Chiefs OK Mr. Croyle, I've defended loyally on this forum. - Page 8

Frankie · 05-13-2008, 12:23 PM

It's time for you to reward me and the the rest of your defenders. I'm looking forward to reading a piece on the Star about how you have dedicated this off-season to gaining 10-15 pounds of muscle. I hope you haven't forgotten that as a necessary step for your career and gaining respect of the fans and your teammates.

Micjones · 05-14-2008, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

No, you pick a QB and you build. Round of the draft has nothing to do with it.

Secondly:
Brady - 6th
Brees - 2nd
Romo - UDFA
Favre - 2nd
Palmer - 1st
Kitna - UDFA
Manning - 1st
Hasselback - 6th
Anderson - 6th
Cutler - 1st
Warner - UDFA
Manning - 1st
McNabb - 1st
Roethlisberger - 1st
Rivers - 1st
Campbell - 1st
Young - 1st
Garrard - 4th
Bulger - 6th
Schaub - 3rd
Harrington - 1st
Jackson - 2nd
Griese - 3rd
Lemon - UDFA
Pennington - 1st
Boller - 1st
Edwards - 3rd

Only 12 first round draft picks in this list, which is sorted by Yards. If ANYTHING, this proves that the draft is no show of what kind of QB the player will be.

AFC East
New England Patriots, Tom Brady (Sixth Round)
Buffalo Bills, Trent Edwards (Third Round)
Miami Dolphins, John Beck (Second Round)
New York Jets, Kellen Clemens (Second Round)

AFC West
Oakland Raiders, JaMarcus Russell (First Round)
Kansas City Chiefs, Brodie Croyle (Third Round)
San Diego Chargers, Philip Rivers (First Round)
Denver Broncos, Jay Cutler (First Round)

AFC North
Pittsburgh Steelers, Ben Roethlisberger (First Round)
Cincinnati Bengals, Carson Palmer (First Round)
Baltimore Ravens, Troy Smith (Fifth Round)
Cleveland Browns, Derek Anderson (Sixth Round)

AFC South
Tennessee Titans, Vince Young (First Round)
Jacksonville Jaguars, David Garrard (Fourth Round)
Indianapolis Colts, Peyton Manning (First Round)
Houston Texans, Matt Schaub (Third Round)

NFC East
New York Giants, Eli Manning (First Round)
Dallas Cowboys, Tony Romo (Undrafted)
Washington Redskins, Jason Campbell (First Round)
Philadelphia Eagles, Donovan McNabb (First Round)

NFC West
St. Louis Rams, Marc Bulger (Sixth Round)
Arizona Cardinals, Matt Leinart (First Round)
Seattle Seahawks, Matt Hasselbeck (Sixth Round)
San Francisco 49ers, Shaun Hill (Undrafted)

NFC North
Detroit Lions, Jon Kitna (Undrafted)
Chicago Bears, Kyle Orton (Undrafted)
Minnesota Vikings, Tavaris Jackson (Second Round)
Green Bay Packers, Aaron Rodgers (First Round)

NFC South
New Orleans Saints, Drew Brees (Second Round)
Carolina Panthers, Jake Delhomme (Undrafted)
Atlanta Falcons, Matt Ryan (First Round)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Jeff Garcia (Undrafted)

12 Starting QB's drafted in the First Round.
21 QB's taken in the First Round since 2000.
QB taken #1 overall in 8 of the last 10 drafts.
The last two Superbowl MVP's were First Round draft picks.
In the last decade twice as many QB's drafted than in the 10 years prior.
Just 6 of the remaining QB's (#3's or lower) on my list have had any NFL success.

beach tribe · 05-14-2008, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

AFC East
New England Patriots, Tom Brady (Sixth Round)
Buffalo Bills, Trent Edwards (Third Round)
Miami Dolphins, John Beck (Second Round)
New York Jets, Kellen Clemens (Second Round)

AFC West
Oakland Raiders, JaMarcus Russell (First Round)
Kansas City Chiefs, Brodie Croyle (Third Round)
San Diego Chargers, Philip Rivers (First Round)
Denver Broncos, Jay Cutler (First Round)

AFC North
Pittsburgh Steelers, Ben Roethlisberger (First Round)
Cincinnati Bengals, Carson Palmer (First Round)
Baltimore Ravens, Troy Smith (Fifth Round)
Cleveland Browns, Derek Anderson (Sixth Round)

AFC South
Tennessee Titans, Vince Young (First Round)
Jacksonville Jaguars, David Garrard (Fourth Round)
Indianapolis Colts, Peyton Manning (First Round)
Houston Texans, Matt Schaub (Third Round)

NFC East
New York Giants, Eli Manning (First Round)
Dallas Cowboys, Tony Romo (Undrafted)
Washington Redskins, Jason Campbell (First Round)
Philadelphia Eagles, Donovan McNabb (First Round)

NFC West
St. Louis Rams, Marc Bulger (Sixth Round)
Arizona Cardinals, Matt Leinart (First Round)
Seattle Seahawks, Matt Hasselbeck (Sixth Round)
San Francisco 49ers, Shaun Hill (Undrafted)

NFC North
Detroit Lions, Jon Kitna (Undrafted)
Chicago Bears, Kyle Orton (Undrafted)
Minnesota Vikings, Tavaris Jackson (Second Round)
Green Bay Packers, Aaron Rodgers (First Round)

NFC South
New Orleans Saints, Drew Brees (Second Round)
Carolina Panthers, Jake Delhomme (Undrafted)
Atlanta Falcons, Matt Ryan (First Round)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Jeff Garcia (Undrafted)

12 Starting QB's drafted in the First Round.
21 QB's taken in the First Round since 2000.
QB taken #1 overall in 8 of the last 10 drafts.
The last two Superbowl MVP's were First Round draft picks.
In the last decade twice as many QB's drafted than in the 10 years prior.
Just 6 of the remaining QB's (#3's or lower) on my list have had any NFL success.

Ben Roethlisberger
Peyton Manning
Philip Rivers
Eli Manning
Don McNabb

5 unquestionably good QBs (with Rivers on the border IMO) drafted in the first rnd in the last decade.

These guys were drafted in the 1st too.

J.P. Losman
Byron Leftwich
Ryan Leaf 2nd overall
Tim Couch 1st overall
Akili Smith
Chad Pennington ?
Mike Vick 1st overall
Jason Campbell
Kyle Boller
Cade McNown
Patrick Ramsey
Joey Harrington 3rd overall
David Carr 1st overall
Alex Smith 1st overall
Rex Grossman.

Which list is longer?

Micjones · 05-14-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

Ben Roethlisberger
Peyton Manning
Philip Rivers
Eli Manning
Don McNabb

5 unquestionably good QBs (with Rivers on the border IMO) drafted in the first rnd in the last decade.

These guys were drafted in the 1st too.

J.P. Losman
Byron Leftwich
Ryan Leaf 2nd overall
Tim Couch 1st overall
Akili Smith
Chad Pennington ?
Mike Vick 1st overall
Jason Campbell
Kyle Boller
Cade McNown
Patrick Ramsey
Joey Harrington 3rd overall
David Carr 1st overall
Alex Smith 1st overall
Rex Grossman.

Which list is longer?

I wonder how long the list of unsuccessful QB's drafted in the Third Round would be? I'm just guessing here... But I'd imagine it's a lot longer.

Nightfyre · 05-14-2008, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

I wonder how long the list of unsuccessful QB's drafted in the Third Round would be? I'm just guessing here... But I'd imagine it's a lot longer.

There are a multitude of factors to that as well. If you invest 1st pick money into a player, you have to develop them, whereas a lot of teams will get impatient as you are now and abandon seemingly EQUAL (statistically) prospects.

Micjones · 05-14-2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

There are a multitude of factors to that as well. If you invest 1st pick money into a player, you have to develop them, whereas a lot of teams will get impatient as you are now and abandon seemingly EQUAL (statistically) prospects.

There are other factors with First Round picks as well.

I'm not impatient. I'm looking at the evidence in front of me.
The kid was no better in the 9th start than he was when he took his first pre-season snap. If I were in charge...I would've drafted someone and forced him into a serious competition in the off-season.

There's no reason why you can't flash in 1 stinking football game to show me you deserve more evaluation time. I'm sorry.

You guys are coddling Brodie Croyle.
Everyone keeps oversimplifying the issue like time and opportunity is all that's necessary for him to develop. Having the requisite skills be damned.

Nightfyre · 05-14-2008, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

There are other factors with First Round picks as well.

I'm not impatient. I'm looking at the evidence in front of me.
The kid was no better in the 9th start than he was when he took his first pre-season snap. If I were in charge...I would've drafted someone and forced him into a serious competition in the off-season.

There's no reason why you can't flash in 1 stinking football game to show me you deserve more evaluation time. I'm sorry.

You guys are coddling Brodie Croyle.

I'm all in favor of competition. But you can't make plays from your ass, and Brodie was probably the most sacked QB in the NFL last year over the last 6 games. The kid actually needs a chance to play in order to prove himself.

Nightfyre · 05-14-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

Having the requisite skills be damned.

The requisite skills for QBs are quite intangible. The physical attributes necessary, Brodie has. Whether or not hes the leader, whether or not he'll be able to make good decisions when he has more than 2.5 seconds to throw the ball and a gameplan that the defense doesn't KNOW, whether or not he can learn accuracy and touch, whether or not he can stay healthy,these are the questions.

Micjones · 05-14-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

I'm all in favor of competition. But you can't make plays from your ass, and Brodie was probably the most sacked QB in the NFL last year over the last 6 games. The kid actually needs a chance to play in order to prove himself.

That certainly didn't help him last year...

milkman · 05-14-2008, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

There are other factors with First Round picks as well.

I'm not impatient. I'm looking at the evidence in front of me.
The kid was no better in the 9th start than he was when he took his first pre-season snap. If I were in charge...I would've drafted someone and forced him into a serious competition in the off-season.

There's no reason why you can't flash in 1 stinking football game to show me you deserve more evaluation time. I'm sorry.

You guys are coddling Brodie Croyle.
Everyone keeps oversimplifying the issue like time and opportunity is all that's necessary for him to develop. Having the requisite skills be damned.

You need to look a little closer, cause Croyle only started 6 games.

Micjones · 05-14-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

You need to look a little closer, cause Croyle only started 6 games.

He had three pre-season starts.
We've been through this.

Fish · 05-14-2008, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

There are other factors with First Round picks as well.

I'm not impatient. I'm looking at the evidence in front of me.
The kid was no better in the 9th start than he was when he took his first pre-season snap. If I were in charge...I would've drafted someone and forced him into a serious competition in the off-season.

There's no reason why you can't flash in 1 stinking football game to show me you deserve more evaluation time. I'm sorry.

You guys are coddling Brodie Croyle.
Everyone keeps oversimplifying the issue like time and opportunity is all that's necessary for him to develop. Having the requisite skills be damned.

The evidence in front of you for Croyle has been shown to be comparable to HOF QBs in their first starts.... whether you dismiss that or not. The fact that you wouldn't give him any more time because of where he was picked doesn't change that fact.

Nobody is coddling Croyle. None of his defenders here are saying he's a probowler.

Whether he has the requisite skills or not is your opinion. Obviously those in charge don't agree with your assessment.

**Mr. Flopnuts** · 05-14-2008, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

I lost a "you" while retyping the title. Would a mod please correct the topic to read like this?

"OK Mr. Croyle, I've defended you loyally on this forum."

NO

Chiefs Pantalones · 05-14-2008, 09:30 PM

at some of you people. Croyle isn't worth the shit he wipes off his boots after he gets done duck hunting. I know, I know, we haven't seen him with an oline, yada yada. That's OK!!!!, as Herm would say, because you guys will see the proof this year that he's shit. I've already seen enough though.

**KcMizzou** · 05-14-2008, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla Thunder

at some of you people. Croyle isn't worth the shit he wipes off his boots after he gets done duck hunting. I know, I know, we haven't seen him with an oline, yada yada. That's OK!!!!, as Herm would say, because you guys will see the proof this year that he's shit. I've already seen enough though.

Worst case scenario : You're right and he's terrible. That puts us in a fantastic position to draft one of the best QB's available.

Best case scenario: You're wrong and Croyle emerges as a top young QB.

What's the problem?

Chiefs Pantalones · 05-14-2008, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KcMizzou

Worst case scenario : You're right and he's terrible. That puts us in a fantastic position to draft one of the best QB's available.

Best case scenario: You're wrong and Croyle emerges as a top young QB.

What's the problem?

I know what you're getting at...it's a win-win situation is what you're saying. I disagree ONLY for the fact that this franchise will be, once again, behind.

05-13-2008, 12:23 PM
Frankie Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Casino cash: $10004900	OK Mr. Croyle, I've defended loyally on this forum. It's time for you to reward me and the the rest of your defenders. I'm looking forward to reading a piece on the Star about how you have dedicated this off-season to gaining 10-15 pounds of muscle. I hope you haven't forgotten that as a necessary step for your career and gaining respect of the fans and your teammates.
Posts: 26,959

05-14-2008, 09:30 PM	#118
Chiefs Pantalones GO CHIEFS!!!!!! Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $6868717	at some of you people. Croyle isn't worth the shit he wipes off his boots after he gets done duck hunting. I know, I know, we haven't seen him with an oline, yada yada. That's OK!!!!, as Herm would say, because you guys will see the proof this year that he's shit. I've already seen enough though. __________________ Don't be fooled by my username, I'm white.
Posts: 26,653