KC residents - How are you voting on the smoking ban in April?

[Bowser]

Let's get a definitive look on how the Planet feels about this. Poll on the way.

[ClevelandBronco]

Originally Posted by Micjones

I'm for banning smoking in public places.

I hate the way it makes my clothes smell.
Though that isn't my only reason.

Thanks for adding depth to the discussion.

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco

Thanks for adding depth to the discussion.

I didn't know I needed to.
The poll, after all, asked simply how I would vote.

But I guess I was supposed to participate in the endless circlejerk?

No thanks.

[penchief]

Originally Posted by Mr Flopnuts

That's rich that you have the gall to call someone a pussy for NOT going outside to smoke. You ****ing pussy, suck in that 2nd hand smoke. You don't like it. Leave. How could you possibly contribute to the pussification of American then think for one single soliatry second that it's everyone else that has the vulva? You really are a dipshit.

No, you sound like an arrogant dick. I accept that people have choices. And until the bars and restaurants banned smoking INSIDE their establishments, I stayed away. I didn't complain. I just let my wallet do my talking.

BUT, since we are not only talking about bars but also restaurants, public housing, and jobs; who are you to tell those who don't have the means to move somewhere more upscale or get a new job, that they have no choice but to expose themselves or their children to deadly poisons because it is YOUR FUCHING RIGHT to expose them?

I understand exactly the point that you are trying to make. And I don't necessarily disagree 100%. I'm flexible. Balance and pragmatism is always the key. But I will say that you are someone that I would never entrust with my valuables because you are not only arrogant but you seem inflexible and incapable of understanding the point of view of those who may not have the same freedom of choice that you seem so proud of.

[ClevelandBronco]

Originally Posted by Micjones

I didn't know I needed to.
The poll, after all, asked simply how I would vote.

But I guess I was supposed to participate in the endless circlejerk?

No thanks.

It's cool. Vote and shut up.

[Spott]

Originally Posted by Simplex3

Ah-hahahahahahaha...

Oh, wait, you weren't joking?

Give me a break. You and I can go downtown some day and we'll pick smokers at random and follow them. If their butt winds up in an approved container, you give me $100. If it doesn't, I'll give you $100. Either of us can quit at any time.

I have yet to see a smoker use a trashcan for their cigarette butts. What's even more reeruned is the idiots that flick their butts out the window of their car when their is an ashtray right in front of them.

[ClevelandBronco]

Originally Posted by penchief

public housing

Do you include apartment buildings in your definition of "public housing?" How about privately owned condos?

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by penchief

No, you sound like an arrogant dick. I accept that people have choices. And until the bars and restaurants banned smoking INSIDE their establishments, I stayed away. I didn't complain. I just let my wallet do my talking.

BUT, since we are not only talking about bars but also restaurants, public housing, and jobs; who are you to tell those who don't have the means to move somewhere more upscale or get a new job, that they have no choice but to expose themselves or their children to deadly poisons because it is YOUR FUCHING RIGHT to expose them?

I understand exactly the point that you are trying to make. And I don't necessarily disagree 100%. I'm flexible. Balance and pragmatism is always the key. But I will say that you are someone that I would never entrust with my valuables because you are not only arrogant but you seem inflexible and incapable of understanding the point of view of those who may not have the same freedom of choice that you seem so proud of.

Then you have entirely missed the point I have tried to make repeatedly. This is not about me or any other smoker. This is about business and property owners that should not have to deal with government interference over completely legal activities. Ban smoking, not where it's performed. Otherwise sit the **** down, and shut the **** up. Smoking bans are downright UNAMERICAN.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by Micjones

I'm for banning smoking in public places.

I hate the way it makes my clothes smell.
Though that isn't my only reason.

As someone who has first hand experience with oppression, I'm shocked that you would advocate it because you didn't like the way your clothes smelled.

[penchief]

Originally Posted by Spott

I have yet to see a smoker use a trashcan for their cigarette butts. What's even more reeruned is the idiots that flick their butts out the window of their car when their is an ashtray right in front of them.

Don't even get me started on that shit. I think smokers are generally arrogant. I realize how much of a generalization that is and that it doesn't apply to everyone but my opinions have been based on my observations. And, for the most part, people who smoke don't respect littering laws, either. They must think that God put someone on this planet to specifically follow after them to clean up their nastiness.

Considering the public nature of smoking, which can be very unsanitary in situations where young children are involved (such as housing complexes, etc.), I think anyone who smokes and believes that everyone else should be forced to breathe their nastiness and clean up their nastiness is an arrogant ****.

JMO.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by Spott

I have yet to see a smoker use a trashcan for their cigarette butts. What's even more reeruned is the idiots that flick their butts out the window of their car when their is an ashtray right in front of them.

My arguments have been entirely related to property and business owners. NOW, FOR THE FIRST TIME, I'll give you my own personal insight into this. I NEVER, and I mean NEVER threw cigerette butts out the window. Until they upped the tax per pack to around $2 a pack here in WA state. Now, I never use an ashtray, I throw them everywhere. $2 a pack to me equals a disposal fee. Bad attitude? Bet your ass.

[penchief]

Originally Posted by Mr Flopnuts

Then you have entirely missed the point I have tried to make repeatedly. This is not about me or any other smoker. This is about business and property owners that should not have to deal with government interference over completely legal activities. Ban smoking, not where it's performed. Otherwise sit the **** down, and shut the **** up. Smoking bans are downright UNAMERICAN.

Do you believe that owning a driver's liscence comes with a responsibility?

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by penchief

Do you believe that owning a driver's liscence comes with a responsibility?

Yeah. Do you reeeeeeally believe that there are no options for non smoking in a town without an outright ban? Who's arrogant? Someone who is for freedom of choice? Or someone who believes that EVERYONE should live according to what YOU want? You are the one that sounds arrogant. JMO.

[penchief]

Originally Posted by Mr Flopnuts

Yeah. Do you reeeeeeally believe that there are no options for non smoking in a town without an outright ban? Who's arrogant? Someone who is for freedom of choice? Or someone who believes that EVERYONE should live according to what YOU want? You are the one that sounds arrogant. JMO.

Would you rather have smoking banned the way pot is banned? Because the only difference is that there is a tobacco lobby. What people do in the privacy of their own home is their own business. When people expose others to the consequences of their own conduct, then it becomes other peoples' business, too.

I don't know how much more fundamental I can state my case. It comes down to the basic concept of "do no harm." That's what freedom is. You are free to do as you please as long as you acknowledge your responsibility to do no harm to others.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by penchief

Would you rather have smoking banned the way pot is banned? Because the only difference is that there is a tobacco lobby. What people do in the privacy of their own home is their own business. When people expose others to the consequences of their own conduct, then it becomes other peoples' business, too.

I don't know how much more fundamental I can state my case. It comes down to the basic concept of "do no harm." That's what freedom is. You are free to do as you please as long as you acknowledge your responsibility to do no harm to others.

Where does the responsiblity lie with individuals? If you BELIEVE that smoke cause great harm, is it not your responsibility to stay healthy by avoiding places that allow it? If that's the basis of your argument, then you should be willing to ban alcohol in its entirety because some people will kill others through reckless actions under the influence. If it applies to 1, it applies to all, otherwise it's selfish action. If it's selfish action, just say so. A lot of people will think you're unamerican, but will at least respect that you're honest.

As far tobacco being banned like other drugs, I wouldn't like it. I'd deal with it though. I could justify it a whole helluva lot more than telling some poor business man that it's illegal to allow a legal activity in his place of business. Re read that last sentence. It doesn't make a lick of sense. It's not hard to see.

[RJ]

Originally Posted by Mr Flopnuts

My arguments have been entirely related to property and business owners. NOW, FOR THE FIRST TIME, I'll give you my own personal insight into this. I NEVER, and I mean NEVER threw cigerette butts out the window. Until they upped the tax per pack to around $2 a pack here in WA state. Now, I never use an ashtray, I throw them everywhere. $2 a pack to me equals a disposal fee. Bad attitude? Bet your ass.

Wow, why the f*** would you do that?