Do you prefer the "old"/Vermeil style or the "new"/Herm style of play?

[FloridaMan88]

Vermeil-era vs Herm-era (all 2 games of it) by the numbers from today's KC Star:


New vs. Old: Comparing two coaches' styles
The Kansas City Star
It’s been only two games, but here’s how the Chiefs have fared in Herm Edwards’ brief tenure as coach (top) compared with five seasons under Dick Vermeil.


Edwards Category Vermeil
8.0 Points for 27.0
16.0 Points against 22.9
129.0 Rush offense 137.3
130.5 Rush defense 124.4
153.5 Pass offense 243.6
146.5 Pass defense 232.4

[NJ Chief Fan]

IDK due to inconclusive evidence

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by chiefsfan1963

DV and AS did a fabulous job here in KC. The team that Herm inherited was not in shambles unlike what DV inherited. Comparing the two is an APPLES To Oranges comparison. People like htis are "black and white" in their analysis and critiques.

I'm not comparing Vermeil to Herm. If you'd bother to READ what I wrote, I said EXACTLY THAT - that you can't compare the two. See, Herm has been here for two games. Vermeil was here for 5 years. It's only valid to compare the two once Herm has been here long enough to examine his tenure in hindsight. There's no other way to do historical analysis because it's BY DEFINITION not historical if it HASN'T HAPPENED YET.

That being said, yes I am rigid in my criticism of Vermeil. One playoff appearance and ZERO wins in 5 years is about as "black and white" as you can get.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by tinyevel

Agree with that. I can't remember us being a double-digit underdog at any time in recent years. If Green was still in, I bet the spread would have been 7 or 8.

I think it's way too soon to start comparing Herm & Vermiel's records.

Our O points went down when Roaf was on the DL last year and we had to keep Gonzo on the line for protection. I think they haven't worked out all the kinks we saw in the preseason. They'll get better with each game. We just don't have a lot of time for that to come around. This bye and our week 4 adn 5 schedule could not have suited us any better.

We were a double-digit underdog last weekend BECAUSE OF VERMEIL. Take Green's injury out of the equation and what you're left with is our PUTRID showings there in 5 years...

[TN_Chief]

Originally Posted by jspchief

We haven't seen enough to know what Herm's style is.

Wrong. Look at game films of the NY Jets for the past 5 years. Welcome to Hermball.

[ChiefsfaninPA]

Originally Posted by TN_Chief

Wrong. Look at game films of the NY Jets for the past 5 years. Welcome to Hermball.

Jet fans must really be hurt that their former head coach is here now. I understand. If Man-gina was my coach I would be upset as well. But fear not Mr. Gang-green because before Herm and now after Herm one thing will remain true........You did and will continue to suck.

[Chiefnj]

"We were a double-digit underdog last weekend BECAUSE OF VERMEIL."

[chiefsfan1963]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I'm not comparing Vermeil to Herm. If you'd bother to READ what I wrote, I said EXACTLY THAT - that you can't compare the two. See, Herm has been here for two games. Vermeil was here for 5 years. It's only valid to compare the two once Herm has been here long enough to examine his tenure in hindsight. There's no other way to do historical analysis because it's BY DEFINITION not historical if it HASN'T HAPPENED YET.

That being said, yes I am rigid in my criticism of Vermeil. One playoff appearance and ZERO wins in 5 years is about as "black and white" as you can get.

If you recall in my post Marty and DV could have succeeded big time here, but my argument is CP was the common denominator why they didn't.

Marty was able to consistently make the playoffs each year with the Chiefs. A bad coach couldn't do that. DV took 2 different franchises to the SB and won one. He was able to take a below average KC O and develop it to one of the BEST the last 5 years, a Bad Coach would not be able to accomplish this.

Marty and DV were not failures as coaches here, CP failed them and the fans!

The fact that we have everyone pointing fingers at DV and Herm and comparing and contrasting their coaching ability and style is missing the big picture, and CP is laughing all the way to the bank while the "villagers" are chattering and arguing with each other like fools.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj

"We were a double-digit underdog last weekend BECAUSE OF VERMEIL."

So you're saying that the line on the game was IN NO WAY influenced by that last 5 years results in the same game?

[Hound333]

I would prefer that we had a good offense and a good defense. I would prefer that we go to the superbowl and dominate 55-0. I would prefer that every team in the league would bow down and kiss the feet of the greatest team ever assembled.

*lays down crack pipe*

I just want to win a game this year.

[RedandGold]

Originally Posted by chiefsfan1963

If you recall in my post Marty and DV could have succeeded big time here, but my argument is CP was the common denominator why they didn't.

Marty was able to consistently make the playoffs each year with the Chiefs. A bad coach couldn't do that. DV took 2 different franchises to the SB and won one. He was able to take a below average KC O and develop it to one of the BEST the last 5 years, a Bad Coach would not be able to accomplish this.

Marty and DV were not failures as coaches here, CP failed them and the fans!

The fact that we have everyone pointing fingers at DV and Herm and comparing and contrasting their coaching ability and style is missing the big picture, and CP is laughing all the way to the bank while the "villagers" are chattering and arguing with each other like fools.

Even though I appreciate the frustration, the bottom line is that CP didn't miss the field goals against Indy, he didn't start Grbac over Gannon, and he certainly wasn't the one on the field that couldn't force the Manning-led Colts to punt in the post-season.

He assembled the players and assistant coaches that these two head coaches wanted, and it is not his fault that the resulting teams did not make it to the Super Bowl.

Carl's job is to sign players and make the organization profitable. It's the responsibility of the coaching staff to make the teams winners. About the only area where I can truly fault him is in the poor scouting that we have had through the majority of his tenure and in the poor drafts that we have had as a result.

[Chiefnj]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

So you're saying that the line on the game was IN NO WAY influenced by that last 5 years results in the same game?

Get over your hate for Vermeil and Saunders.

Vermeil is no longer the coach. He was not the reason for the double digit point spread.

Denver is a good home team - not only against KC, but in general. The Chiefs D was suspect in week 1. The Chiefs O played very poorly in week 1. The loss of the starting QB, Roaf, Welbourn and Richardson. Those are the reasons for the point spread.

[ck_IN]

If you recall in my post Marty and DV could have succeeded big time here, but my argument is CP was the common denominator why they didn't.

CP is a common denominator and I'm no fan of CP but I only hold CP partially responsible for our futility. With a few exceptions CP has given his coaches every player they've asked for. The only notable time CP overruled DV was on LJ. It was DV's magical mystery drafts that produced Sims, Siavii, Battle, Downing, Freeman, Minnis, and on and on.

As for DV doing a wonderous job here I guess that depends on how you define it. In five years he produced one division win (against the softest schedule possible and with two wins handed to him by officials), no playoff wins and a winning % just a hair above .500. He did however do a great job at building an offense and proving to the world that it was he and not Martz that was behind the 'Show' in St. Lou which I think is all he really intended to do anyway.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj

Get over your hate for Vermeil and Saunders.

Vermeil is no longer the coach. He was not the reason for the double digit point spread.

Denver is a good home team - not only against KC, but in general. The Chiefs D was suspect in week 1. The Chiefs O played very poorly in week 1. The loss of the starting QB, Roaf, Welbourn and Richardson. Those are the reasons for the point spread.

I don't hate Vermeil OR Saunders. In fact, I'd prefer to forget about them altogether.

Then again, I'm not the one that keeps bringing them up, opining for the days when we could be the number 1 offense and still not win a goddamn thing.

As for the point spread, if you don't think that the FACT that we've been beaten at Denver 5 straight times, by an average of 14 points, played into the point spread you're flatly ignoring the truth of the situation.

[PastorMikH]

Originally Posted by jspchief

We haven't seen enough to know what Herm's style is.

Ditto.


Now, if the question is whether I'd rather lose with our O scoring 40+ or lose with our O scoring 3, the answer is neither.


If you ask me which coach I think gives us a better chance of winning, I have to go with Herm at this point. Herm is at least concerned with the O. He may not have the answers, but he's concerned. DV wouldn't even recognize the problem with the D while his buddy GR was there. Which leads me to my second point, Herm doesn't appear loyal to a player. He will put a multi-million dollar player on the bench and put a younger player in (Hicks and Knight at this point, Bell may not be far behind). DV's loyalty was commendable at times and condemable at others.

[Chiefnj]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I don't hate Vermeil OR Saunders. In fact, I'd prefer to forget about them altogether.

Then again, I'm not the one that keeps bringing them up, opining for the days when we could be the number 1 offense and still not win a goddamn thing.

As for the point spread, if you don't think that the FACT that we've been beaten at Denver 5 straight times, by an average of 14 points, played into the point spread you're flatly ignoring the truth of the situation.

The truth of the situation is that Denver is historically a very good home team. They beat Marty, Vermeil and dozens of coaches regularly. What was the point spread last year when KC went to Denver? Was it double digits? If it was "BECAUSE OF VERMEIL" as you stated, the spread should have been the same.