Chiefs Explain to me why we need to give Herm more time - Page 6

**Dave Lane** · 12-17-2007, 11:14 AM

After seeing my worst fears come true in Herm with the Jetsification of the Chiefs (a top 5 draft pick) and the destruction of a team. I wonder in this microwave world of instant gratification how is it we cling to the notion 2 years doesn't set a trend especially giving his previous body of work. So I thought well surely 2 years must be handed out like candy in the past to any head coach and then it occurred to me to check the Chiefs history to confirm this.

Chiefs Head Coaches with shortest tenures:

Tom Bettis - 1977
Frank Gansz - 1987-1988
Gunther Cunningham - 1999-2000
Paul Wiggin - 1975-1977
John Mackovic - 1983-1986

Thats half of the Chiefs Head Coaches in the history of this team. 3 of them are 2 years or less. So in the present world why not cut ties with Herm. Actually excluding Herm 33% of Chiefs coaches have had a tenure of 2 years or less. And yes I know Bettis is a bad choice. Still 2 years of Herm like performance has cost coaches their jobs in the past.

Dave

Halfcan · 12-17-2007, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Vermiel was 14-18 his first 2 years
Herm will like be 13-19 his first 2 years

There is only ONE man on the Chiefs offensive line that would start for ANY other team in the NFL: Brian Waters.

Herm was left with a perennial #32 ranked defense and an aging offense that saw TWO HOF lineman retire in two consecutive years.

Herm has begun to stock the roster with talented *football players*, most of which have been solid. With ten picks in the 2008 draft and plenty of serviceable players available via free-agency, this team should compete for a playoff spot in 2008.

Herm should be given at least three years to overhaul the roster.

Then, it's on him to produce. If he doesn't, fire him.

Bob Gretz is that You?? Where are these talented players you speak of-oh yeah

Tank N Turk the Ultimate QB destroyers!!!!

Halfcan · 12-17-2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Whiffing? So you've determined after 14 games that neither of these guys will be solid NFL defensive lineman? Seriously?

WHIFFING is Eddie Freeman, Eric Downing, Junior Siavii and Ryan Sims. Guys who have NO place on an NFL roster.

Tank and Turk gained valuable playing time and learning experience. Claiming that they're "busts" after 14 games is tenuous at best.

Well they didn't show much in Camp, Preseason or after 14 games- I mean they have what 4 tackles between them???

How many tackles did Jared have his first year? You either have the talent or you don't. Many thought they were Bust picks to start-and unfortunately they look like Ryan Simms wanna be's so far.

But they are good at slap fighting.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-17-2007, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan

Bob Gretz is that You?? Where are these talented players you speak of-oh yeah

Tank N Turk the Ultimate QB destroyers!!!!

Come on, Dude.

Hali
Pollard
Page
Smith
Croyle
Bowe

All of those guys are solid football players that will be in the league for years to come. They all may not be superstars, but great football teams have a solid core of good football teams a maybe one or two superstar players.

This team NEEDS good, solid football players. And they're finally starting to stockpile a few.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-17-2007, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan

Well they didn't show much in Camp, Preseason or after 14 games- I mean they have what 4 tackles between them???

How many tackles did Jared have his first year? You either have the talent or you don't. Many thought they were Bust picks to start-and unfortunately they look like Ryan Simms wanna be's so far.

But they are good at slap fighting.

Tank Tyler has 8 tackles in 13 games, 5 solo.

Turk McBride has 10 tackes (7 solo) and 1 sack in 14 games.

Alfonso Boone was 20 tackles in 15 games and 1 sack.

Ron Edwards has 20 tackles in 15 games and 3 sacks.

So while their numbers aren't as high as the veterans, I don't know how many snaps each player has played. But IMO, they're doing "okay" and will only improve. It's not like either guy has hit his peak.

Halfcan · 12-17-2007, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Come on, Dude.

Hali
Pollard
Page
Smith
Croyle
Bowe

All of those guys are solid football players that will be in the league for years to come. They all may not be superstars, but great football teams have a solid core of good football teams a maybe one or two superstar players.

This team NEEDS good, solid football players. And they're finally starting to stockpile a few.

Out of how many picks? I really like Hali-could be an All pro-so I will give him that one. Bowe was a HUGE surprise as well.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-17-2007, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan

Out of how many picks? I really like Hali-could be an All pro-so I will give him that one. Bowe was a HUGE surprise as well.

Why were Hali and Bowe "HUGE" surprises? Because Chiefs fans were so used to poor drafting in the previous 5 years under DV?

NFL teams expect their first round picks to contribute immediately, the second rounders by year two, third rounders by year three and second day players to provide depth down the road.

The Chiefs seem to have done well with their first round picks the past two years and have hit on some second day picks (Page & Smith, for example). Jeff Webb *may* be a solid contributor (not a superstar), and free agent Rudy Niswanger *may* be a solid right guard (if he can stay healthy).

Throw in Croyle and Page and I'd say the Chiefs have had pretty successful drafts the past two years. And it's likely that all of the players chosen will continue to improve.

smittysbar · 12-17-2007, 06:28 PM

Hali has not had a good year.

Boone has not played 15 reg season games yet.

Page and Pollard, though I have not gave up on them, have not been great this year either.

3rd round Kicker Medlock - worked out great.

Though for some reason you think Turk and Tank have gained a lot of experience playing this year. They have not gotten to play a lot.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-17-2007, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smittysbar

Hali has not had a good year.

Boone has not played 15 reg season games yet.

Page and Pollard, though I have not gave up on them, have not been great this year either.

3rd round Kicker Medlock - worked out great.

Though for some reason you think Turk and Tank have gained a lot of experience playing this year. They have not gotten to play a lot.

Medlock was a fifth round pick. You're going to bust ass on a fifth round pick? Ludicrous.

Hali has been hurt all year, yet his numbers are just slightly below his rookie campaign. He'll be fine next year, if not great.

Page and Pollard are playing like second year players. Solid, if not spectacular.

And if you think that Tank & Turk haven't played much this year, then you need to give them props for putting up half the numbers of the starters. What does that tell you?

Hammock Parties · 12-17-2007, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smittysbar

3rd round Kicker Medlock - worked out great.

It'd be nice if you actually knew what you were talking about. Medlock was drafted in the 5th round.

smittysbar · 12-17-2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOATSE

It'd be nice if you actually knew what you were talking about. Medlock was drafted in the 5th round.

That's right my bad, I was thinking about Turk and Tank and put down the wrong thing but you got the point.

Good thing you never mess up

. But I guess that's easy to do when you jump around on most of what you say

Messier · 12-17-2007, 06:42 PM

I notice a trend with the people bashing Herms picks, they seem to have nothing factual to base their bashing on. They use exaggerations or made up stats to make their iffy points.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-17-2007, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Messier

I notice a trend with the people bashing Herms picks, they seem to have nothing factual to base their bashing on. They use exaggerations or made up stats to make their iffy points.

Especially considering that most mock drafts had Tank & Turk BOTH going in the second round (see walterfootball.com for one example) and most people were THRILLED to see the Chiefs grab Tank with a late third round pick during draft weekend.

So many unrealistic expectations. Sheesh.

smittysbar · 12-17-2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Messier

I notice a trend with the people bashing Herms picks, they seem to have nothing factual to base their bashing on. They use exaggerations or made up stats to make their iffy points.

I am not trying to bash his picks. I like some and don't like some. Like anyone else, or any coach's picks. But I am also not going to sugar coat what we have in some of these players. For instance, I was big on Pollard, so far it is not looking real good. On the other hand he has not gotten near the playing time that Page has, so I will not give up on him yet.

smittysbar · 12-17-2007, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Especially considering that most mock drafts had Tank & Turk BOTH going in the second round (see walterfootball.com for one example) and most people were THRILLED to see the Chiefs grab Tank with a late third round pick during draft weekend.

So many unrealistic expectations. Sheesh.

I was also stoked that we were able to get him in the 3rd. I really do hope that they work out for the team and are here for a long time. I guess time will tell.

FAX · 12-17-2007, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Messier

I notice a trend with the people bashing Herms picks, they seem to have nothing factual to base their bashing on. They use exaggerations or made up stats to make their iffy points.

I think it's more of a "backlash" response, Mr. Messier. You know, in reaction to all the posts regarding what a fabulous drafter person Herm is. For a while there, one would think that Herm invented college football, the draft, and could mind-meld with 1000 players simultaneously to determine their futures.

In fact, his drafts have been okay - but not spectacular by any means.

FAX

12-17-2007, 11:14 AM
Dave Lane Space Cadet and Aczabel Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Kanab, UT, USA Casino cash: $9333275 VARSITY	Explain to me why we need to give Herm more time After seeing my worst fears come true in Herm with the Jetsification of the Chiefs (a top 5 draft pick) and the destruction of a team. I wonder in this microwave world of instant gratification how is it we cling to the notion 2 years doesn't set a trend especially giving his previous body of work. So I thought well surely 2 years must be handed out like candy in the past to any head coach and then it occurred to me to check the Chiefs history to confirm this. Chiefs Head Coaches with shortest tenures: Tom Bettis - 1977 Frank Gansz - 1987-1988 Gunther Cunningham - 1999-2000 Paul Wiggin - 1975-1977 John Mackovic - 1983-1986 Thats half of the Chiefs Head Coaches in the history of this team. 3 of them are 2 years or less. So in the present world why not cut ties with Herm. Actually excluding Herm 33% of Chiefs coaches have had a tenure of 2 years or less. And yes I know Bettis is a bad choice. Still 2 years of Herm like performance has cost coaches their jobs in the past. Dave
Posts: 40,584

12-17-2007, 06:28 PM	#82
smittysbar Right in the Lumberyard Danny Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: LaPlata, MO Casino cash: $10004942	Hali has not had a good year. Boone has not played 15 reg season games yet. Page and Pollard, though I have not gave up on them, have not been great this year either. 3rd round Kicker Medlock - worked out great. Though for some reason you think Turk and Tank have gained a lot of experience playing this year. They have not gotten to play a lot. __________________
Posts: 6,646

12-17-2007, 06:42 PM	#86
Messier MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Casino cash: $10005050	I notice a trend with the people bashing Herms picks, they seem to have nothing factual to base their bashing on. They use exaggerations or made up stats to make their iffy points.
Posts: 7,610