be a couple of games where the defense and LJ have to carry this team. ------------------------------- 8/5 Update posted by htismaqe Was asked about Priest's concussion. Said the defense has been unleashed by Gunther, tired of being picked on. In goal line drills (when Priest got hurt) the defense stuffed them EVERY time except... When Larry Johnson carried the ball. He was just too strong and drug people into the end zone. Easily the offensive MVP of camp so far. Was asked about the fighting and if it was desired. Said "NO QUESTION" emphatically. Said the intensity is way up, especially on defense, and it's been missing for far too long. Vermeil has asked Gunther to go balls to the wall this year, leave it all on the field. Said Bo is silently having a good camp and that he separates himself easily from the other WR's because he's 1) 4 inches taller and 2) a key to our ST's. That's about all I can remember. ------------------------------- 8/4 Update posted by jspchief Talking LBs mostly. Said he doesn't think Woods or Fujita make the team, barring a string of injuries at either position. That's about it. Short interview. Told interesting story about hot Svitek got to America. ------------------------------- 8/3 Update posted by htismaqe Anyway, he did clarify or expound on a couple of his statements from previous interviews: 1) We have to get off to a good start this year. Yesterday, it was about the assistants looking for other jobs. Today it was the danger that a poor start would cause everybody -- players, coaches, and fans -- knowing that this is Vermeil's last year, to start discussing who the next coach would be instead of worrying about this season. I think from the brew-ha-ha yesterday we had on the very subject, despite the fact that the season hasn't even started, shows that he's probably right. 2) Ferentz being mentioned as a HC candidate. Bob Stoops would be in there too. The only thing of substance that he talked about was YET ANOTHER back injury, this time to Jason Dunn. ------------------------------- 8/2 Update posted by htismaqe Dexter McCleon IS the starter opposite Surtain. Not only that but Sapp is the nickel. Ambrose and Washington are both quite a bit behind. (Interestingly enough, I heard DA say the same thing on 610 about 30 minutes later). Also, this year is not like last year. If we go 1-3 we could be done. This is Vermeil's last year and if we start out slow, the assistants could just start looking for jobs instead of focusing. He also said that Kirk Ferentz' name has been whispered around Arrowhead. ------------------------------- 8/1 Update posted by htismaqe I heard most of the part about the coaches and what's going on there: Vermeil and Peterson have told Saunders, no excuses get Larry Johnson on the field -- Holthus editorialized a bit, said LJ looks SUPERB so far in camp Gunther and Saunders may have it out at some point during camp. There's been a few fights. Vermeil asked Gunther to tone it down a bit last year, but this year Vermeil has let him go back to being his old self. Saunders and Gunther have the giveaways/takeaways on a huge poster in the locker room and the defense right now is +8. Gunther rubs it in every chance he gets. That's really the big stuff I heard him say. Mitchell's injury didn't sound serious, he was confident Shields would be fine (although he did say it was a little concerning), Wiegmann looks rejuvinated, and Priest looks like a "spring chicken". Last edited by htismaqe; 08-18-2005 at 07:28 AM..
Posts: 104,450

08-02-2005, 02:21 PM	#166
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	Htismaq, You've convinced me. I now hope the Chiefs fire everybody, turn over 2/3 of their roster in the next 3 years so that the new head coach (who'd obviously be an inexperienced NFL head coach and who's name is not Al Saunders) can immediately implement his Master Plan of reaching the Super Bowl. Great! Sign me up! I'm already a bandwagon fan for the new Mystery Coach/Savior of the Chiefs! Woo-hoo! BTW, EVERY team's goal is to win the Super Bowl, not just a few select teams, but EVERY team. Dane
Posts: 88,960

08-02-2005, 02:21 PM	#167
jspchief BAMF Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Your Face Casino cash: $9998710	You could certainly argue both sides. Whatever "unknown" we would have with Saunders certainly wouldn't be lessened by hiring a college coach. The problem I see with with giving Saunders the job is that too often these coords-turned-head-coach try too hard to continue what the team had going, only they don't have the talent to do it. However many years Green may have left in him, odds are that he will be on the decline soon. Coupled with the loss of two HoF O-lineman, and it seems likely to come sooner rather than later. I don't want Saunders trying to bring in another QB that fits the style because it so rarely works. Also, like I mentioned in an earlier post, the front office doesn't feel that Saunders (or Gun) are well suited to deal with the influx of youth and inexperience that this team is facing. That's where I think a young coach that focuses on fundamentals, and is more in tune with today's athletes will be more effective. __________________ Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all.
Posts: 27,207

08-02-2005, 02:31 PM	#172
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	Htismaq, Come on Dude! I'm just teasing you! Look, we obviously don't agree about the future of the coaching staff, plain and simple. You don't agree with my side of the argument and I don't agree with yours. But I'd like to think that I can post a sarcastic statement with out being viewed as childlike. Dane
Posts: 88,960

08-02-2005, 02:33 PM	#174
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $8079900	By the way, I said childISH, not child-LIKE. Those are 2 pretty different things.
Posts: 104,450

08-02-2005, 02:35 PM	#175
dirk digler Please squeeze Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Clinton, MO Casino cash: $94644	I am in agreement with Parker on this one. CP is in charge so he won't hire Al since they don't get along. The next head coach could/will be: 1. Herm Edwards 2. Bill Cowher 3. Stoops or Ferentz CP will pick the guy he is most comfortable with and that aint Al. Last edited by dirk digler; 08-02-2005 at 02:50 PM.. Reason: Brain Fart
Posts: 67,123

08-02-2005, 02:39 PM	#176
shakesthecat Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: IA Casino cash: $1773833	I'm gonna be pissed if Raef LaFrentz is hired.
Posts: 3,360