Why Americans Have Become Spoiled Brats: Blame Mr. Rogers - Page 4

**Mr. Kotter** · 07-09-2007, 11:36 AM

Good read. And, from the perspective of a teacher who's been in the classroom 16 years now.....it's exactly on target, as far as I can see.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1183...ost_viewed_day

Blame It on Mr. Rogers: Why
Young Adults Feel So Entitled

July 5, 2007; Page B5

Don Chance, a finance professor at Louisiana State University, says it dawned on him last spring. The semester was ending, and as usual, students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra points needed to lift their grades to A's.

"They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me. We can blame Mr. Rogers."

Fred Rogers, the late TV icon, told several generations of children that they were "special" just for being whoever they were. He meant well, and he was a sterling role model in many ways. But what often got lost in his self-esteem-building patter was the idea that being special comes from working hard and having high expectations for yourself.

Now Mr. Rogers, like Dr. Spock before him, has been targeted for re-evaluation. And he's not the only one. As educators and researchers struggle to define the new parameters of parenting, circa 2007, some are revisiting the language of child ego-boosting. What are the downsides of telling kids they're special? Is it a mistake to have children call us by our first names? When we focus all conversations on our children's lives, are we denying them the insights found when adults talk about adult things?

Some are calling for a recalibration of the mind-sets and catch-phrases that have taken hold in recent decades. Among the expressions now being challenged:

"You're special." On the Yahoo Answers Web site, a discussion thread about Mr. Rogers begins with this posting: "Mr. Rogers spent years telling little creeps that he liked them just the way they were. He should have been telling them there was a lot of room for improvement. ... Nice as he was, and as good as his intentions may have been, he did a disservice."

Signs of narcissism among college students have been rising for 25 years, according to a recent study led by a San Diego State University psychologist. Obviously, Mr. Rogers alone can't be blamed for this. But as Prof. Chance sees it, "he's representative of a culture of excessive doting."

Prof. Chance teaches many Asian-born students, and says they accept whatever grade they're given; they see B's and C's as an indication that they must work harder, and that their elders assessed them accurately. They didn't grow up with Mr. Rogers or anyone else telling them they were born special.

By contrast, American students often view lower grades as a reason to "hit you up for an A because they came to class and feel they worked hard," says Prof. Chance. He wishes more parents would offer kids this perspective: "The world owes you nothing. You have to work and compete. If you want to be special, you'll have to prove it."

"They're just children." When kids are rude, self-absorbed or disrespectful, some parents allow or endure it by saying, "Well, they're just children." The phrase is a worthy one when it's applied to a teachable moment, such as telling kids not to stick their fingers in electrical sockets. But as an excuse or as justification for unacceptable behavior, "They're just children" is just misguided.

"Call me Cindy." Is it appropriate to place kids on the same level as adults, with all of us calling each other by our first names? On one hand, the familiarity can mark a loving closeness between child and adult. But on the other hand, when a child calls an adult Mr. or Ms., it helps him recognize that status is earned by age and experience. It's also a reminder to respect your elders.

"Tell me about your day." It is crucial to talk to kids about their lives, and that dialogue can enrich the whole family. However, parents also need to discuss their own lives and experiences, says Alvin Rosenfeld, a Manhattan-based child psychiatrist who studies family interactions.

In America today, life often begins with the anointing of "His Majesty, the Fetus," he says. From then on, many parents focus their conversations on their kids. Today's parents "are the best-educated generation ever," says Dr. Rosenfeld. "So why do our kids see us primarily discussing kids' schedules and activities?"

He encourages parents to talk about their passions and interests; about politics, business, world events. "Because everything is child-centered today, we're depriving children of adults," he says. "If they never see us as adults being adults, how will they deal with important matters when it is their world?"

Write to Jeffrey Zaslow at [email protected]3

KCChiefsMan · 07-09-2007, 06:09 PM

**HemiEd** · 07-09-2007, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsMan

well thats a fun fact I didn't know, is that really true?

I guess not, see Amnorix's post 13. Kind of deflating, I had really enjoyed the read, that included him, Captain Kangaroo and Lee Marvin, probably all bull shit.
I was a real Lee Marvin fan, but never paid much attention to the other two.

Fish · 07-09-2007, 06:31 PM

Wow.... utterly baffled by Miss Rich Bitch in the above Youtube... and then I found her reply to that.... this can't be real.... nobody is that f'n selfish and spoiled....right?

**Rain Man** · 07-09-2007, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

I guess not, see Amnorix's post 13. Kind of deflating, I had really enjoyed the read, that included him, Captain Kangaroo and Lee Marvin, probably all bull shit.
I was a real Lee Marvin fan, but never paid much attention to the other two.

When I was a kid, Captain Kangaroo, Mr. Rogers, and Lee Marvin's All-Star Cursing Hour were all on at the same time. I enjoyed watching that f****r.

Fish · 07-09-2007, 06:34 PM

Jeezuz.... it doesn't stop..... will someone please stab this twunt in the face already?

**luv** · 07-09-2007, 06:37 PM

I actually at down Saturday night and watched some marathon on VH1 of My Super Sweet Sixteen. One girl was actually 15, and still got a badass Land Rover. It was going to sit in their driveway for a year until she was able to drive it. Spoiled rotten brats. One of them was EZ-E's daughter. She rented a mansion, and got some sort of Porsche SUV.

**HemiEd** · 07-09-2007, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

When I was a kid, Captain Kangaroo, Mr. Rogers, and Lee Marvin's All-Star Cursing Hour were all on at the same time. I enjoyed watching that f****r.

Lee Marvin was about as close being a real bad ass as anyone could be, even more than the Duke IMO.

Adept Havelock · 07-09-2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Lee Marvin was about as close being a real bad ass as anyone could be, even more than the Duke IMO.

Steve McQueen ranks pretty high on that bad-ass list.

Lee Marvin actually was the man John(Marion) Wayne pretended to be.

RJ · 07-09-2007, 07:28 PM

I don't think Mr. Rogers or ex hippies have anything to do with kids being narcissists. I personally blame it on parents who think their most important role is serving as their child's advocate. Kid gets a bad grade, time to head up to the school for an argument with the teacher. Kid not a starter on the little league team? Doesn't make all-stars? Time to call the coach, maybe complain to the league president. Kid get pushed around by another kid? Don't let him handle it himself, go see the other kid's parents. Maybe get a lawyer.

For the past twenty years or so, parents never want to let a child's failures be the child's fault. Someone else is always to blame. They become narcissistic because mom and dad never allow them to understand that they're responsible for their own actions or that there are some things they're just not good at.

And, FWIW, I think this behavior applies to most parents today, not any particular "type", or political persuasion. I also think we've been heading that way for a long time and previous political trends had nothing to with it, better or worse. It's just another symptom of the "me first" mentality that has become so prevalent. This is the "my kid first" offshoot.

**Mr. Kotter** · 07-09-2007, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ

I don't think Mr. Rogers or ex hippies have anything to do with kids being narcissists. I personally blame it on parents who think their most important role is serving as their child's advocate. Kid gets a bad grade, time to head up to the school for an argument with the teacher. Kid not a starter on the little league team? Doesn't make all-stars? Time to call the coach, maybe complain to the league president. Kid get pushed around by another kid? Don't let him handle it himself, go see the other kid's parents. Maybe get a lawyer.

For the past twenty years or so, parents never want to let a child's failures be the child's fault. Someone else is always to blame. They become narcissistic because mom and dad never allow them to understand that they're responsible for their own actions or that there are some things they're just not good at.

And, FWIW, I think this behavior applies to most parents today, not any particular "type", or political persuasion. I also think we've been heading that way for a long time and previous political trends had nothing to with it, better or worse. It's just another symptom of the "me first" mentality that has become so prevalent. This is the "my kid first" offshoot.

That's a pretty good take, afaic.

I don't REALLY blame Mr. Rogers; or even the hippies for that matter (the hippie thing was more to stir things up than anything...right John?

)

Anyway, I think you are pretty close to the mark with your analysis. What I would say though, is that Mr. Rogers and the hippies....were, at least, symptomatic of the problem....if nothing else. IMO, they were manifestations of this disease, so-to-speak.

**HemiEd** · 07-09-2007, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adept Havelock

Steve McQueen ranks pretty high on that bad-ass list.

Lee Marvin actually was the man John(Marion) Wayne pretended to be.

Can't argue with any of that!

**dirk digler** · 07-09-2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ

I don't think Mr. Rogers or ex hippies have anything to do with kids being narcissists. I personally blame it on parents who think their most important role is serving as their child's advocate. Kid gets a bad grade, time to head up to the school for an argument with the teacher. Kid not a starter on the little league team? Doesn't make all-stars? Time to call the coach, maybe complain to the league president. Kid get pushed around by another kid? Don't let him handle it himself, go see the other kid's parents. Maybe get a lawyer.

For the past twenty years or so, parents never want to let a child's failures be the child's fault. Someone else is always to blame. They become narcissistic because mom and dad never allow them to understand that they're responsible for their own actions or that there are some things they're just not good at.

And, FWIW, I think this behavior applies to most parents today, not any particular "type", or political persuasion. I also think we've been heading that way for a long time and previous political trends had nothing to with it, better or worse. It's just another symptom of the "me first" mentality that has become so prevalent. This is the "my kid first" offshoot.

I totally agree. When it comes to sports I honestly believe many parents are trying to relive their pasts through their children plus they want their children to become the next Lebron James or Peyton Manning so they can become rich and famous.

Ultra Peanut · 07-09-2007, 08:35 PM

Don Chance is full of shit, and so are you.

Thig Lyfe · 07-09-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adept Havelock

Personally, I think it's Gabe Kaplan's fault.

Up your nose with a rubber hose.

**Mr. Kotter** · 07-09-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adept Havelock

.....

Personally, I think it's Gabe Kaplan's fault.

I SOMEHOW missed this VERY insulting post.

"May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your pubic region."

07-09-2007, 11:36 AM
Mr. Kotter The Dude Abides Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Dakota Country Casino cash: $3274285	Why Americans Have Become Spoiled Brats: Blame Mr. Rogers Good read. And, from the perspective of a teacher who's been in the classroom 16 years now.....it's exactly on target, as far as I can see. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1183...ost_viewed_day Blame It on Mr. Rogers: Why Young Adults Feel So Entitled July 5, 2007; Page B5 Don Chance, a finance professor at Louisiana State University, says it dawned on him last spring. The semester was ending, and as usual, students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra points needed to lift their grades to A's. "They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me. We can blame Mr. Rogers." Fred Rogers, the late TV icon, told several generations of children that they were "special" just for being whoever they were. He meant well, and he was a sterling role model in many ways. But what often got lost in his self-esteem-building patter was the idea that being special comes from working hard and having high expectations for yourself. Now Mr. Rogers, like Dr. Spock before him, has been targeted for re-evaluation. And he's not the only one. As educators and researchers struggle to define the new parameters of parenting, circa 2007, some are revisiting the language of child ego-boosting. What are the downsides of telling kids they're special? Is it a mistake to have children call us by our first names? When we focus all conversations on our children's lives, are we denying them the insights found when adults talk about adult things? Some are calling for a recalibration of the mind-sets and catch-phrases that have taken hold in recent decades. Among the expressions now being challenged: "You're special." On the Yahoo Answers Web site, a discussion thread about Mr. Rogers begins with this posting: "Mr. Rogers spent years telling little creeps that he liked them just the way they were. He should have been telling them there was a lot of room for improvement. ... Nice as he was, and as good as his intentions may have been, he did a disservice." Signs of narcissism among college students have been rising for 25 years, according to a recent study led by a San Diego State University psychologist. Obviously, Mr. Rogers alone can't be blamed for this. But as Prof. Chance sees it, "he's representative of a culture of excessive doting." Prof. Chance teaches many Asian-born students, and says they accept whatever grade they're given; they see B's and C's as an indication that they must work harder, and that their elders assessed them accurately. They didn't grow up with Mr. Rogers or anyone else telling them they were born special. By contrast, American students often view lower grades as a reason to "hit you up for an A because they came to class and feel they worked hard," says Prof. Chance. He wishes more parents would offer kids this perspective: "The world owes you nothing. You have to work and compete. If you want to be special, you'll have to prove it." "They're just children." When kids are rude, self-absorbed or disrespectful, some parents allow or endure it by saying, "Well, they're just children." The phrase is a worthy one when it's applied to a teachable moment, such as telling kids not to stick their fingers in electrical sockets. But as an excuse or as justification for unacceptable behavior, "They're just children" is just misguided. "Call me Cindy." Is it appropriate to place kids on the same level as adults, with all of us calling each other by our first names? On one hand, the familiarity can mark a loving closeness between child and adult. But on the other hand, when a child calls an adult Mr. or Ms., it helps him recognize that status is earned by age and experience. It's also a reminder to respect your elders. "Tell me about your day." It is crucial to talk to kids about their lives, and that dialogue can enrich the whole family. However, parents also need to discuss their own lives and experiences, says Alvin Rosenfeld, a Manhattan-based child psychiatrist who studies family interactions. In America today, life often begins with the anointing of "His Majesty, the Fetus," he says. From then on, many parents focus their conversations on their kids. Today's parents "are the best-educated generation ever," says Dr. Rosenfeld. "So why do our kids see us primarily discussing kids' schedules and activities?" He encourages parents to talk about their passions and interests; about politics, business, world events. "Because everything is child-centered today, we're depriving children of adults," he says. "If they never see us as adults being adults, how will they deal with important matters when it is their world?" Write to Jeffrey Zaslow at [email protected]3
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07-09-2007, 06:09 PM	#46
KCChiefsMan AIC Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: West Roxbury, MA Casino cash: $10004900
Posts: 11,478

07-09-2007, 06:31 PM	#48
Fish Ain't no relax! Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $-1411081	Wow.... utterly baffled by Miss Rich Bitch in the above Youtube... and then I found her reply to that.... this can't be real.... nobody is that f'n selfish and spoiled....right? __________________
Posts: 48,854

07-09-2007, 06:34 PM	#50
Fish Ain't no relax! Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $-1411081	Jeezuz.... it doesn't stop..... will someone please stab this twunt in the face already? __________________
Posts: 48,854

07-09-2007, 06:37 PM	#51
luv You think you can get by this? Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Springfield, MO Casino cash: $-1240000	I actually at down Saturday night and watched some marathon on VH1 of My Super Sweet Sixteen. One girl was actually 15, and still got a badass Land Rover. It was going to sit in their driveway for a year until she was able to drive it. Spoiled rotten brats. One of them was EZ-E's daughter. She rented a mansion, and got some sort of Porsche SUV.
Posts: 63,563

07-09-2007, 07:28 PM	#54
RJ Supporter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: In a shotgun shack Casino cash: $9895202	I don't think Mr. Rogers or ex hippies have anything to do with kids being narcissists. I personally blame it on parents who think their most important role is serving as their child's advocate. Kid gets a bad grade, time to head up to the school for an argument with the teacher. Kid not a starter on the little league team? Doesn't make all-stars? Time to call the coach, maybe complain to the league president. Kid get pushed around by another kid? Don't let him handle it himself, go see the other kid's parents. Maybe get a lawyer. For the past twenty years or so, parents never want to let a child's failures be the child's fault. Someone else is always to blame. They become narcissistic because mom and dad never allow them to understand that they're responsible for their own actions or that there are some things they're just not good at. And, FWIW, I think this behavior applies to most parents today, not any particular "type", or political persuasion. I also think we've been heading that way for a long time and previous political trends had nothing to with it, better or worse. It's just another symptom of the "me first" mentality that has become so prevalent. This is the "my kid first" offshoot.
Posts: 14,938

07-09-2007, 08:35 PM	#58
Ultra Peanut v^V^v^V^v^V^ Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Holland* Casino cash: $10005177	Don Chance is full of shit, and so are you. __________________
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