It’s expensive, but it’s baaaahaaad.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by Metrolike

I'm sure you know this, but there are whole websites dedicated to the F-22 vs. Su-35/37 hypothetical dogfights.

1. Russian pilots versus American pilots. Sorry, but the training isn't comparable.

2. Non-stealth versus stealth. Kind hard to fight when you're already dead.

3. American avionics are still FAR superior to Russian.

4. Sure the SUs can do some really cool tricks, but the odds of the SUs surviving long enough for the "Cobra" and other stuff to come into play are very low.

The old adage of "he who sees the other guy first and shoots first, wins" is still very applicable to 5G aircraft.

[Pants]

Originally Posted by Donger

1. Russian pilots versus American pilots. Sorry, but the training isn't comparable.

2. Non-stealth versus stealth. Kind hard to fight when you're already dead.

3. American avionics are still FAR superior to Russian.

4. Sure the SUs can do some really cool tricks, but the odds of the SUs surviving long enough for the "Cobra" and other stuff to come into play are very low.

The old adage of "he who sees the other guy first and shoots first, wins" is still very applicable to 5G aircraft.

No such thing as stealth.

And I was purely talking plane vs plane. Nothing more. Imagine equally skilled pilots, ideal weather conditions, etc.

[Logical]

Originally Posted by Metrolike

No such thing as stealth.

I refer you to my post one post before yours. I assure you as an engineer in the aerospace industry that this is not a good premise to work from.

[morphius]

Originally Posted by Vlad Logicslav

I refer you to my post one post before yours. I assure you as an engineer in the aerospace industry that this is not a good premise to work from.

But I read it on the web, it HAS to be true!

[Donger]

Originally Posted by Metrolike

No such thing as stealth.

Pure stealth? No. All stealth aircraft have some RCS.

But, considering that the F-15Cs that got their asses handed to them recently didn't even detect the Raptors, and the C has one of the best radar systems in the world, forgive me for if I don't believe that the Russians would do any better (or even come close).

[Donger]

Originally Posted by Metrolike

No such thing as stealth.

And I was purely talking plane vs plane. Nothing more. Imagine equally skilled pilots, ideal weather conditions, etc.

In a pure ACM, it would be a good fight. But that's not real world.

[Pants]

Originally Posted by Donger

In a pure ACM, it would be a good fight. But that's not real world.

I would seriously pay good money to see competitive training exercises between Americans and russkies. F-22 vs Su-35.

[HC_Chief]

Originally Posted by Metrolike

I would seriously pay good money to see competitive training exercises between Americans and russkies. F-22 vs Su-35.

35 would be shot down prior to sight range. The SU avionics and in-flight radar systems would only detect the IR missiles prior to splash.

The days of the close-in dogfight are over. A2A combat isn't a fair fight - it's standoff weaponry nailing targets 25-150miles down range.

The SU-35 has superior thrust-vectoring; the rooskies excel in that technology. Problem is with their radar and guidance systems. They are way behind in that regard. Due to that fact, they'd be splashed w/o even knowing where the shots came from.

Hell, that holds true for facing Tomcats & the Phoenix AAM... Phoenix is the size of a Volkswagon van; launches at targets at 100+ miles.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by HC_Chief

35 would be shot down prior to sight range. The SU avionics and in-flight radar systems would only detect the IR missiles prior to splash.

The days of the close-in dogfight are over. A2A combat isn't a fair fight - it's standoff weaponry nailing targets 25-150miles down range.

The SU-35 has superior thrust-vectoring; the rooskies excel in that technology. Problem is with their radar and guidance systems. They are way behind in that regard. Due to that fact, they'd be splashed w/o even knowing where the shots came from.

Hell, that holds true for facing Tomcats & the Phoenix AAM... Phoenix is the size of a Volkswagon van; launches at targets at 100+ miles.

Thankfully, however, they learned the lesson from the Phantom not having a gun in the early days of Vietnam, since dogfights were "a thing of the past."

The Raptor has a good, ole Vulcan cannon, just in case.

[HC_Chief]

Originally Posted by Donger

Thankfully, however, they learned the lesson from the Phantom not having a gun in the early days of Vietnam, since dogfights were "a thing of the past."

The Raptor has a good, ole Vulcan cannon, just in case.

Yep

ALWAYS better to be safe than sorry.

If all things were equal, without radar and missiles, just straight-up gunning by line of sight, the SU-35 would be one tough bird to take down. The Russian thrust-vectoring is superior in every way. Their vectoring is a full 360degree vector, whereas the F22 vectors on the Y axis only; and to a lesser angle.

[Dinny Bossa Nova]

Only $125 million??????

Gimme two of 'em!!!!!!!

Dinny

[Donger]

Originally Posted by Metrolike

I would seriously pay good money to see competitive training exercises between Americans and russkies. F-22 vs Su-35.

I wouldn't pay much to see a slaughter.

Unless the Broncos were involved.

[kaplin42]

I was watching a discovery channel special on these planes a little while ago. They said that the radar on the planes is so advance that they can pick up enemy aircraft, launch their missles and bug out of the area before the enemy ever realizes there might be someone there.