Home Discord Chat
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > Nzoner's Game Room
Reload this Page What the Hell is a "System QB" and why is it bad to be one?
Register FAQDonate Members List Calendar

Reply
Page 4 of 8 123 4 5678
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-19-2008, 08:00 AM  
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
In BB I trust
 
Amnorix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Boston, Mass.
Casino cash: $10029808
What the Hell is a "System QB" and why is it bad to be one?
I just saw this in another thread (Ryan's Pro Day workout at BC) and it brought to mind why this phrase gets tossed around all the time as some kind of insult. As I understand it, "He's just a system QB" is generally thrown out there to say that a QB looks better than he really is, presumably because the "system" that he is in MAKES him look better. In other words, it's not the QB that is good/great, it's the system.

This entire concept makes NO sense to me. EVERY QB, especially in the NFL, plays in a fantastically complicated offensive "system" that is DESIGNED to make him look good. Coaches and players spend hundreds of hours every week (combined) analyzing weaknesses in the opposing defense and trying to adapt their "system" and plays to take advantage of the weaknesses.

The only way this makes any sense is to suggest that a system QB isn't as good as a "non-system" QB in the sense that when the play breaks down, the QB can't improvise. In other words, he's not a Favre or Elway.

The severe problem with this statement is that there are very, very few Favre's or Elways. If by "system QB" you mean that he's not a highly athletic runner who also has a shotgun, accurate arm and is one of the top 10 QBs in history, then that's no insult at all. It applies to 99.9% of the quarterbacks in NFL history.

I note, also, that if this is what you mean by "system QB", then Marino, Brady, Manning, Fouts, and god-knows how many other awesome QBs who couldn't run well are also "just system QBs" and therefore subject to insult.

I don't get it. Am I missing something?

I honestly would like to see this phrase disappear from NFL-fan lexicon. It's worthless as a statement.
Posts: 43,125
Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.
     Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 03:09 PM   #46
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
In BB I trust
 
Amnorix's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Boston, Mass.
Casino cash: $10029808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare View Post
Look at the top 5 of all-time the onlyone that wasn't in the right situation was John Elway that man had shit around him including coaches for most of his career that man literally took his teams on his back to the SB when he was young.
So....in your mind a System QB is any QB not named what -- Montana, Elway, Unitas, Favre, Marino and Manning (or Brady), or some combination like that.

What's the point of having a specific phrase that means "not among the top 5 NFL QBs in history"?

And, to push it further -- in your mind Michael Vick was a "system QB" I guess.

I don't get it.
__________________
"I love signature blocks on the Internet. I get to put whatever the hell I want in quotes, pick a pretend author, and bang, it's like he really said it." George Washington
Posts: 43,125
Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.Amnorix is obviously part of the inner Circle.
     Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 03:13 PM   #47
Tribal Warfare Tribal Warfare is offline
Man of Culture
 
Tribal Warfare's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Far Beyond Comprehension
Casino cash: $-3037187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
.

I don't get it.


Precisely, 98% being successful in the NFL is being in right situation at the right time, and John Elway for top 5 picks concerning talent is the benchmark and anything less is asking for trouble.
__________________
Posts: 43,455
Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.
     Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 06:04 PM   #48
alanm alanm is offline
Feeling Victorian
 
alanm's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Nebraska/Wyoming/Colorado
Casino cash: $-113564
Quote:
Originally Posted by eazyb81 View Post
I've always defined system QBs as guys who put up ridiculous stats in a wide-open, pass-happy system but are easily replaceable by other guys that can put up the same stats. Thus, they get undeserved hype based on their stats, and most of the time they underperform in an NFL pro offense.

System QBs that come to mind right now are Hawaii QBs (Colt Brennan, Timmy Chang), Tedford QBs (Kyle Boller, Aaron Rodgers, Joey Harrington, Akili Smith), and Spurrier QBs (Rex Grossman, Danny Wuerffel).
You may also add any QB who's played at Texas Tech.
__________________
It bears repeating, **** Herm, Pioli, Haley, and Crennel for ****ing up my franchise for a goddamn decade.
Buehler 445
Posts: 33,983
alanm is obviously part of the inner Circle.alanm is obviously part of the inner Circle.alanm is obviously part of the inner Circle.alanm is obviously part of the inner Circle.alanm is obviously part of the inner Circle.alanm is obviously part of the inner Circle.alanm is obviously part of the inner Circle.alanm is obviously part of the inner Circle.alanm is obviously part of the inner Circle.alanm is obviously part of the inner Circle.alanm is obviously part of the inner Circle.
     Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 06:13 PM   #49
the Talking Can the Talking Can is offline
Supporter
 
the Talking Can's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: street
Casino cash: $9122208
Brock is on target.

People use "system QB" to mean that a QB's talent can only be exploited by one particular system.

Great QBs can generally be imagined to succeed in any system, or when systems break down.

And anyone who thinks that Montana could only thrive in a west coast system....well, ditto brock again: "horse shit"

that's as dumb as gochiefs claiming that Chris Carter couldn't separate from CBs....
__________________
Clark Hunt: "Thank god for the Dominican pool boy"
Posts: 51,585
the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.
     Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 06:30 PM   #50
Tribal Warfare Tribal Warfare is offline
Man of Culture
 
Tribal Warfare's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Far Beyond Comprehension
Casino cash: $-3037187
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Talking Can View Post
Brock is on target.

People use "system QB" to mean that a QB's talent can only be exploited by one particular system.

Great QBs can generally be imagined to succeed in any system, or when systems break down.

And anyone who thinks that Montana could only thrive in a west coast system....well, ditto brock again: "horse shit"

that's as dumb as gochiefs claiming that Chris Carter couldn't separate from CBs....
back to the point of the arguement unless one is talking about an all-world talent like John Elway which it doesn't matter what situation he's in then I'd pass on the guy who has to be in the right situation and right system. Ryan can be good, but he'll need help
__________________
Posts: 43,455
Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.Tribal Warfare is obviously part of the inner Circle.
     Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 06:33 PM   #51
vailpass vailpass is offline
Psycho Bag Of Squanch
 
vailpass's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2001
Casino cash: $9594244
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Talking Can View Post
Brock is on target.

People use "system QB" to mean that a QB's talent can only be exploited by one particular system.

Great QBs can generally be imagined to succeed in any system, or when systems break down.

And anyone who thinks that Montana could only thrive in a west coast system....well, ditto brock again: "horse shit"

that's as dumb as gochiefs claiming that Chris Carter couldn't separate from CBs....
So you feel that Montana would have taken the same Denver teams to the SB that Elway did?
__________________
“Education is a weapon whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.”
Joseph Stalin
Posts: 69,591
vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.
     Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 06:46 PM   #52
the Talking Can the Talking Can is offline
Supporter
 
the Talking Can's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: street
Casino cash: $9122208
Quote:
Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
So you feel that Montana would have taken the same Denver teams to the SB that Elway did?
yes, Montana would have still been a great QB if he played for Shanahan instead of Walsh...

anyone who doesn't think so is embarrassingly dumb...
__________________
Clark Hunt: "Thank god for the Dominican pool boy"
Posts: 51,585
the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.the Talking Can is obviously part of the inner Circle.
     Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 06:49 PM   #53
Mr. Laz Mr. Laz is offline
Don't Tease Me
 
Mr. Laz's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: KS
Casino cash: $11047037
Quote:
Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
So you feel that Montana would have taken the same Denver teams to the SB that Elway did?
no .... but they wouldn't of built the team the same if it was montana instead of Elway.


just like most other nfl players need to be used in schemes that fit their talents.
__________________
Posts: 95,626
Mr. Laz is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Laz is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Laz is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Laz is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Laz is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Laz is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Laz is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Laz is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Laz is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Laz is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Laz is obviously part of the inner Circle.
     Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 06:55 PM   #54
Iowanian Iowanian is offline
Supporter
 
Iowanian's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Utopia
Casino cash: $1658454
Kliff Kingsberry put up huge numbers in Texas Tech's System....couldn't hack it.

Spread the defense out with 4-5 quick wrs and throw slants and fly patterns.....big numbers, but they often can't make the nfl throws.....the 15 yard outs across the field etc.
Posts: 62,945
Iowanian is obviously part of the inner Circle.Iowanian is obviously part of the inner Circle.Iowanian is obviously part of the inner Circle.Iowanian is obviously part of the inner Circle.Iowanian is obviously part of the inner Circle.Iowanian is obviously part of the inner Circle.Iowanian is obviously part of the inner Circle.Iowanian is obviously part of the inner Circle.Iowanian is obviously part of the inner Circle.Iowanian is obviously part of the inner Circle.Iowanian is obviously part of the inner Circle.
     Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 07:02 PM   #55
beach tribe beach tribe is offline
Keep doubting J MFing Houston
 
beach tribe's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2007
Location: ft.lauderdale
Casino cash: $3878036
Quote:
Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
So you feel that Montana would have taken the same Denver teams to the SB that Elway did?
Probably would have won more.
Posts: 21,429
beach tribe is obviously part of the inner Circle.beach tribe is obviously part of the inner Circle.beach tribe is obviously part of the inner Circle.beach tribe is obviously part of the inner Circle.beach tribe is obviously part of the inner Circle.beach tribe is obviously part of the inner Circle.beach tribe is obviously part of the inner Circle.beach tribe is obviously part of the inner Circle.beach tribe is obviously part of the inner Circle.beach tribe is obviously part of the inner Circle.beach tribe is obviously part of the inner Circle.
     Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 07:31 PM   #56
Bearcat Bearcat is offline
Would an idiot do that?
 
Bearcat's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Arizona
Casino cash: $-1115069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
IMHO there's no such thing as a "system QB" in the NFL. It's a meaningless phrase. Without a good system, no QB in the NFL is any good.
I don't think of a system QB as worthless outside of a system, like others... I think of it when looking at stats and wondering "is this guy that good or could anyone throw for 4000 yards in that offense?"

I think it's possible to have a system QB in the NFL, it's just that the systems are so close to being the same, NFL teams don't waste the time on them unless they are a Vick-like athlete or they're desperate.

Enter Kurt Warner (uh, the desperate part). He would have been a backup for a while and mediocre at best in the NFL if the Rams weren't desperate and he didn't happen to step into Martz's system. It wasn't the quarterback, it was the system. Anyone can throw for 4000 yards in the system, and Kurt Warner hasn't done a whole lot outside of it.
Posts: 59,638
Bearcat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bearcat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bearcat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bearcat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bearcat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bearcat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bearcat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bearcat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bearcat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bearcat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bearcat is obviously part of the inner Circle.
     Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 07:38 PM   #57
KCTitus KCTitus is offline
Archivist
 
KCTitus's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Ethernet
Casino cash: $9882732
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Talking Can View Post
Brock is on target.

People use "system QB" to mean that a QB's talent can only be exploited by one particular system.

Great QBs can generally be imagined to succeed in any system, or when systems break down.

And anyone who thinks that Montana could only thrive in a west coast system....well, ditto brock again: "horse shit"

that's as dumb as gochiefs claiming that Chris Carter couldn't separate from CBs....
I would agree somewhat...Montana succeeded with the Chiefs despite Marty. That's the sign of a great QB.

Green was always said to be a system QB...not so great with Wash, but good with KC. A system could also be a QB behind a great line and helped by a super RB.
__________________
Anything you post on this BB can and will be used against you...
Posts: 26,199
KCTitus is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.KCTitus is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.KCTitus is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.KCTitus is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.KCTitus is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.KCTitus is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.KCTitus is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.KCTitus is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.KCTitus is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.KCTitus is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.KCTitus is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
     Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 08:40 PM   #58
vailpass vailpass is offline
Psycho Bag Of Squanch
 
vailpass's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2001
Casino cash: $9594244
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach tribe View Post
Probably would have won more.

Stop dude,you're killing me. Little Joe wouldn't have lasted 2 seasons.
You either have no idea what the Elway years pre-Shanny looked like or are just being silly.
__________________
“Education is a weapon whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.”
Joseph Stalin
Posts: 69,591
vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.
     Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 08:41 PM   #59
vailpass vailpass is offline
Psycho Bag Of Squanch
 
vailpass's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2001
Casino cash: $9594244
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Talking Can View Post
yes, Montana would have still been a great QB if he played for Shanahan instead of Walsh...

anyone who doesn't think so is embarrassingly dumb...
I wasn't talking about the Shanny teams. Are you familiar with the teams Elway carried to the SB pre-Shanny?
__________________
“Education is a weapon whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.”
Joseph Stalin
Posts: 69,591
vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.vailpass is obviously part of the inner Circle.
     Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 10:19 PM   #60
milkman milkman is offline
Dumbass!
 
milkman's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Leading the Marty bashing
Casino cash: $10029395
Quote:
Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
I wasn't talking about the Shanny teams. Are you familiar with the teams Elway carried to the SB pre-Shanny?
John Elway brought an unmatched ability to improvise and carried some pretty mediocre teams to the SB.

He also overcame handcuffing by Dan Reeves.

Still, Montana brought that leadership and quiet confidence.

I don't know that he could have taken the Donks to those 3 pre-rat SBs, but I wouldn't bet against him.
__________________
Posts: 70,769
milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.milkman is obviously part of the inner Circle.
     Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 4 of 8 123 4 5678

« Previous Thread | > Nzoner's Game Room < | Next Thread »

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:11 PM.

Contact Us - ChiefsPlanet - Archive - Top

This is a test for a client's site.
Fort Worth Texas Process Servers
Covering Arlington, Fort Worth, Grand Prairie and surrounding communities.
Tarrant County, Texas and Johnson County, Texas.
Advertise with us!
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.