Why do we suck in 2007? Blame our drafts and King Carl. Evidence can't be denied. - Page 4

**BigRedChief** · 10-08-2007, 10:15 AM

I agree with most everyone here that from the 2003 LJ/Jared Allen drafts we have been doing a good job with our drafts. But we are still suffing in 2007 because of these draft years between Tony G and LJ.

2002 - Kansas City Chiefs
Rd Sel # Player Position
1 6 Ryan Sims DT
2 43 Eddie Freeman DT
4 107 Omar Easy RB
5 143 Scott Fujita OLB
7 221 Maurice Rodriguez

2001 - Kansas City Chiefs
Rd Sel # Player Position
3 75 Eric Downing DT
3 77 Snoop Minnis WR
4 107 Monty Beisel DE
4 108 George LayneRB
5 141 Billy Baber TE
5 150 Derrick Blaylock RB
6 176 Alex Sulfsted T
7 212 Shaunard Harts DB
7 243 Terdell Sands DT

2000 - Kansas City Chiefs
Rd Sel # Player Position
1 21 Sylvester Morris WR
2 54 William Bartee CB
3 85 Greg Wesley SS
4 115 Frank Moreau RB
5 153 Dante Hall RB
5 162 Pat Dennis CB
6 188 Darnell Alford T
7 208 Desmond Kitchings WR

1999 - Kansas City Chiefs
Rd Sel # Player Position
1 14 John Tait T
2 54 Mike Cloud RB
3 75 Gary Stills LB
3 84 Larry Atkins DB
4 108 Larry Parker WR
7 220 Eric King --

1998 - Kansas City Chiefs
Rd Sel # Player Position
1 27 Victor Riley T
3 88 Rashaan Shehee RB
4 120 Greg Favors ILB
5 128 Robert Williams DB
6 181 Derrick Ransom DT
7 216 Eric Warfield DB
7 224 Ernest Blackwell

**HemiEd** · 10-09-2007, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefGator

The years in the thread starter... 1998-2002 inclusive.

Then Trent Green and Dick Vermeil should be included, as they were two very high picks. But then, it wouldn't look as bad.

**ChiefGator** · 10-09-2007, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

What is the combined draft record of all of the other GM's in the league?

You guys seem to forget that there are more busts in the drafts than superstars. It's always been that way and always will.

Okay just for fun... Let's look at Baltimore. I choose them since they are generally competitive, but have also lacked balance. So, I expected to see alot of offensive busts in their drafts.

---------------------------------------
EXHIBIT A: BALTIMORE RAVENS

COMPLETE DRAFTS

2002 - Baltimore Ravens
(baltimore) 1 24 Ed Reed SS
(texans) 2 52 Anthony Weaver DE
(browns) 4 112 Dave Zastudil P
4 123 Ron Johnson WR
5 155 Terry Jones TE
6 195 Lamont Brightful WR
6 206 Javin Hunter WR
(vikes) 6 207 Chester Taylor RB
(chiefs?) 6 209 Chad Williams DB
7 236 Wes Pate QB

2001 - Baltimore Ravens
Rd Sel # Player Position School
(baltimore) 1 31 Todd Heap TE
(backup for browns) 2 62 Gary Baxter DB
(redskins) 3 92 Casey Rabach C
(unemployed) 4 126 Edgerton Hartwell LB
5 161 Chris Barnes --
6 194 Joe Maese C
7 231 Dwayne Missouri DE

2000 - Baltimore Ravens
Rd Sel # Player Position School
(browns) 1 5 Jamal Lewis RB
(oakland) 1 10 Travis Taylor WR
(atlanta) 3 75 Chris Redman QB
5 148 Richard Mercier G
(patriots) 6 186 Adalius Thomas DE
6 191 Cedric Woodard DE

1999 - Baltimore Ravens
Rd Sel # Player Position School
(baltimore) 1 10 Chris McAlister CB
(broncos) 4 105 Brandon Stokley WR (lions)
4 129 Edwin Mulitalo G
7 216 Anthony Poindexter DB

1998 - Baltimore Ravens
Rd Sel # Player Position School
(raiders) 1 10 Duane Starks CB
2 42 Pat Johnson WR
5 124 Martin Chase DT
5 133 Ryan Sutter DB
6 154 Ron Rogers LB
6 164 Sammy Williams T
7 241 Cam Quayle

---------------------------------------
ANALYSIS

Total Drafted Players: 34

Players still on the Ravens roster: 3
. Ed Reed SS
. Todd Heap TE
. Chris McAlister CB

Players on other teams rosters: 12
. Chester Taylor RB ( vikes )
. Anthony Weaver DE (texans)
. Dave Zastudil P (browns)
. Gary Baxter DB (browns)
. Casey Rabach C (redskins)
. Jamal Lewis RB (browns)
. Travis Taylor WR (oakland)
. Chris Redman QB (altanta)
. Adalius Thomas DE/LB (patriots)
. Brandon Stokley WR (broncos)
. Edwin Mulitalo G (lions)
. Duane Starks CB (raiders)

Other players of note: 2
. Edgerton Hartwell LB (first year unemployed)
. Chad Williams DB (supposedly with the chiefs.. probably cut)

Perhaps I chose badly, since I forgot Baltimore won the 2001 Super Bowl. Only three players remain on their roster but ALOT of the other players were key contributors. And overall, 17 of those players are still around football, or were in a camp this summer.

And these players were alot more productive than those we chose.

Should I look at another team? Need a nomination of a team that has been fairly competitive consistently, but not an elite team.

Mark

**ChiefGator** · 10-09-2007, 07:31 AM

So, Baltimore has 3 players on their roster still, and they are all big contributors. Almost twice as many of the players they selected are still playing football.

That says something.

**BigRedChief** · 10-09-2007, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefGator

Perhaps I chose badly, since I forgot Baltimore won the 2001 Super Bowl. Only three players remain on their roster but ALOT of the other players were key contributors. And overall, 17 of those players are still around football, or were in a camp this summer.

And these players were alot more productive than those we chose.

Should I look at another team? Need a nomination of a team that has been fairly competitive consistently, but not an elite team.

Mark

It's hard because so many AFL teams have been to a Super Bowl during those years or since 1997.

bringbackmarty · 10-09-2007, 08:07 AM

sandy eggo do them next, or teh donx

**ChiefGator** · 10-09-2007, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Then Trent Green and Dick Vermeil should be included, as they were two very high picks. But then, it wouldn't look as bad.

That's not drafting.. that's pissing away draft picks... :-P

Those are trades. I'm not saying we can't spot talent once it has been in the league, or is a known quantity. I think this thread is in regards to how our actual drafts have gone down between these five years.

Not going to get into how we should build through the draft instead of trading for players that will last five years or give high draft picks for coaches.

Ooops... I did it again...

**ChiefGator** · 10-09-2007, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bringbackmarty

sandy eggo do them next, or teh donx

Yeah, I was really thinking about San Diego. Of course, they were bottom feeders for most of this time. Crappy, crappy teams, so we probably shouldn't take them as a point for lesson.

Let's do Denver since they have been fairly competitive year-in and year-out as well.

**ChiefGator** · 10-09-2007, 08:34 AM

EXHIBIT B - DENVER BRONCOS

(I'm not going to bother with the entire list, unless someone really wants it. It can be found here:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/ful...1400&type=team )

ANALYSIS

Total Drafted Players: 43

Players still on the Ravens roster: 2
. Ian Gold LB
. Ben Hamilton C/G

Players on other teams rosters: 15
. Ashley Lelie WR (49ers)
. Clinton Portis RB (redskins)
. Jeb Putzier TE (texans)
. Reggie Hayward DE (jags)
. Nick Harris P (lions)
. Deltha O'Neal CB (bengals)
. Kenoy Kennedy SAF (lions)
. Cooper Carlisle G (raiders)
. Mike Anderson RB (ravens)
. Montae Reagor DE (eagles)
. Lennie Friedman C (browns)
. David Bowens LB (jets)
. Desmond Clark TE (bears)
. Billy Miller WR/TE (saints)
. Brian Griese QB (bears)

Other players of note: 1
. Al Wilson LB (first year of unemployment)

Looks like even Shanahan drafts better than us, and he goes out to free agency like mad every off-season.

**ChiefGator** · 10-09-2007, 08:39 AM

Okay.. now the comparison...

Chiefs drafted 35 times over these five years with 1 (3%) remaining on our roster and 7 ( 20% ) remaining on a NFL team.

Ravens drafted 34 times over these five years with 3 ( 9% ) remaining on their roster and 12 (35%) remaining on a NFL team.

Broncos drafted 43 times over these five years with 2 (5%) remaining on their roster and 15 (35%) remaining on a NFL team.

**BigRedChief** · 10-09-2007, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefGator

Okay.. now the comparison...

Chiefs drafted 35 times over these five years with 1 (3%) remaining on our roster and 7 ( 20% ) remaining on a NFL team.

Ravens drafted 34 times over these five years with 3 ( 9% ) remaining on their roster and 12 (35%) remaining on a NFL team.

Broncos drafted 43 times over these five years with 2 (5%) remaining on their roster and 15 (35%) remaining on a NFL team.

There's also quality to consider.
Balt:
Ed Reed SS
. Todd Heap TE
. Chris McAlister CB

Donks:
Ian Gold LB
. Ben Hamilton C/G

Are a helluva lot better than Greg Wesley.

donkhater · 10-09-2007, 09:18 AM

Look at the Colts over the same time frame and you'll be stunned to see how good they've been at drafting.

Virtually their entire starting offense has been #1 or #2 picks by them

Manning
Harrison
Wayne
Addai
Clark
Ugoh

Not to mention last years #1, Anthoney Gonzalez, their #3 WR

Wouldn't be shocked to see some other O-lineman choosen on the first day.

Defensively,
Marlin Jackson
Bob Sanders
Dwight Freeny

Those are only the 1st and second rounders I can think of. I'm sure there are many other draft picks still on thier roster. It's digustingly good drafting.

**The Franchise** · 10-09-2007, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donkhater

Look at the Colts over the same time frame and you'll be stunned to see how good they've been at drafting.

Virtually their entire starting offense has been #1 or #2 picks by them

Manning
Harrison
Wayne
Addai
Clark
Ugoh

Not to mention last years #1, Anthoney Gonzalez, their #3 WR

Wouldn't be shocked to see some other O-lineman choosen on the first day.

Defensively,
Marlin Jackson
Bob Sanders
Dwight Freeny

Those are only the 1st and second rounders I can think of. I'm sure there are many other draft picks still on thier roster. It's digustingly good drafting.

The Colts are the epitome of a well run FO.

BigChiefFan · 10-09-2007, 09:32 AM

I would say the Packers or Jets are a far comparasion to our team. They're usually a middle of the pack type teams.

**MahiMike** · 10-09-2007, 09:56 AM

Throw out all the players names. There's only one trade you need to look at that'll explain the 2007 woes - Vermiel for Herm.

Dr. Van Halen · 10-09-2007, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefGator

Okay.. now the comparison...

Chiefs drafted 35 times over these five years with 1 (3%) remaining on our roster and 7 ( 20% ) remaining on a NFL team.

Ravens drafted 34 times over these five years with 3 ( 9% ) remaining on their roster and 12 (35%) remaining on a NFL team.

Broncos drafted 43 times over these five years with 2 (5%) remaining on their roster and 15 (35%) remaining on a NFL team.

I find this underwhelming evidence of massive suckiness.

The draft is a crapshoot. Every team is fairly bad at it.

10-08-2007, 10:15 AM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-851038 VARSITY	Why do we suck in 2007? Blame our drafts and King Carl. Evidence can't be denied. I agree with most everyone here that from the 2003 LJ/Jared Allen drafts we have been doing a good job with our drafts. But we are still suffing in 2007 because of these draft years between Tony G and LJ. 2002 - Kansas City Chiefs Rd Sel # Player Position 1 6 Ryan Sims DT 2 43 Eddie Freeman DT 4 107 Omar Easy RB 5 143 Scott Fujita OLB 7 221 Maurice Rodriguez 2001 - Kansas City Chiefs Rd Sel # Player Position 3 75 Eric Downing DT 3 77 Snoop Minnis WR 4 107 Monty Beisel DE 4 108 George LayneRB 5 141 Billy Baber TE 5 150 Derrick Blaylock RB 6 176 Alex Sulfsted T 7 212 Shaunard Harts DB 7 243 Terdell Sands DT 2000 - Kansas City Chiefs Rd Sel # Player Position 1 21 Sylvester Morris WR 2 54 William Bartee CB 3 85 Greg Wesley SS 4 115 Frank Moreau RB 5 153 Dante Hall RB 5 162 Pat Dennis CB 6 188 Darnell Alford T 7 208 Desmond Kitchings WR 1999 - Kansas City Chiefs Rd Sel # Player Position 1 14 John Tait T 2 54 Mike Cloud RB 3 75 Gary Stills LB 3 84 Larry Atkins DB 4 108 Larry Parker WR 7 220 Eric King -- 1998 - Kansas City Chiefs Rd Sel # Player Position 1 27 Victor Riley T 3 88 Rashaan Shehee RB 4 120 Greg Favors ILB 5 128 Robert Williams DB 6 181 Derrick Ransom DT 7 216 Eric Warfield DB 7 224 Ernest Blackwell
Posts: 81,375

10-09-2007, 07:31 AM	#48
ChiefGator Can these boys not play? Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Northcentral Florida Casino cash: $6452956	So, Baltimore has 3 players on their roster still, and they are all big contributors. Almost twice as many of the players they selected are still playing football. That says something. __________________ - Mark
Posts: 4,706

10-09-2007, 08:07 AM	#50
bringbackmarty Gonna go back in time.... Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $1225510	sandy eggo do them next, or teh donx __________________ https://www.facebook.com/The-Pheasan...6018120266009/
Posts: 3,085

10-09-2007, 08:34 AM	#53
ChiefGator Can these boys not play? Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Northcentral Florida Casino cash: $6452956	EXHIBIT B - DENVER BRONCOS (I'm not going to bother with the entire list, unless someone really wants it. It can be found here: http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/ful...1400&type=team ) ANALYSIS Total Drafted Players: 43 Players still on the Ravens roster: 2 . Ian Gold LB . Ben Hamilton C/G Players on other teams rosters: 15 . Ashley Lelie WR (49ers) . Clinton Portis RB (redskins) . Jeb Putzier TE (texans) . Reggie Hayward DE (jags) . Nick Harris P (lions) . Deltha O'Neal CB (bengals) . Kenoy Kennedy SAF (lions) . Cooper Carlisle G (raiders) . Mike Anderson RB (ravens) . Montae Reagor DE (eagles) . Lennie Friedman C (browns) . David Bowens LB (jets) . Desmond Clark TE (bears) . Billy Miller WR/TE (saints) . Brian Griese QB (bears) Other players of note: 1 . Al Wilson LB (first year of unemployment) Looks like even Shanahan drafts better than us, and he goes out to free agency like mad every off-season. __________________ - Mark
Posts: 4,706

10-09-2007, 08:39 AM	#54
ChiefGator Can these boys not play? Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Northcentral Florida Casino cash: $6452956	Okay.. now the comparison... Chiefs drafted 35 times over these five years with 1 (3%) remaining on our roster and 7 ( 20% ) remaining on a NFL team. Ravens drafted 34 times over these five years with 3 ( 9% ) remaining on their roster and 12 (35%) remaining on a NFL team. Broncos drafted 43 times over these five years with 2 (5%) remaining on their roster and 15 (35%) remaining on a NFL team. __________________ - Mark
Posts: 4,706

10-09-2007, 09:18 AM	#56
donkhater Brilliant!! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Indiana, USA Casino cash: $10014051	Look at the Colts over the same time frame and you'll be stunned to see how good they've been at drafting. Virtually their entire starting offense has been #1 or #2 picks by them Manning Harrison Wayne Addai Clark Ugoh Not to mention last years #1, Anthoney Gonzalez, their #3 WR Wouldn't be shocked to see some other O-lineman choosen on the first day. Defensively, Marlin Jackson Bob Sanders Dwight Freeny Those are only the 1st and second rounders I can think of. I'm sure there are many other draft picks still on thier roster. It's digustingly good drafting. __________________ The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants
Posts: 3,994

10-09-2007, 09:32 AM	#58
BigChiefFan MVP Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: In the Top 10 Casino cash: $9924205	I would say the Packers or Jets are a far comparasion to our team. They're usually a middle of the pack type teams. __________________ A 35 year drought can make you thirsty.
Posts: 15,777

10-09-2007, 09:56 AM	#59
MahiMike He's Mahomie! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Jax, FL Casino cash: $10023443	Throw out all the players names. There's only one trade you need to look at that'll explain the 2007 woes - Vermiel for Herm.
Posts: 17,387