Law & Surtain: The Best CB Tandem in the League? - Page 10

**Mr. Kotter** · 04:09 PM

(Since it's all but "official". http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/15106482.htm )

Law & Surtain: The Best CB Tandem in the League?

That would have definitely been true 2-3 years ago.

Is it still true?

I don't know. If they are both healthy, and have "gas left in the tank" then I think they could be...

Even if they are healthy, and ready to play though, I'm not sure they will live up to their billing, UNLESS Sims and the DTs pick it up with more pressure from the inside. AND they get help from our safeties.

Otherwise they could become the two most overpaid "older" CBs in the league.

Here's hoping that Sims and Wesley (along with Edwards, Junior, and Pollard--not to mention Hali) can make a difference.

**Mr. Kotter** · 07-24-2006, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gcbroncos

huh?

just because our defense was better that means bailey had safety help?

Safety help? WTF?

....play in the secondary also depends on the kind of pressure your guys up front can give, and though you didn't have the sacks (most Broncos, and their fans don't....heh) your front 4/7 did well last year--hurries, overall pressure. Coupled with the coverage of your linebackers.....

Bailey had a lot more help than Law last year, that's for sure. The only difference was teams were always ahead of/kicking the crap out of the Jets, so teams didn't throw against them as much---because they didn't have to.....

Amnorix · 07-24-2006, 06:54 AM

Without reading through this entire thread, my answer is this:

Probably the best tandem, BUT:

1. without up-front pressure (which is a Chiefs' concern), no CB tandem could stop good opposing WRs forever.

2. The NFL has slanted the game more towards offense, and passing, in recent years. The concept of a true shut-down corner is more or less gone.

3. Law is excellent in run support as well. Dunno about Surtain. But it's fair to say that CBs have less impact on run defense than any other defensive position. So if your run defense still sucks...having great WRs won't save the day.

4. Older players have a few strikes against them. One is that they tend to get injured a bit more easily, and can take longer to recover. As Bill Belichick likes to say "depth in August is not the same as depth in November."

I'll keep my fingers crossed for their heatlh.

**Mr. Kotter** · 07-24-2006, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Without reading through this entire thread, my answer is this:

Probably the best tandem, BUT:

1. without up-front pressure (which is a Chiefs' concern), no CB tandem could stop good opposing WRs forever.

2. The NFL has slanted the game more towards offense, and passing, in recent years. The concept of a true shut-down corner is more or less gone.

3. Law is excellent in run support as well. Dunno about Surtain. But it's fair to say that CBs have less impact on run defense than any other defensive position. So if your run defense still sucks...having great WRs won't save the day.

4. Older players have a few strikes against them. One is that they tend to get injured a bit more easily, and can take longer to recover. As Bill Belichick likes to say "depth in August is not the same as depth in November."

I'll keep my fingers crossed for their heatlh.

As usual, agreed....and, this time, on all counts.

NOTE: Our run defense last year did improve significantly. If Sims comes back healthy (and Bell is healthier,) the additions of Edwards (DT, Bufffalo) and Law will only help that cause too.

ct · 07-24-2006, 07:29 AM

Haven't had time to read thru this whole thread. Anyone find out the contract terms?

**Mr. Kotter** · 07-24-2006, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coryt

Haven't had time to read thru this whole thread. Anyone find out the contract terms?

Nothing specific: 5 Years, $30 million.....but speculation is it's front loaded (based on Poston's history or 'leaking' really good deals, and their not 'leaking' this time); maybe a double-tiered bonus dependent on whether the Chiefs choose to retain him after this year....probably something like $5-6 this year, with the same guaranteed next if the Chief's choose to keep him.

ct · 07-24-2006, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

Nothing specific: 5 Years, $30 million.....but speculation is it's front loaded (based on Poston's history or 'leaking' really good deals, and their not 'leaking' this time); maybe a double-tiered bonus dependent on whether the Chiefs choose to retain him after this year....probably something like $5-6 this year, with the same guaranteed next if the Chief's choose to keep him.

Works for me, I like the front loaded aspect if that is the case.

htismaqe · 07-24-2006, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Without reading through this entire thread, my answer is this:

Probably the best tandem, BUT:

1. without up-front pressure (which is a Chiefs' concern), no CB tandem could stop good opposing WRs forever.

2. The NFL has slanted the game more towards offense, and passing, in recent years. The concept of a true shut-down corner is more or less gone.

3. Law is excellent in run support as well. Dunno about Surtain. But it's fair to say that CBs have less impact on run defense than any other defensive position. So if your run defense still sucks...having great WRs won't save the day.

4. Older players have a few strikes against them. One is that they tend to get injured a bit more easily, and can take longer to recover. As Bill Belichick likes to say "depth in August is not the same as depth in November."

I'll keep my fingers crossed for their heatlh.

Our run defense got alot better last year thanks to Kawika Mitchell. With DJ's improvement and help on the other side (I'm hoping that Fox beats out Bell) our LB corp looks pretty solid.

gcbroncos · 07-24-2006, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg63

...Aren't these stats?

heh....if you say so.....

so to put in your terms.....

the only stat that matters is wins & losses

gcbroncos · 07-24-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

Safety help? WTF?

....play in the secondary also depends on the kind of pressure your guys up front can give, and though you didn't have the sacks (most Broncos, and their fans don't....heh) your front 4/7 did well last year--hurries, overall pressure. Coupled with the coverage of your linebackers.....

Bailey had a lot more help than Law last year, that's for sure. The only difference was teams were always ahead of/kicking the crap out of the Jets, so teams didn't throw against them as much---because they didn't have to.....

before we go any further...

are you implying that ty law is better than champ bailey?

**Iowanian** · 07-24-2006, 08:43 AM

I'm still amazed the NFL is able to locate a helmet that will fit over that lightbulb 5head of chump's.

I don't think Law is CB-Jesus at this point in his career, but he's an immediate upgrade over Warfield.

Considering Jake PlummINT, Phillp Leaf..I mean ryan Rivers, and Aaron Brooks are throwing the division passes......Law will suffice.

**Rausch** · 07-24-2006, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Our run defense got alot better last year thanks to Kawika Mitchell. With DJ's improvement and help on the other side (I'm hoping that Fox beats out Bell) our LB corp looks pretty solid.

Are you saying that Fox is the key to a solid defense?...

**Mr. Kotter** · 07-24-2006, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gcbroncos

before we go any further...

are you implying that ty law is better than champ bailey?

Not at all. Such distinctions are hard to quantify....I'll just say, they are both among the best at what they do.

**dirk digler** · 07-24-2006, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gcbroncos

heh....if you say so.....

so to put in your terms.....

the only stat that matters is wins & losses

Ok Law has 2 SB rings how many does Chump have?

gcbroncos · 07-24-2006, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

Not at all. Such distinctions are hard to quantify....I'll just say, they are both among the best at what they do.

fair enough.....

you're right...very tough to quantify the best at corner...but a poll targeting league officials and experts will certainly favor champ....

no one is a shut down corner anymore but bailey is widely considered the closest thing to a shut down corner in today's game....

since you aren't saying law is better....no need for us to debate on this anymore...

i'm good with your comments at this point...

gcbroncos · 07-24-2006, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iowanian

I'm still amazed the NFL is able to locate a helmet that will fit over that lightbulb 5head of chump's.

I don't think Law is CB-Jesus at this point in his career, but he's an immediate upgrade over Warfield.

Considering Jake PlummINT, Phillp Leaf..I mean ryan Rivers, and Aaron Brooks are throwing the division passes......Law will suffice.

i agree with this guy....(except for the jake plummer part)

07-23-2006, 03:59 PM
Mr. Kotter The Dude Abides Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Dakota Country Casino cash: $3244285	Law & Surtain: The Best CB Tandem in the League? (Since it's all but "official". http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/15106482.htm ) Law & Surtain: The Best CB Tandem in the League? That would have definitely been true 2-3 years ago. Is it still true? I don't know. If they are both healthy, and have "gas left in the tank" then I think they could be... Even if they are healthy, and ready to play though, I'm not sure they will live up to their billing, UNLESS Sims and the DTs pick it up with more pressure from the inside. AND they get help from our safeties. Otherwise they could become the two most overpaid "older" CBs in the league. Here's hoping that Sims and Wesley (along with Edwards, Junior, and Pollard--not to mention Hali) can make a difference. Last edited by Mr. Kotter; 07-23-2006 at 04:09 PM..
Posts: 46,923

07-24-2006, 06:54 AM	#137
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	Without reading through this entire thread, my answer is this: Probably the best tandem, BUT: 1. without up-front pressure (which is a Chiefs' concern), no CB tandem could stop good opposing WRs forever. 2. The NFL has slanted the game more towards offense, and passing, in recent years. The concept of a true shut-down corner is more or less gone. 3. Law is excellent in run support as well. Dunno about Surtain. But it's fair to say that CBs have less impact on run defense than any other defensive position. So if your run defense still sucks...having great WRs won't save the day. 4. Older players have a few strikes against them. One is that they tend to get injured a bit more easily, and can take longer to recover. As Bill Belichick likes to say "depth in August is not the same as depth in November." I'll keep my fingers crossed for their heatlh. __________________ "I love signature blocks on the Internet. I get to put whatever the hell I want in quotes, pick a pretend author, and bang, it's like he really said it." George Washington
Posts: 43,125

07-24-2006, 07:29 AM	#139
ct u b illian Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: DooDah Casino cash: $10009436	Haven't had time to read thru this whole thread. Anyone find out the contract terms?
Posts: 7,287

07-24-2006, 08:43 AM	#145
Iowanian Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Utopia Casino cash: $1668454	I'm still amazed the NFL is able to locate a helmet that will fit over that lightbulb 5head of chump's. I don't think Law is CB-Jesus at this point in his career, but he's an immediate upgrade over Warfield. Considering Jake PlummINT, Phillp Leaf..I mean ryan Rivers, and Aaron Brooks are throwing the division passes......Law will suffice.
Posts: 62,945