Lou Reed Hates MP3s

[Baby Lee]

First off

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Hate to break this to you, buddy, but what I said was 100% correct, and you pretty much backed up everything I said.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Self professed "audio-philes" were participants in a double blind test that tested high quality oxygen-free cable against 12 gauge lamp cord, and none of them could tell a difference.

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

2. The differences between exotic cables and plain ol' lamp cord is pretty much debunked, but there's no one 'gotcha' definitive double blind test to which to refer. And actually there is evidence of some differences with some cables, but whether those changes are better, worse, cleaner, dirtier, more colored, or more 'true.' is up for debate.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

2. The "Monster" myth has been debunked, and you agree as much, then you don't, then you do. Which personality is it?

For the record, from a self-professed audiophile:

Perhaps, someday, Ken Kessler and several other audio perverts will condescend to take a controlled listening test. Several offers have been made for anyone who can correctly identify a particular kind of wire under controlled conditions. Challenges offering $15,000 or more have not even been tried by these “experts,” Ken could be a rich man if he could consistently identify differences in house wiring with controlled tests. I would encourage him to prove his abilities for the readers of Audio magazine who deserve the truth.

Second despite your first post was how people who like good reproduction of music are such ****ing jokes that crack you up so ****ing much. And despite youir second post that alternatively characterize me as a wife beater wearing redneck and an effete snob, I'll apologize if you took offense at the tone of my post.

Honestly, I didn't even notice that this was a 'Hamas Jenkins' post until I was halfway through my response. Then my thought was '****, this guy's gonna turn into some imagined, fever-dream, personal yuppy/hippy battle for the soul of eternity. Thanks for proving me wrong.

But your were wrong that 'self-professed audiophiles were participants' in any kind of definitive test. The very point is that 'they' won't take the test. For the most part, sure cables that meet a certain floor standard are fungible, and sure most of those qualities touted for exotic cables are bunkum.

And I addressed normalization and SACD/DVD-A because you remarked how crowing about 'digitization' cracks you up, which leaves a good deal of ambiguity. My point was that audiophiles don't 'crow' about GOOD digitization, be it high fidelity/high bitrate mastering like DSD underlying SACD, or non-normalized/non-compressed mastering by the studio.

I know you like to think of an audiophile as some hipster douchebag who doesn't know what he's listening to, but loves telling his hipster douchebag friends how expensive it was and why. But the sizeable contingent are simply music lovers, who patiently assemble a system with an eye and ear towards quality.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

First off





Second despite your first post was how people who like good reproduction of music are such ****ing jokes that crack you up so ****ing much. And despite youir second post that alternatively characterize me as a wife beater wearing redneck and an effete snob, I'll apologize if you took offense at the tone of my post.

Honestly, I didn't even notice that this was a 'Hamas Jenkins' post until I was halfway through my response. Then my thought was '****, this guy's gonna turn into some imagined, fever-dream, personal yuppy/hippy battle for the soul of eternity. Thanks for proving me wrong.

But your were wrong that 'self-professed audiophiles were participants' in any kind of definitive test. The very point is that 'they' won't take the test. For the most part, sure cables that meet a certain floor standard are fungible, and sure most of those qualities touted for exotic cables are bunkum.

And I addressed normalization and SACD/DVD-A because you remarked how crowing about 'digitization' cracks you up, which leaves a good deal of ambiguity. My point was that audiophiles don't 'crow' about GOOD digitization, be it high fidelity/high bitrate mastering like DSD underlying SACD, or non-normalized/non-compressed mastering by the studio.

I know you like to think of an audiophile as some hipster douchebag who doesn't know what he's listening to, but loves telling his hipster douchebag friends how expensive it was and why. But the sizeable contingent are simply music lovers, who patiently assemble a system with an eye and ear towards quality.

Oh really?

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/03/au..._hanger-2.html

Whether or not Monster Cables are worth it is a war that has raged since home theatre immemorial. A poster at Audioholics was put in a room with five fellow audiophiles, and a Martin Logan SL-3 speaker set at 75Db at 1000KHz playing a mix of "smooth, trio, easy listening jazz" that no one had heard before. In one corner, Monster 1000 speaker cables. In the other, four coat hangers twisted and soldered into a speaker cable.


Seven songs were played while the group was blindfolded and the cables swapped back and forth. Not only "after 5 tests, none could determine which was the Monster 1000 cable or the coat hanger wire," but no one knew a coat hanger was used in the first place.

Further, when music was played through the coat hanger wire, we were asked if what we heard sounded good to us. All agreed that what was heard sounded excellent, however, when A-B tests occured, it was impossible to determine which sounded best the majority of the time and which wire was in use.

It's possible these guys weren't super-hardcore audiophiles that might not be able to tell the difference, but it largely goes with what we've found in our own tests of Monster Cable: The lower end can perform just as well, though we don't really recommend re-wiring your home theatre after a firesale on wire hangers

[Baby Lee]

That's the whole point of that particular argument

=Hamas]Self professed "audio-philes" were participants in a double blind test

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

It's possible these guys weren't super-hardcore audiophiles

Listen, I'm on the 'an interconnect is an interconnect' bandwagon, but I do recognize that there are some qualities to some wires that can color what's reproduced. Whether that's good or bad, better or worse is a matter of taste.
My main point was your seeming derision of anyone who thinks there's better content out there than an MP3, or any way of making things sound better than a boombox.
MP3s are missing information that CDs possess and generally lose sound quality, be it to compression or bitrate.
CDs are 44.1 kHz, which while a decent bitrate is still a sampling of the true music. There are some high quality DACs that turn that information into a very smooth reproduction, some even approach good analog playback, but for the most part quality crafted SACDs/DVD-As and vinyl gives an objectively better experience.
And it's not just about hearing some absurdly high frequency, it's about closer approximation of the actual linear analog sound produced live.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

That's the whole point of that particular argument


Listen, I'm on the 'an interconnect is an interconnect' bandwagon, but I do recognize that there are some qualities to some wires that can color what's reproduced. Whether that's good or bad, better or worse is a matter of taste.
My main point was your seeming derision of anyone who thinks there's better content out there than an MP3, or any way of making things sound better than a boombox.
MP3s are missing information that CDs possess and generally lose sound quality, be it to compression or bitrate.
CDs are 44.1 kHz, which while a decent bitrate is still a sampling of the true music. There are some high quality DACs that turn that information into a very smooth reproduction, some even approach good analog playback, but for the most part quality crafted SACDs/DVD-As and vinyl gives an objectively better experience.
And it's not just about hearing some absurdly high frequency, it's about closer approximation of the actual linear analog sound produced live.

I understand that to an extent, and yes information is left out, but it's not perceptible to the human ear. I believe psychoacoustics > someone's desire to hear something. There are shitty MP3's out there, but a 192 or 256K MP3 file, let alone FLAC is imperceptibly compared to a CD. MP3s cut out the stuff we can't hear to reduce file size, and FLAC does an even better job with said compression, which is why it is lossless.

Did you read that .pdf, because it basically rebuts your entire argument, whether it be the superiority of vinyl or what is and is not left out of MP3.

Granted we are going to have to agree to disagree, because you are invested in your stance and it's quite obvious that nothing will budge you from it.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Did you read that .pdf, because it basically rebuts your entire argument, whether it be the superiority of vinyl or what is and is not left out of MP3.

I'll never sped the jack to build a classic album collection but I'll always believe the sound of vinyl is unbeatable. There's just something about hearing the scratch of the needle hitting the record and the small imperfections...