JoPo: Carl has us all fooled - Page 8

siberian khatru · 12-19-2006, 07:54 AM

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/16270526.htm

Let’s face it — Chiefs aren’t that good

JOE POSNANSKI
The Kansas City Star

Picture, if you will, a football team. This is not any ordinary football team. This is a team that has made the playoffs one time in the last nine years. Once. In nine years. This obviously is not a particularly good football team.

In those nine years, this team has been led by four different head coaches (three defensive guys, one offensive guy), guided by four quarterbacks (all backups from other teams) and has finished, on average, 22nd in the league in total defense.

You have pictured a team in total disarray, yes? Let us divulge that team also has been miserable away from home — a 25-46 road record over those nine years. No toughness. This team has had just one of its drafted defensive players make the Pro Bowl over that nine-year drought (and that was a fluke, he was on the bench the very next year). This team has not been to a Super Bowl in Lance Armstrong’s lifetime.

This team embarrassed itself with a Monday night meltdown on national television. This team’s defensive slapstick inspired the commissioner to joke about them during his annual state of the NFL speech. This team had one coach quit suddenly and go into broadcasting, one coach resign to spend time with his grandkids and a third coach dismissed rather coldly and then brought back to be defensive coordinator.

Close your eyes. You are picturing one of the NFL dregs, right? The Detroit Lions? The Arizona Cardinals? The Houston Texans?

Of course, you know by now — you’ve known all along — that we are talking about the Kansas City Chiefs. And yet, somehow the Chiefs have avoided being considered one of those NFL dregs. Every home game sells out. People all over town wear red to work every Friday. Every July, no matter how many years since the team has tasted playoff success, Chiefs fans hope again.

How is this possible? You have entered the Chiefs zone.

•••

It’s strange. We all lived through every one of those Chiefs failures the last nine years. I was there for every one of them. And yet, until they were all piled up one after another like dominoes, I did not quite realize exactly how bad it has been. One playoff in nine years? Four coaches? Four backup quarterbacks? That bad a road record?

If the idea of the NFL is to make the playoffs — and I suspect most of us would say that’s the idea — the Chiefs are right there with the Lions, Cardinals and Browns.

But it doesn’t feel that way, does it? I suspect this has a lot to do with Chiefs president/CEO/general manager Carl Peterson. I know many people believe that he is somehow content with losing (as long as the stadium is filled), but I have never bought that. I think he wants very much to win. He has done everything he knows to win.

The truth of course is that under Peterson, the Chiefs haven’t won. In the early years, they couldn’t quite win playoff games. And over the last nine years, they haven’t even won enough to make the playoffs. Why not? I think the answer is more complicated than “he isn’t trying” or “he doesn’t care.” My quick explanation is that the hardest thing to do in football is a build a team with the right balance between offense and defense, and Peterson has never found that balance. Good teams can beat you more than one way. The Chiefs, under Peterson, have not had that variety.

But what Peterson has done — I think better than anyone in sports — is convince everyone that his mediocre teams are actually good and promising. How? He has kept the Chiefs from having one of those comical 3-13 seasons. He has always found players with star quality — Derrick Thomas to Joe Montana to Marcus Allen to Tony Gonzalez to Priest Holmes to Larry Johnson. And the Chiefs have just missed the playoffs enough times to keep everybody coming back for more.

I’ll bet if you asked big NFL fans to name the four teams that have made the playoffs just once since 1998, everybody would get Detroit. Most would pick Arizona. Most would pick Cincinnati (though the Bengals look on pace to make the playoffs this year and get out of this league of losers).

And I suspect very few would name Kansas City. They seem better than that.

This year’s team is a perfect example. These Chiefs were once 7-4 and two touchdowns ahead of Cleveland. They looked to be a playoff team for sure. They looked to be a team on the rise. Everybody in town was excited. Truth was, they were playing over their heads. They have lost three straight, and really they were not too competitive the last two.

Monday, someone asked me this simple question: If you had a choice to build for the future, would you take this year’s Chiefs team or the 4-11-1 team from 1988 that Marty Schottenheimer inherited?

The obvious answer is that you would take this year’s team. That was my thought.

But look again: That 1988 team had three defensive Pro Bowlers — Dino Hackett, Albert Lewis and Deron Cherry. Defensive end Neil Smith was about to emerge, cornerback Kevin Ross had Pro Bowl years ahead, and the Chiefs had a high draft pick (which Peterson used to take Derrick Thomas). That team also had a powerful running back (Christian Okoye), a solid offensive line, two productive wide receivers and a veteran quarterback (Steve DeBerg). There were some pieces there. And the Chiefs won.

Now, look at this year’s team. They will likely have no defensive Pro Bowlers this season. It’s way too early to predict that any of the young defenders will emerge the way Smith, Ross and others did. The Chiefs will have a mediocre draft pick, so they probably will not get a franchise player like Thomas. They do have the great running back, but the offensive line — especially at tackle — struggles. Hall of Famer Will Shields may retire. Trent Green doesn’t look the same after his injury, and he will be 37 before next season. The Chiefs do have the fabulous Tony Gonzalez, assuming they re-sign him. Otherwise, their receiving corps is shaky and aging fast.

The point is, this Chiefs team really isn’t very good. But, like always, they had people around town (at least for a while) believing they were good. Heck, I believed it, too. This is what the Chiefs do well. They get everyone to believe. Trouble is, they’re going to miss the playoffs again. And they do that well too. Too well.

**Rausch** · 12-20-2006, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

While I see what you're saying, Carl's not WRONG.

When your team hasn't won a playoff game in over a decade, it's NOT ABOUT SUPERBOWLS. It's about making the playoffs.

I'd prefer that our next HC have some super bowl experience.

At least you know he CAN do it...

htismaqe · 12-20-2006, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

I'd prefer that our next HC have some super bowl experience.

At least you know he CAN do it...

I thought the same thing when we brought in Vermeil. I honestly don't care anymore.

I want them to bring in somebody COMPLETELY NEW. Doesn't matter if they have previous SB experience, just make sure they've never been affiliated with the Kansas City Chiefs at any point in their existence.

This applies equally to the HC AND the GM.

**ptlyon** · 12-20-2006, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I thought the same thing when we brought in Vermeil. I honestly don't care anymore.

I want them to bring in somebody COMPLETELY NEW. Doesn't matter if they have previous SB experience, just make sure they've never been affiliated with the Kansas City Chiefs at any point in their existence.

This applies equally to the HC AND the GM.

Two words: Matt Millen

Reerun_KC · 12-20-2006, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

While I see what you're saying, Carl's not WRONG.

When your team hasn't won a playoff game in over a decade, it's NOT ABOUT SUPERBOWLS. It's about making the playoffs.

Just like the 1990's Huh,

I understand you have to make the playoffs first Hitsmaqe, but I also understand that what Carl and the fans consider success are two different things.

We consider Championship Game and Superbowls appearances a success, Carl considers .500 or better and a appearance in the playoffs as a success.

Raising parking, concessions and tickets are more successful than pushing through to one superbowl appearance or vistory and have a ton of salary problems or free agent problems, in the eyes of Carl Peterson. This is kind of like Electricity, always goes through the path of least resistance. Carl is that way, wants the easy way out to make the most money for the Chiefs.

That is why Herm was a safe hire for Carl. There will be no demands for players or trades. There wont be any conflict between the coaches and GM, all Herm has to do is keep this team around the 8-8 thru 10-6 mark with the players Carl gives him. Keep fans hopes alive and keep them coming out to Arrowhead by the 10's of thousands. That is a success for the Kansas City Chiefs organization.

htismaqe · 12-20-2006, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Just like the 1990's Huh,

I understand you have to make the playoffs first Hitsmaqe, but I also understand that what Carl and the fans consider success are two different things.

We consider Championship Game and Superbowls appearances a success, Carl considers .500 or better and a appearance in the playoffs as a success.

Raising parking, concessions and tickets are more successful than pushing through to one superbowl appearance or vistory and have a ton of salary problems or free agent problems, in the eyes of Carl Peterson. This is kind of like Electricity, always goes through the path of least resistance. Carl is that way, wants the easy way out to make the most money for the Chiefs.

That is why Herm was a safe hire for Carl. There will be no demands for players or trades. There wont be any conflict between the coaches and GM, all Herm has to do is keep this team around the 8-8 thru 10-6 mark with the players Carl gives him. Keep fans hopes alive and keep them coming out to Arrowhead by the 10's of thousands. That is a success for the Kansas City Chiefs organization.

Obviously, the fans DON'T consider Championship Games and Super Bowls as "success".

And if you think for one second that Carl doesn't want to win a Super Bowl, you've drank too much Drain-o.

Winning a Super Bowl will NEVER cause a franchise to lose money. EVER.

Reerun_KC · 12-20-2006, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Obviously, the fans DON'T consider Championship Games and Super Bowls as "success".

And if you think for one second that Carl doesn't want to win a Super Bowl, you've drank too much Drain-o.

Winning a Super Bowl will NEVER cause a franchise to lose money. EVER.

I dont drink Drain-o, I stick with Jim Beam, thanks for the offer though.

I agree. Winning the superbowl would never cause a organization to lose money. If you think that you need to back away from the crack pipe.

But do you realize the risk vs reward. I feel that is what Carl looks at. The risk is to great financially to go and make winning a superbowl a goal. I have no doubt that he wants to win the superbowl, but he will have to win it on his terms without the risk of spending or going out on the preverbal limb to get that championship.

Carl looks at the bottom line and the future of the organization's financial state or salary cap. Carl is not going to sell out the Chiefs, for a chance at superbowl immortality...

So we can love him for that or hate him for it, but that is the way it is and probably why his is going to retire a very weatlhy man thanks to all the loyal KC fans.

htismaqe · 12-20-2006, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

I dont drink Drain-o, I stick with Jim Beam, thanks for the offer though.

I agree. Winning the superbowl would never cause a organization to lose money. If you think that you need to back away from the crack pipe.

But do you realize the risk vs reward. I feel that is what Carl looks at. The risk is to great financially to go and make winning a superbowl a goal. I have no doubt that he wants to win the superbowl, but he will have to win it on his terms without the risk of spending or going out on the preverbal limb to get that championship.

Carl looks at the bottom line and the future of the organization's financial state or salary cap. Carl is not going to sell out the Chiefs, for a chance at superbowl immortality...

So we can love him for that or hate him for it, but that is the way it is and probably why his is going to retire a very weatlhy man thanks to all the loyal KC fans.

How many recent Super Bowl teams have COMPLETELY mortgaged their future to win one - Tampa? Baltimore?

The idea that there's some kind of huge financial risk in building a Super Bowl team is ridiculous.

Carl ALREADY HAS, many times in the past, gone out on the proverbial limb. He's signed Chester McGlockton, Joe Montana, and on and on and on. The idea that he won't spend money is false.

It's not that he won't spend money, it's that he spends it on the WRONG PEOPLE. From Carlton Gray to Vonnie Holliday, Dexter McCleon to Dan Williams, Carl has willing thrown MILLIONS of dollars at guys that just aren't very good.

MichaelH · 12-20-2006, 11:04 AM

The article is dead on.

Will Carl read it and will it make him reconsider his ways? Will the 2007 Chiefs take a different path?

**dirk digler** · 12-20-2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Carl ALREADY HAS, many times in the past, gone out on the proverbial limb. He's signed Chester McGlockton, Joe Montana, and on and on and on. The idea that he won't spend money is false.

It's not that he won't spend money, it's that he spends it on the WRONG PEOPLE. From Carlton Gray to Vonnie Holliday, Dexter McCleon to Dan Williams, Carl has willing thrown MILLIONS of dollars at guys that just aren't very good.

Yep 100% agree.

Reerun_KC · 12-20-2006, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

How many recent Super Bowl teams have COMPLETELY mortgaged their future to win one - Tampa? Baltimore?

The idea that there's some kind of huge financial risk in building a Super Bowl team is ridiculous.

Carl ALREADY HAS, many times in the past, gone out on the proverbial limb. He's signed Chester McGlockton, Joe Montana, and on and on and on. The idea that he won't spend money is false.

It's not that he won't spend money, it's that he spends it on the WRONG PEOPLE. From Carlton Gray to Vonnie Holliday, Dexter McCleon to Dan Williams, Carl has willing thrown MILLIONS of dollars at guys that just aren't very good.

I see what you are saying.

**dirk digler** · 12-20-2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

I see what you are saying.

And add to the fact the drafts of late haven't been very good so we are pretty much screwed.

milkman · 12-20-2006, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

And add to the fact the drafts of late haven't been very good so we are pretty much screwed.

If we hadn't thrown away draft picks for coaches and aging vets, we might be better than we are.

milkman · 12-20-2006, 11:16 AM

I don't buy into the "Carl only wants to make money" crap.

He wants to win.
He just doesn't know how to mange to make it happen.

htismaqe · 12-20-2006, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

I don't buy into the "Carl only wants to make money" crap.

He wants to win.
He just doesn't know how to mange to make it happen.

Exactly.

Carl wants to win, he just doesn't know how.

**BigRedChief** · 12-20-2006, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Exactly.

Carl wants to win, he just doesn't know how.

What he said.

12-19-2006, 07:54 AM
siberian khatru 21st Century Schizoid Fan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Gates of Delirium Casino cash: $-1435050	JoPo: Carl has us all fooled http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/16270526.htm Let’s face it — Chiefs aren’t that good JOE POSNANSKI The Kansas City Star Picture, if you will, a football team. This is not any ordinary football team. This is a team that has made the playoffs one time in the last nine years. Once. In nine years. This obviously is not a particularly good football team. In those nine years, this team has been led by four different head coaches (three defensive guys, one offensive guy), guided by four quarterbacks (all backups from other teams) and has finished, on average, 22nd in the league in total defense. You have pictured a team in total disarray, yes? Let us divulge that team also has been miserable away from home — a 25-46 road record over those nine years. No toughness. This team has had just one of its drafted defensive players make the Pro Bowl over that nine-year drought (and that was a fluke, he was on the bench the very next year). This team has not been to a Super Bowl in Lance Armstrong’s lifetime. This team embarrassed itself with a Monday night meltdown on national television. This team’s defensive slapstick inspired the commissioner to joke about them during his annual state of the NFL speech. This team had one coach quit suddenly and go into broadcasting, one coach resign to spend time with his grandkids and a third coach dismissed rather coldly and then brought back to be defensive coordinator. Close your eyes. You are picturing one of the NFL dregs, right? The Detroit Lions? The Arizona Cardinals? The Houston Texans? Of course, you know by now — you’ve known all along — that we are talking about the Kansas City Chiefs. And yet, somehow the Chiefs have avoided being considered one of those NFL dregs. Every home game sells out. People all over town wear red to work every Friday. Every July, no matter how many years since the team has tasted playoff success, Chiefs fans hope again. How is this possible? You have entered the Chiefs zone. ••• It’s strange. We all lived through every one of those Chiefs failures the last nine years. I was there for every one of them. And yet, until they were all piled up one after another like dominoes, I did not quite realize exactly how bad it has been. One playoff in nine years? Four coaches? Four backup quarterbacks? That bad a road record? If the idea of the NFL is to make the playoffs — and I suspect most of us would say that’s the idea — the Chiefs are right there with the Lions, Cardinals and Browns. But it doesn’t feel that way, does it? I suspect this has a lot to do with Chiefs president/CEO/general manager Carl Peterson. I know many people believe that he is somehow content with losing (as long as the stadium is filled), but I have never bought that. I think he wants very much to win. He has done everything he knows to win. The truth of course is that under Peterson, the Chiefs haven’t won. In the early years, they couldn’t quite win playoff games. And over the last nine years, they haven’t even won enough to make the playoffs. Why not? I think the answer is more complicated than “he isn’t trying” or “he doesn’t care.” My quick explanation is that the hardest thing to do in football is a build a team with the right balance between offense and defense, and Peterson has never found that balance. Good teams can beat you more than one way. The Chiefs, under Peterson, have not had that variety. But what Peterson has done — I think better than anyone in sports — is convince everyone that his mediocre teams are actually good and promising. How? He has kept the Chiefs from having one of those comical 3-13 seasons. He has always found players with star quality — Derrick Thomas to Joe Montana to Marcus Allen to Tony Gonzalez to Priest Holmes to Larry Johnson. And the Chiefs have just missed the playoffs enough times to keep everybody coming back for more. I’ll bet if you asked big NFL fans to name the four teams that have made the playoffs just once since 1998, everybody would get Detroit. Most would pick Arizona. Most would pick Cincinnati (though the Bengals look on pace to make the playoffs this year and get out of this league of losers). And I suspect very few would name Kansas City. They seem better than that. This year’s team is a perfect example. These Chiefs were once 7-4 and two touchdowns ahead of Cleveland. They looked to be a playoff team for sure. They looked to be a team on the rise. Everybody in town was excited. Truth was, they were playing over their heads. They have lost three straight, and really they were not too competitive the last two. Monday, someone asked me this simple question: If you had a choice to build for the future, would you take this year’s Chiefs team or the 4-11-1 team from 1988 that Marty Schottenheimer inherited? The obvious answer is that you would take this year’s team. That was my thought. But look again: That 1988 team had three defensive Pro Bowlers — Dino Hackett, Albert Lewis and Deron Cherry. Defensive end Neil Smith was about to emerge, cornerback Kevin Ross had Pro Bowl years ahead, and the Chiefs had a high draft pick (which Peterson used to take Derrick Thomas). That team also had a powerful running back (Christian Okoye), a solid offensive line, two productive wide receivers and a veteran quarterback (Steve DeBerg). There were some pieces there. And the Chiefs won. Now, look at this year’s team. They will likely have no defensive Pro Bowlers this season. It’s way too early to predict that any of the young defenders will emerge the way Smith, Ross and others did. The Chiefs will have a mediocre draft pick, so they probably will not get a franchise player like Thomas. They do have the great running back, but the offensive line — especially at tackle — struggles. Hall of Famer Will Shields may retire. Trent Green doesn’t look the same after his injury, and he will be 37 before next season. The Chiefs do have the fabulous Tony Gonzalez, assuming they re-sign him. Otherwise, their receiving corps is shaky and aging fast. The point is, this Chiefs team really isn’t very good. But, like always, they had people around town (at least for a while) believing they were good. Heck, I believed it, too. This is what the Chiefs do well. They get everyone to believe. Trouble is, they’re going to miss the playoffs again. And they do that well too. Too well.
Posts: 71,920

12-20-2006, 11:04 AM	#113
MichaelH Go Chiefs! Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gastonia, North Carolina Casino cash: $9192006	The article is dead on. Will Carl read it and will it make him reconsider his ways? Will the 2007 Chiefs take a different path?
Posts: 3,187

12-20-2006, 11:16 AM	#118
milkman Dumbass! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Leading the Marty bashing Casino cash: $10029395	I don't buy into the "Carl only wants to make money" crap. He wants to win. He just doesn't know how to mange to make it happen. __________________
Posts: 70,769