What the Hell is a "System QB" and why is it bad to be one? - Page 3

Amnorix · 03-19-2008, 08:00 AM

I just saw this in another thread (Ryan's Pro Day workout at BC) and it brought to mind why this phrase gets tossed around all the time as some kind of insult. As I understand it, "He's just a system QB" is generally thrown out there to say that a QB looks better than he really is, presumably because the "system" that he is in MAKES him look better. In other words, it's not the QB that is good/great, it's the system.

This entire concept makes NO sense to me. EVERY QB, especially in the NFL, plays in a fantastically complicated offensive "system" that is DESIGNED to make him look good. Coaches and players spend hundreds of hours every week (combined) analyzing weaknesses in the opposing defense and trying to adapt their "system" and plays to take advantage of the weaknesses.

The only way this makes any sense is to suggest that a system QB isn't as good as a "non-system" QB in the sense that when the play breaks down, the QB can't improvise. In other words, he's not a Favre or Elway.

The severe problem with this statement is that there are very, very few Favre's or Elways. If by "system QB" you mean that he's not a highly athletic runner who also has a shotgun, accurate arm and is one of the top 10 QBs in history, then that's no insult at all. It applies to 99.9% of the quarterbacks in NFL history.

I note, also, that if this is what you mean by "system QB", then Marino, Brady, Manning, Fouts, and god-knows how many other awesome QBs who couldn't run well are also "just system QBs" and therefore subject to insult.

I don't get it. Am I missing something?

I honestly would like to see this phrase disappear from NFL-fan lexicon. It's worthless as a statement.

Reerun_KC · 03-19-2008, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefGator

Either way, we should definitely never draft system qb's until we get an actual system.

Can He hand off consistently?

IF so he is the man for the job...

Rooster · 03-19-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Can He hand off consistently?

IF so he is the man for the job...

Herm needs a QB that can hand off and punt.

DTLB58 · 03-19-2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

David Klinger, Andre Ware, etc. were system quarterbacks. That is why they couldn't cut it in the NFL. You could have put Montana in any system and he would have looked good, because he was good.

Yes he was good. But how good would have depended on which system and the talent and coaches around him. Hence, his time in KC.

JakeT · 03-19-2008, 01:36 PM

nfl system qb = Steve Bono

NaptownChief · 03-19-2008, 01:55 PM

One of my other favorite media topics to yammer about is "so tough to follow a legend..."

They always talk about how tough it is to follow a legend but I largely call BS. Yes there is some higher expectations of play because the fans have just gone through a period of seeing high level of play at that position from a legend. But let me ask you this.....Of all these QB's that failed following a legend, how many of them moved on and really shined? I can't think of any. They failed because they sucked not because they followed a legend. Steve Young followed one of the biggest legends and he succeeded because he was good.

If several QB's that followed legends struggled following the legend but then moved on and really did well then that would help make that argument but the reason most of them struggle is because the team had a legend at the QB position and didn't bother investing a high pick or a lot of free agent money on the position. So they usually have very average to below average QB's as backups that then get pushed into the position upon the departure of the legend.

Amnorix · 03-19-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Flopnuts

Amnorix, everyone knows that Matt Ryan is wicked awesome. Now clean that sand out of your gina.

Actually, it's when it's applied to Tom Brady that it really irritates me. I honestly don't care THAT much about BC or Ryan. I'm a casual fan of BC footbal. I didn't go there, but they're the only 1-A program in New England.

But, honestly, I'm a tightass when it comes to langauge, and thsi "system QB" stuff is stupid because (as this thread clearly shows) nobody really agrees on what it means, or to whom it should be applied. The only definition I've seen that makes any sense is when it's applied to a college QB in a wide-open system, which results in stat pumping, and yet I've seen the label slapped on MANY NFL QBs, which makes no sense at all.

I honestly think it's just a stupid term.

**mlyonsd** · 03-19-2008, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

...Coaches and players spend hundreds of hours every week (combined) analyzing weaknesses in the opposing defense and trying to adapt their "system" and plays to take advantage of the weaknesses.

Somebody should make Herm aware of this.

Taco John · 03-19-2008, 02:33 PM

A system QB is a guy with no intangibles. If the system breaks down, he is worthless. The offense is only as good as he is, and he is only as good as the weakest link in the system.

Brian Griese is a good example of a system QB.

vailpass · 03-19-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

A system QB is a guy with no intangibles. If the system breaks down, he is worthless. The offense is only as good as he is, and he is only as good as the weakest link in the system.

Brian Griese is a good example of a system QB.

Your point is well taken but is there any way you could avoid mentioning that name again?

Valiant · 03-19-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eazyb81

I've always defined system QBs as guys who put up ridiculous stats in a wide-open, pass-happy system but are easily replaceable by other guys that can put up the same stats. Thus, they get undeserved hype based on their stats, and most of the time they underperform in an NFL pro offense.

System QBs that come to mind right now are Hawaii QBs (Colt Brennan, Timmy Chang), Tedford QBs (Kyle Boller, Aaron Rodgers, Joey Harrington, Akili Smith), and Spurrier QBs (Rex Grossman, Danny Wuerffel).

If thats the case.. EVERY QB that is surrounded with a Great Line or Great WR's is a system QB in the NFL.. (system QB's can be great, but they are still in a system to make them look that way..)

I agree on the college level of system QB's, kind of like MU now..

Amnorix · 03-19-2008, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

A system QB is a guy with no intangibles. If the system breaks down, he is worthless. The offense is only as good as he is, and he is only as good as the weakest link in the system.

Brian Griese is a good example of a system QB.

Makes no sense to me. What intangibles are you talking about other than being fleet of foot? And being fleet of foot is quite TANGIBLE in my mind.

What intangible is there? Improvisional ability? WTF is that?

**Tribal Warfare** · 03-19-2008, 03:03 PM

System's QB has to be put in the right situation right offense, and sufficient talent. For anyone to be considered a top 5 QB they'd have to an all-round stud with no weakness what so ever I mean he has to have accuracy, a strong arm, leadership intangibles, ability to run and scramble like an RB ect.. Someone who can take a team on their back to the SB on their sheer talent alone like John Elway.

Amnorix · 03-19-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valiant

If thats the case.. EVERY QB that is surrounded with a Great Line or Great WR's is a system QB in the NFL.. (system QB's can be great, but they are still in a system to make them look that way..)

I agree on the college level of system QB's, kind of like MU now..

IMHO there's no such thing as a "system QB" in the NFL. It's a meaningless phrase. Without a good system, no QB in the NFL is any good.

Amnorix · 03-19-2008, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

System's QB has to be put in the right situation right offense, and sufficient talent. For anyone to be considered a top 5 QB they'd have to an all-round stud with no weakness what so ever I mean he has to have accuracy, a strong arm, leadership intangibles, ability to run and scramble like an RB ect.. Someone who can take a team on their back to the SB on their sheer talent alone like John Elway.

This also makes no sense. What doess "System QB" have to do with being a top 5 QB? If you're not a top 5 QB all-time you're automatically a "system QB"?

**Tribal Warfare** · 03-19-2008, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

This also makes no sense. What doess "System QB" have to do with being a top 5 QB? If you're not a top 5 QB all-time you're automatically a "system QB"?

Look at the top 5 of all-time the onl yone that wasn't in the right situation and that was John Elway that man had shit around him including coaches for most of his career that man literally took his teams on his back to the SB when he was young.

03-19-2008, 08:00 AM
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	What the Hell is a "System QB" and why is it bad to be one? I just saw this in another thread (Ryan's Pro Day workout at BC) and it brought to mind why this phrase gets tossed around all the time as some kind of insult. As I understand it, "He's just a system QB" is generally thrown out there to say that a QB looks better than he really is, presumably because the "system" that he is in MAKES him look better. In other words, it's not the QB that is good/great, it's the system. This entire concept makes NO sense to me. EVERY QB, especially in the NFL, plays in a fantastically complicated offensive "system" that is DESIGNED to make him look good. Coaches and players spend hundreds of hours every week (combined) analyzing weaknesses in the opposing defense and trying to adapt their "system" and plays to take advantage of the weaknesses. The only way this makes any sense is to suggest that a system QB isn't as good as a "non-system" QB in the sense that when the play breaks down, the QB can't improvise. In other words, he's not a Favre or Elway. The severe problem with this statement is that there are very, very few Favre's or Elways. If by "system QB" you mean that he's not a highly athletic runner who also has a shotgun, accurate arm and is one of the top 10 QBs in history, then that's no insult at all. It applies to 99.9% of the quarterbacks in NFL history. I note, also, that if this is what you mean by "system QB", then Marino, Brady, Manning, Fouts, and god-knows how many other awesome QBs who couldn't run well are also "just system QBs" and therefore subject to insult. I don't get it. Am I missing something? I honestly would like to see this phrase disappear from NFL-fan lexicon. It's worthless as a statement.
Posts: 43,125

03-19-2008, 01:36 PM	#34
JakeT Blue your my boy blue Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $9774900	nfl system qb = Steve Bono
Posts: 154

03-19-2008, 01:55 PM	#35
NaptownChief Football Pimp Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Indianapolis,IN Casino cash: $9974900	One of my other favorite media topics to yammer about is "so tough to follow a legend..." They always talk about how tough it is to follow a legend but I largely call BS. Yes there is some higher expectations of play because the fans have just gone through a period of seeing high level of play at that position from a legend. But let me ask you this.....Of all these QB's that failed following a legend, how many of them moved on and really shined? I can't think of any. They failed because they sucked not because they followed a legend. Steve Young followed one of the biggest legends and he succeeded because he was good. If several QB's that followed legends struggled following the legend but then moved on and really did well then that would help make that argument but the reason most of them struggle is because the team had a legend at the QB position and didn't bother investing a high pick or a lot of free agent money on the position. So they usually have very average to below average QB's as backups that then get pushed into the position upon the departure of the legend. __________________ "We weren't worth a damn," the Kansas City Chiefs head coach said, shaking his head. "I'm not worth a damn. No one's worth a damn..." Former President of the Eric Downing Fan Club and Current President of the Kris"Secret Weapon"Wilson Fan Club
Posts: 4,357

03-19-2008, 02:33 PM	#38
Taco John Sapere Aude Join Date: Jun 2001 Casino cash: $427937	A system QB is a guy with no intangibles. If the system breaks down, he is worthless. The offense is only as good as he is, and he is only as good as the weakest link in the system. Brian Griese is a good example of a system QB. __________________ Ehyeh asher ehyeh. Donger's Razor: "The most establishment-friendly explanation that gives leftist and neocon politicians the most amount of cover is the only possible explanation, even when gaping holes and leaps of logic are required to get there."
Posts: 79,768

03-19-2008, 03:03 PM	#42
Tribal Warfare Man of Culture Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $-3037187	System's QB has to be put in the right situation right offense, and sufficient talent. For anyone to be considered a top 5 QB they'd have to an all-round stud with no weakness what so ever I mean he has to have accuracy, a strong arm, leadership intangibles, ability to run and scramble like an RB ect.. Someone who can take a team on their back to the SB on their sheer talent alone like John Elway. __________________
Posts: 43,455