Do you prefer the "old"/Vermeil style or the "new"/Herm style of play?

**KC Dan** · 09-19-2006, 09:06 AM

I prefer victories, call me silly. DV didn't get us to the playoffs = F. Herm is 0-2 = D- but too soon for final grade here

**Bearcat** · 09-19-2006, 09:22 AM

I dunno... how about comparing Herm's first 2 games vs. DV's first 2 games

Hammock Parties · 09-19-2006, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I dunno... how about comparing Herm's first 2 games vs. DV's first 2 games

It's not really a valid comparison because this team is much more talented than our 2001 squad.

Herm has done a wonderful job with the defense. It's too early to tell if he's really ****ed up the offense, but the retirement of Roaf and Welbourn and Green's injury didn't help.

**Bearcat** · 09-19-2006, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

It's not really a valid comparison because this team is much more talented than our 2001 squad.

Herm has done a wonderful job with the defense. It's too early to tell if he's really ****ed up the offense, but the retirement of Roaf and Welbourn and Green's injury didn't help.

That was sort of my point... Vermeil had his players.. Holmes, Green, Gonzo... but it wasn't magic on day 1 (he went 0-2, btw). PPG, our defense wasn't all that bad that year, either. It was way too early to tell if he ****ed up the defense.

And who knows about our defense this year... there's definitely a difference in attitude, but it's 2 games... and Denver wore them down. On Offense, it's 2 games with a new HC and OC, and almost a game and a half of it has been without Trent Green.

Two games into Herm's tenure, and I'm undecided... just like two games into DV's tenure.

Coogs · 09-19-2006, 09:46 AM

I'm going to say Herm's style. I liked the aggression the defense showed Sunday. I really believe that type of defense will again turn Arrowhead into a place that opponents hate to play. Even though our record is pretty good the past five years, a loud crowd when we are on defense instead of offense. A crowd that forces the offense to commit penalties because of crowd noise, which often leads to turnovers as a result of down and distance issues.

But then again, I have always liked the smashmouth style of football. The kind of game we saw last night from Jax and Pitt. The kind of game we saw in Denver Sunday.

Cormac · 09-19-2006, 09:43 AM

Herm is behind the 8-ball because of player age and the loss of Roaf, Green, Welbourn and T-Rich. He can never have the same offensive success as we had under DV for those reasons. I fully recognise and acknowledge this fact.

However......

Whenever our team took the field under DV I felt like we should win. On any given day we could beat anybody. I never thought we were overmatched to the point of pessimism. The offense was so potent, our STs were strong (in the first few years), and all it would take was ONE stop by our defense. As it turned out, often enough they couldn't even do that. But they were exciting years, he brought in many quality players like Holmes, Roaf and Green that will go down in Chiefs lore as great players, and he rebuilt a team lacking in character and confidence.

For those reasons, I far prefer the DV era so far. Herm doesn't give me any of the same feeling that he knows what he's doing. He's fighting an uphill battle right now, especially given the loss of personnel.

JMO.

htismaqe · 09-19-2006, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cormac

I never thought we were overmatched to the point of pessimism.

You didn't?

Not even the day before travelling to Pile High?

BE HONEST.

jspchief · 09-19-2006, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

You didn't?

Not even the day before travelling to Pile High?

BE HONEST.

How much of that was about not having Green rather than not having Vermeil?

I don't feel real confident going in with Damon Huard, regardless of the coach.

htismaqe · 09-19-2006, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

How much of that was about not having Green rather than not having Vermeil?

I don't feel real confident going in with Damon Huard, regardless of the coach.

I wasn't talking about last weekend.

Cormac was talking about how, with VERMEIL, he always felt like we could beat anybody. He said he NEVER felt we were overmatched to the point that he was pessimistic.

I'm saying he's really not thinking his answer through.

Because anybody that thought we had even a CHANCE at Denver or Minnesota in 2003, or at Denver ANYTIME during Vermeil's tenure here was watching the game with rose-colored glasses...

FringeNC · 09-19-2006, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cormac

Herm is behind the 8-ball because of player age and the loss of Roaf, Green, Welbourn and T-Rich. He can never have the same offensive success as we had under DV for those reasons. I fully recognise and acknowledge this fact.

However......

Whenever our team took the field under DV I felt like we should win. On any given day we could beat anybody. I never thought we were overmatched to the point of pessimism. The offense was so potent, our STs were strong (in the first few years), and all it would take was ONE stop by our defense. As it turned out, often enough they couldn't even do that. But they were exciting years, he brought in many quality players like Holmes, Roaf and Green that will go down in Chiefs lore as great players, and he rebuilt a team lacking in character and confidence.

For those reasons, I far prefer the DV era so far. Herm doesn't give me any of the same feeling that he knows what he's doing. He's fighting an uphill battle right now, especially given the loss of personnel.

JMO.

I agree with this assessment. I much prefer to see offense. (I think it's time for some NFL rule changes. Virtually no team can pass protect against today's defenses. College football has become more entertaining to watch.)

Having said that, and having been a Herm basher in the past, I recognize that with no pass protection and/or a backup QB in there, Herm's hands are a little tied. That excuse only takes you so far though. Didn't we put up about 500 yards and 40 points against Houston last year with Jordan Black at left tackle? So when Trent gets back...

I'm keeping an open mind with Herm. When Trent gets back, we better not be playing for field goals, but I do tip my hat a little to Herm for almost pulling a game out at Denver with Huard as the QB.

I think it's too early to judge Herm one way or another.

Hammock Parties · 09-19-2006, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

Didn't we put up about 500 yards and 40 points against Houston last year with Jordan Black at left tackle? S

Exactly.

I'll kill Herm if he tries to reign us in.

Stinger · 09-19-2006, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

Exactly.

I'll kill Herm if he tries to reign us in.

.... Germ warfare revolution part deux.

**TinyEvel** · 09-19-2006, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cormac

However......

Whenever our team took the field under DV I felt like we should win. On any given day we could beat anybody. I never thought we were overmatched to the point of pessimism.
JMO.

Agree with that. I can't remember us being a double-digit underdog at any time in recent years. If Green was still in, I bet the spread would have been 7 or 8.

I think it's way too soon to start comparing Herm & Vermiel's records.

Our O points went down when Roaf was on the DL last year and we had to keep Gonzo on the line for protection. I think they haven't worked out all the kinks we saw in the preseason. They'll get better with each game. We just don't have a lot of time for that to come around. This bye and our week 4 adn 5 schedule could not have suited us any better.

htismaqe · 09-19-2006, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinyevel

Agree with that. I can't remember us being a double-digit underdog at any time in recent years. If Green was still in, I bet the spread would have been 7 or 8.

I think it's way too soon to start comparing Herm & Vermiel's records.

Our O points went down when Roaf was on the DL last year and we had to keep Gonzo on the line for protection. I think they haven't worked out all the kinks we saw in the preseason. They'll get better with each game. We just don't have a lot of time for that to come around. This bye and our week 4 adn 5 schedule could not have suited us any better.

We were a double-digit underdog last weekend BECAUSE OF VERMEIL. Take Green's injury out of the equation and what you're left with is our PUTRID showings there in 5 years...

**dirk digler** · 09-19-2006, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

We were a double-digit underdog last weekend BECAUSE OF VERMEIL.

Wrong

Here is the betting line between the 2 teams for the last 5 years. I guess all the ass kickings we get in Denver don't reflect in the lines.

12/04/2005 Sun DEN 27 KC 31 G 1/46

09/26/2005 Mon KC 10 DEN 30 G -3/47½

12/19/2004 Sun DEN 17 KC 45 G 3/51½

09/12/2004 Sun KC 24 DEN 34 G -3/47½

12/07/2003 Sun KC 27 DEN 45 G -3/46½

10/05/2003 Sun DEN 23 KC 24 G -3½/47

12/15/2002 Sun KC 24 DEN 31 G -3½/47½

10/20/2002 Sun DEN 37 KC 34 G 3/50½

12/16/2001 Sun DEN 23 KC 26 G -1/38

10/07/2001 Sun KC 6 DEN 20 G -10/47½

View Poll Results: Do you prefer the Vermeil-style of play or the Herm-style of play?
Vermeil style	31	43.66%
Herm style	22	30.99%
Neither	18	25.35%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

09-19-2006, 09:06 AM	#1
KC Dan Red, White & Blue for the U.S. Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: The Great Northwest now.. Casino cash: $-2335765	I prefer victories, call me silly. DV didn't get us to the playoffs = F. Herm is 0-2 = D- but too soon for final grade here __________________ "And if you don't know where you're going Any road will take you there" - George Harrison
Posts: 7,088

09-19-2006, 09:22 AM	#2
Bearcat Would an idiot do that? Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Arizona Casino cash: $-1155069	I dunno... how about comparing Herm's first 2 games vs. DV's first 2 games __________________
Posts: 59,666

09-19-2006, 09:46 AM	#5
Coogs In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Northern Kansas Casino cash: $-2345651	I'm going to say Herm's style. I liked the aggression the defense showed Sunday. I really believe that type of defense will again turn Arrowhead into a place that opponents hate to play. Even though our record is pretty good the past five years, a loud crowd when we are on defense instead of offense. A crowd that forces the offense to commit penalties because of crowd noise, which often leads to turnovers as a result of down and distance issues. But then again, I have always liked the smashmouth style of football. The kind of game we saw last night from Jax and Pitt. The kind of game we saw in Denver Sunday.
Posts: 21,914

09-19-2006, 09:43 AM	#6
Cormac Haley sceptic.... Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: waiting it out....... Casino cash: $10004900	Herm is behind the 8-ball because of player age and the loss of Roaf, Green, Welbourn and T-Rich. He can never have the same offensive success as we had under DV for those reasons. I fully recognise and acknowledge this fact. However...... Whenever our team took the field under DV I felt like we should win. On any given day we could beat anybody. I never thought we were overmatched to the point of pessimism. The offense was so potent, our STs were strong (in the first few years), and all it would take was ONE stop by our defense. As it turned out, often enough they couldn't even do that. But they were exciting years, he brought in many quality players like Holmes, Roaf and Green that will go down in Chiefs lore as great players, and he rebuilt a team lacking in character and confidence. For those reasons, I far prefer the DV era so far. Herm doesn't give me any of the same feeling that he knows what he's doing. He's fighting an uphill battle right now, especially given the loss of personnel. JMO.
Posts: 2,406