Is there ANY Scenario Where Solari Stays in 2008?

[KCJohnny]

Usually a bottom feeder performance means a demotion/firing.
Driving the most powerful O in the league into the bottom of the basement should mean a dismissal - even during the season.

The only scenario I can foresee that includes Solari involves Herm admitting that He is the reason our "arena football" offense died the death. Herm will either have to take responsibility for that putrid offense or throw Solari under the bus.

I am hoping Norv gets canned in SD and we get him to build a real Coryell offense again.

[Zouk]

Originally Posted by pikesome

It also is part of the problem. We're trying to win with D which is near impossible in the NFL any more. If the team took more risks, even if they were unsuccessful, we'd have a better chance, IMHO. Playing it tight hasn't worked well, we ought to at least try to go balls out.

The only teams to beat the Colts in the RCA dome in a meaningful game over the last 3 years are the Pats this year and the Steelers in the 2005 playoffs. Both games went down to the wire, and both victors are/were Super Bowl champs.

The Chiefs got closer than anyone else over the last 3 years, even though we were playing a QB in first game, our only good receiver is a rookie, and the right side of the offensive line is amongst the worst in NFL history. We were widely picked to win about 4 games this year.

The Colts get 2-3 interceptions / strip sacks at home in virtually all games. Check the boxscores. We held them to 1 in this game, and we had a chance. If we aired it out, there would have been more turnovers and we would not have had a chance. The percentages are very clear on this.

[pikesome]

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

I read on the Dick Curl thread that he as assistant HC has veto power over Solari's play calling. Thoughts?

I don't know about this. I hope it's not true but if it is it means that Solari stays or DC takes over, I don't see any other outcome. And DC calling plays scares me, Solari isn't completely incompetent and, I think, is improving.

Let's get one thing straight. What we saw yesterday was the game plan scripted for young Brodie to not get humiliated in his first start against the defending SB champs. They ran about 10 different plays that they probably meticulously prepared for in practice.

I agree 110%. The play calling looked to be tailored for what they thought would work and Croyle's inexperience. The lack of adjustment seemed to be the most glaring problem. The Colts adjusted and we didn't, that might be lack of faith (or ability) in Brodie or chickenshitedness, I don't know.

I wonder if the whole playbook is open (both pages, front and back ) and Solari tries to game plan to this offense's actual strengths (saw faint glipses of that yesterday) whether we may arrive at the arena league like 20 ppg? I mean, is the potential there or not? Is it the play calling or do we just stink?

I think it is. Solari is getting better but he's got a conservative HC (and GM probably), a lack of talent on the Oline, a lack of experience at QB and a good D. The smart (or scaredy, depending on how you look at it) gameplan is more conservative, try to finish the season without embarrassment and getting experience for the younger guys. Then work next year fixing the problems.

I just wish we'd open it up a bit more, it's like not talking to a girl because she's not going to respond so you just give up and go home to beat one out. That's the safe plan.

[KCJohnny]

Originally Posted by Zouk

The only teams to beat the Colts in the RCA dome in a meaningful game over the last 3 years are the Pats this year and the Steelers in the 2005 playoffs. Both games went down to the wire, and both victors are/were Super Bowl champs.

The Chiefs have got closer than anyone else over the last 3 years, even though we were playing a QB in first game, our only good receiver is a rookie, and the right side of the offensive line is amongst the worst in NFL history. We were widely picked to win about 4 games this year.

The Colts get 2-3 interceptions / strip sacks at home in virtually all games. Check the boxscores. We held them to 1 in this game, and we had a chance. If we aired it out, there would have been more turnovers and we would not have had a chance. The percentages are very clear on this.

We have the final possession of the first half and Indy gets the ball first in the 2nd half.
So what do we do? With 1:15 remaining and 3 TOs, we run out the clock. Gutless. I agree, we don't need 45 passing attempts, but that just says "surrender".

[pikesome]

Originally Posted by Zouk

The only teams to beat the Colts in the RCA dome in a meaningful game over the last 3 years are the Pats this year and the Steelers in the 2005 playoffs. Both games went down to the wire, and both victors are/were Super Bowl champs.

The Chiefs got closer than anyone else over the last 3 years, even though we were playing a QB in first game, our only good receiver is a rookie, and the right side of the offensive line is amongst the worst in NFL history. We were widely picked to win about 4 games this year.

The Colts get 2-3 interceptions / strip sacks at home in virtually all games. Check the boxscores. We held them to 1 in this game, and we had a chance. If we aired it out, there would have been more turnovers and we would not have had a chance. The percentages are very clear on this.

I can't disagree but, at least in my mind, this season is a rebuilding one. I don't care what 1 Arrowhead calls it, we're building for next year or the year after. Instead of trying so damn hard to get the D to win it we could have been more aggressive. Would we win? Probably not but we didn't win this time either. But we would have laid the groundwork for the future when our Oline doesn't stink and our QB is more confident.

[KCJohnny]

Originally Posted by pikesome

I don't know about this. I hope it's not true but if it is it means that Solari stays or DC takes over, I don't see any other outcome. And DC calling plays scares me, Solari isn't completely incompetent and, I think, is improving.

I agree 110%. The play calling looked to be tailored for what they thought would work and Croyle's inexperience. The lack of adjustment seemed to be the most glaring problem. The Colts adjusted and we didn't, that might be lack of faith (or ability) in Brodie or chickenshitedness, I don't know.

I think it is. Solari is getting better but he's got a conservative HC (and GM probably), a lack of talent on the Oline, a lack of experience at QB and a good D. The smart (or scaredy, depending on how you look at it) gameplan is more conservative, try to finish the season without embarrassment and getting experience for the younger guys. Then work next year fixing the problems.

I just wish we'd open it up a bit more, it's like not talking to a girl because she's not going to respond so you just give up and go home to beat one out. That's the safe plan.

I though those were thoughtful comments until your last allegory.

My gut tells me you are right - it's more Herm and his BucBall/NO Areana League attitude that is holding the team back. Perhaps Solari can do better next year with a new OLT, a new RG and moving MacIntosh to ORT?

[Chiefnj2]

It is set up perfectly for Curl. Back in January/February I called Solari being the scapegoat for 2007.

They'll improve the OL via free agency and the draft and Curl will get credit for moving the offense from 32nd to 25th and Herm will say it was a step in the right direction, etc.

[pikesome]

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

I though those were thoughtful comments until your last allegory.

I couldn't think of another example, we play like we're afraid of being beat badly. Not "trying not to lose", "trying not to get embarrassed". Like hurt feelings is the most important thing to avoid.

My gut tells me you are right - it's more Herm and his BucBall/NO Areana League attitude that is holding the team back. Perhaps Solari can do better next year with a new OLT, a new RG and moving MacIntosh to ORT?

I'm not ready to give up on Herm, his management isn't completely bad. I'm really interested in how much CP has said to him. The whole Brodie deal reeked of the GM and Herm isn't the kind of guy who's going to tell his GM to butt out. I can see Carl making it clear that he doesn't want to be embarrassed and implying that a 4-12 season would result in Herm carrying Peterson's bags out the door in 2009. Herm's not in a position where he dictates his own agenda.

[KCJohnny]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

It is set up perfectly for Curl. Back in January/February I called Solari being the scapegoat for 2007.

They'll improve the OL via free agency and the draft and Curl will get credit for moving the offense from 32nd to 25th and Herm will say it was a step in the right direction, etc.

Heck, 25th might get us in the playoffs.

I hear ya, tho. I hope we get a veteran OC in here like Norv or Dave Shula. No more promoting from within.

[Mr. Laz]

i expect Solari to be back next year unless Herm needs a fall guy.


Solari is running the offense just like Herm wants him too but Herm will throw him under the bus if he needs to.

[ceebz]

Not a chance in hell.... Solari will be this season's Greg Robinson.

[KCJohnny]

Originally Posted by pikesome

I couldn't think of another example, we play like we're afraid of being beat badly. Not "trying not to lose", "trying not to get embarrassed". Like hurt feelings is the most important thing to avoid.



I'm not ready to give up on Herm, his management isn't completely bad. I'm really interested in how much CP has said to him. The whole Brodie deal reeked of the GM and Herm isn't the kind of guy who's going to tell his GM to butt out. I can see Carl making it clear that he doesn't want to be embarrassed and implying that a 4-12 season would result in Herm carrying Peterson's bags out the door in 2009. Herm's not in a position where he dictates his own agenda.

True dat. I've never been a fan of "keep the score down and try to win in the 4th quarter." ?????? You have to try to dominate your opponent in every phase of the game. Playing field position and hoping the other team beats themselves has proven to get you 9-7 and a 1st round exit. Going into halftime with all 3 TOs unspent on our final possession was deplorable.

You obviously know some things that I don't with your 2nd paragraph. I agree - it smells like Carl - but it tastes like BucBall to me.

[FringeNC]

Originally Posted by Laz

i expect Solari to be back next year unless Herm needs a fall guy.


Solari is running the offense just like Herm wants him too but Herm will throw him under the bus if he needs to.

That's exactly right. Solari is OC in name only. Dick Curl is really our offensive coordinator. Ever wonder why the players are always mad at Curl instead of Solari?

[pikesome]

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

True dat. I've never been a fan of "keep the score down and try to win in the 4th quarter." ?????? You have to try to dominate your opponent in every phase of the game. Playing field position and hoping the other team beats themselves has proven to get you 9-7 and a 1st round exit. Going into halftime with all 3 TOs unspent on our final possession was deplorable.

You obviously know some things that I don't with your 2nd paragraph. I agree - it smells like Carl - but it tastes like BucBall to me.

Herm's a Marty man, conservative is his MO. But I'm wondering if the King isn't dead-set against anything stinking before he walks after 2009. He's leaving for sure, and not early IMHO, but it would be a nasty punctuation mark on his career if the Chiefs went 4-12, 5-11 his last two seasons as GM. He doesn't have a signature season to distract people from a bad, bad couple of seasons. His thinking (and I am guessing here) is for the team to not look like crap so that's not what people outside KC remember about him.

[bobbything]

Herm doesn't like the offensive scheme. He's only keeping Solari on because most of the players on offense know it so well. I'll bet that if Herm starts cleaning some O-linemen out, that Solari will go as well (at least as OC), and we'll see a different offense in place next year.

Hell, Herm even admitted that they basically dumbed down the offense. He thought it was needlessly complex. However, he then went onto say that "the offense hasn't changed."

Well, which is it?

[Zouk]

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

We have the final possession of the first half and Indy gets the ball first in the 2nd half.
So what do we do? With 1:15 remaining and 3 TOs, we run out the clock. Gutless. I agree, we don't need 45 passing attempts, but that just says "surrender".

The way the Chiefs would win that game with this talent is not with guts. I know it's complicated to understand, but it's true. The Chiefs had no business being in that game, but with a few made kicks, no Terry-caused Croyle fumble, no Kennison fumble, better punting, and 1 more stop from the D we win. That's amazing. We did that by playing AROUND the offense, not through it.

It will not always be this way. There will be at least 5 new starters on O next year, and Croyle will have more experience. But that's the best way for the team on the road against a top 5 team until we can get to the offseason. This game proved it - it didn't disprove it.