Chiefs Posnanski:Croyle is too fragile to be the Chiefs’ answer at quarterback - Page 5

**Tribal Warfare** · 09-07-2008, 10:44 PM

Croyle is too fragile to be the Chiefs’ answer at quarterback

FOXBOROUGH, Mass. | Football is, at heart, a cold-blooded game. It’s easy to forget that because in the NFL, vicious hits are set to music and shoulders ripped from sockets are merely “separated” (leaving open a possibility for a reconciliation), and pain is reduced to those harmless-sounding words, ”questionable,” “doubtful” and “probable.”

In this heartless game, you need a quarterback who can get back up. That’s just a fact. It isn’t fair to blame the quarterback for suffering nasty injuries. It isn’t politically correct. But football isn’t a PC game. Sunday afternoon, the Chiefs were at the New England 5-yard line at the end with a chance to score a touchdown and tie the game, a chance to shock everyone, a chance to stick it in the faces of all those critics who called them the pits, a chance to laugh at all those people who bet the unbeatable New England Patriots to win by more than 15 points.

And the Chiefs’ quarterback of the future, the guy they’re building this whole thing around, the man who needed to be on the field at that key moment — Brodie Croyle — was on the sideline because of a shoulder injury.

In the end, nobody outside Kansas City cared, of course. The Patriots held on, beat the Chiefs 17-10, and the Chiefs showed a few positive signs, the Patriots showed a few cracks, but the only story on anyone’s mind Sunday was that the Patriots’ (and America’s) quarterback Tom Brady hurt his knee.

Some thought it happened on a dirty play by Chiefs safety Bernard Pollard, some thought it was just bad luck (that was the way I saw it), some suspected Brady would be out for the year, some thought he would be back next week, some figured the Patriots would collapse without him, some thought they would be just fine, back and forth, on and on, forever.

But, to be ruthless about it — football is a ruthless game — that’s the Patriots’ problem. To steal Mel Brooks’ line about the difference between tragedy and comedy: Tragedy is your quarterback getting hurt. Comedy is the other guy’s quarterback getting hurt.

The Chiefs’ quarterback, Brodie Croyle, got hurt. Again. This was the third time in seven starts that Croyle got hurt. Three for seven makes for a lousy injury average.

Thing is, Croyle has spent a lifetime getting hurt on football fields. He blew out his knee in high school. He separated his shoulder and got two ribs busted his sophomore year in college, then blew out his other knee his junior year. Last year, in his first home start, he hurt his back against Oakland and missed the next game. He hurt his hand at Detroit trying to make a tackle and couldn’t finish the game.

In the third quarter on Sunday, New England linebacker Adalius Thomas sacked Brodie and drove his right shoulder hard into the turf. Croyle grabbed for his shoulder immediately. He walked gingerly to the sideline, with his right arm dangling on the side. He threw one pass to test the shoulder and quickly shook his head no. He was done. Backup Damon Huard went into the game, threw a touchdown pass, led the Chiefs to the shadow of overtime and, well, you know the rest.

Now the Chiefs have to face up to something very real: The chosen quarterback, Brodie Croyle, cannot stay healthy. It isn’t his fault — this isn’t a toughness question. Everyone says the guy is as tough as a Ford truck. But the harsh reality is that his body, for whatever reason, cannot stand up to the NFL pounding. And you can’t build a football team around a quarterback who cannot stay on the field.

“Maybe he’s just unlucky,” one teammate says.

There’s no maybe about it. Croyle has talent. He has a good arm, and he has a pretty quick release, and he has a presence. That’s what everyone with the Chiefs wants to talk about when discussing Croyle. His abilities. The way he handles the huddle. The throws he can make. That’s great. But those are not the things that get you through in this violent game.

No, what made Brett Favre great wasn’t his arm or his gunslinger attitude, it was that he was able to be there every single week, no matter what kind of pounding he took, no matter how ferociously he was hit, no matter how many times he got blindsided. The same goes for John Elway and Dan Marino and Peyton Manning and, up to Sunday, Tom Brady. The one thing every great quarterback shared is that they started games. And they finished them.

That takes more than toughness, and it takes more than heart. You also need luck, a body that will not break, a mind that can ignore the obvious dangers that are all around.

Here’s a name for you: Greg Cook. Have you heard of him? Bill Walsh, the man who coached Joe Montana, said Greg Cook could have been the greatest quarterback who ever lived. As you know, that did not happen. Cook played one year in the NFL, was chosen Rookie of the Year, but badly hurt his shoulder. He threw only three more passes for the rest of his career. That’s the harshness of the game.

And right now, it looks more and more that Brodie Croyle simply cannot take the NFL pounding. The Chiefs’ young team did show promise Sunday. The defense played a high-energy game, and Turk McBride was often unblockable. The offense looked more organized than the last couple of years, and if Devard Darling could run a little faster or Dwayne Bowe could have made a catch, the game would have gone to overtime.

But in the end, plainly, you need a quarterback you can count on to go anywhere in this league. The Chiefs said they would test Croyle’s shoulder today, see the seriousness of the injury.

“He’s so tough, I’ll bet he will be back sooner than anyone thinks,” Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez says.

Maybe. Nobody questions Croyle’s heart. It’s his shoulder … and knees … and back. In the end, those things matter just as much as the heart.

KCJohnny · 09-08-2008, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOhillbilly

sammy baugh?

LOL! Good guess. Baugh played his last game before WWII when no QBs had a facemask. The tough guy in question was Bobby Layne, I believe as late as 1962.

KCJohnny · 09-08-2008, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

This may sound ****ed up but Butkus and all that is a different era, in todays game he'd be considered to slow.

You are right. It sounds ****ed up.

KCJohnny · 09-08-2008, 06:48 AM

Here ya go young Mr. Mecca, just for you. Consider this an education in history and manhood.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 09-08-2008, 06:50 AM

People are showing their ignorance by even suggesting that Croyle isn't tough, or that he's bagging out of games when the going gets tough.

We're talking about a guy who:

Played half a season at Alabama with multiple cracked ribs and a separated shoulder.

Took a painkiller and finished the Oakland game last year with a bruised kidney.

The kid has all the toughness in the world. He just can't stay healthy enough to play regularly.

TEX · 09-08-2008, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I see the arm and the pass's that only he can fit in to a reciever and I hold out hope. But the reality is that he's done to me. His history of injuries is too lengthy to be happenstance.

And now 3 injuries in 7 games started in the NFL. That ain't good.

What passes are you talking about that ,"Only he can fit in to a receiver?" Brodie has done nothing special at QB to make anyone think he's the answer. However, perormance aside, he's done much in 7 starts to lead one to belive he's injury-prone and will never hold up in this league. Facts are facts.

**BigRedChief** · 09-08-2008, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

People are showing their ignorance by even suggesting that Croyle isn't tough, or that he's bagging out of games when the going gets tough.

We're talking about a guy who:

Played half a season at Alabama with multiple cracked ribs and a separated shoulder.

Took a painkiller and finished the Oakland game last year with a bruised kidney.

The kid has all the toughness in the world. He just can't stay healthy enough to play regularly.

Right.

The kid is tough he just can't stay healthy.

I spent 30 mintues talking with him and his wife last year. They were really down to earth people and very nice to everyone they interacted with. But Brodie looks awfully skinny. I'm sure he has some muscle on his frame but you would never think NFL QB when you stand beside him. I dwarfed the guy.

My wife saw him and us talking and standing next to each other and later she asked me who that was and I told her the Chiefs QB and she said he's too small he's going to get killed.

Brodie has the heart and leadership to be a starting NFL QB. He just doesn't have the body.

**Rausch** · 09-08-2008, 07:00 AM

I don't know that it matters how durable Brodie is.

When Huard came in the offense looked better and scored. I'm not all Huard-pimping, I'm just saying that it's better to be stuck with jock itch than azz cancer...

KCJohnny · 09-08-2008, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Brodie has the heart and leadership to be a starting NFL QB. He just doesn't have the body.

Sounds like he has a brilliant future as an offensive coordinator.

KCJohnny · 09-08-2008, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

I don't know that it matters how durable Brodie is.

When Huard came in the offense looked better and scored. I'm not all Huard-pimping, I'm just saying that it's better to be stuck with jock itch than azz cancer...

It is what it is, Brad. Thanks for being candid. This won't win me cool points, but Huard deserves to be the starting QB. He just isn't the future.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 09-08-2008, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

I don't know that it matters how durable Brodie is.

When Huard came in the offense looked better and scored. I'm not all Huard-pimping, I'm just saying that it's better to be stuck with jock itch than azz cancer...

Which is a different issue entirely, and exactly why I hope the current regime passes on a QB if they are still around next April.

They'll gladly handcuff Croyle, who has the arm necessary to stretch the field and squeeze passes into tight spots - and not turn the ball over - yet they open things up for Huard, who looks like he's constantly throwing into a 30MPH headwind, and turns the ball over like it's his job.

This staff would do nothing but shatter any chance a young QB has of being successful in the NFL.

Part of grooming a young QB is letting him loose and have him learn from his mistakes. Which makes this even more puzzling - Herm has no patience for mistakes from Croyle or Thigpen, but he does for Huard?

TEX · 09-08-2008, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

People are showing their ignorance by even suggesting that Croyle isn't tough, or that he's bagging out of games when the going gets tough.

We're talking about a guy who:

Played half a season at Alabama with multiple cracked ribs and a separated shoulder.

Took a painkiller and finished the Oakland game last year with a bruised kidney.

The kid has all the toughness in the world. He just can't stay healthy enough to play regularly.

Yep. He's the "toughest" injury-prone QB in the league...

KCJohnny · 09-08-2008, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Which is a different issue entirely, and exactly why I hope the current regime passes on a QB if they are still around next April.

They'll gladly handcuff Croyle, who has the arm necessary to stretch the field and squeeze passes into tight spots - and not turn the ball over - yet they open things up for Huard, who looks like he's constantly throwing into a 30MPH headwind, and turns the ball over like it's his job.

This staff would do nothing but shatter any chance a young QB has of being successful in the NFL.

Part of grooming a young QB is letting him loose and have him learn from his mistakes. Which makes this even more puzzling - Herm has no patience for mistakes from Croyle or Thigpen, but he does for Huard?

You make a good point but Huard is lightyears ahead of the young QBs. He is just a lot more experienced than they are having been a #2 for Marino, Brady and Trent Green.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 09-08-2008, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX

Yep. He's the "toughest" injury-prone QB in the league...

Seriously, you're an idiot.

He's played with cracked ribs, a separated shoulder, and a bruised kidney.

What else does he have to do to prove his toughness?

Play with a compound fracture of his femur?

Pasta Little Brioni · 09-08-2008, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Seriously, you're an idiot.

He's played with cracked ribs, a separated shoulder, and a bruised kidney.

What else does he have to do to prove his toughness?

Play with a compound fracture of his femur?

But, TEX could play with 2 broken legs!!!!

Shag · 09-08-2008, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeaTy The Pimp

I only said that because that it seems that everytime that a game is going particularly bad, he gets "conveniently" hurt. Maybe it is just me being overly critical, but that is just what I've seen.

Chiefs were only down 7-3 when he got hurt yesterday...

09-07-2008, 10:44 PM
Tribal Warfare Man of Culture Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $-3047187	Posnanski:Croyle is too fragile to be the Chiefs’ answer at quarterback Croyle is too fragile to be the Chiefs’ answer at quarterback FOXBOROUGH, Mass. \| Football is, at heart, a cold-blooded game. It’s easy to forget that because in the NFL, vicious hits are set to music and shoulders ripped from sockets are merely “separated” (leaving open a possibility for a reconciliation), and pain is reduced to those harmless-sounding words, ”questionable,” “doubtful” and “probable.” In this heartless game, you need a quarterback who can get back up. That’s just a fact. It isn’t fair to blame the quarterback for suffering nasty injuries. It isn’t politically correct. But football isn’t a PC game. Sunday afternoon, the Chiefs were at the New England 5-yard line at the end with a chance to score a touchdown and tie the game, a chance to shock everyone, a chance to stick it in the faces of all those critics who called them the pits, a chance to laugh at all those people who bet the unbeatable New England Patriots to win by more than 15 points. And the Chiefs’ quarterback of the future, the guy they’re building this whole thing around, the man who needed to be on the field at that key moment — Brodie Croyle — was on the sideline because of a shoulder injury. In the end, nobody outside Kansas City cared, of course. The Patriots held on, beat the Chiefs 17-10, and the Chiefs showed a few positive signs, the Patriots showed a few cracks, but the only story on anyone’s mind Sunday was that the Patriots’ (and America’s) quarterback Tom Brady hurt his knee. Some thought it happened on a dirty play by Chiefs safety Bernard Pollard, some thought it was just bad luck (that was the way I saw it), some suspected Brady would be out for the year, some thought he would be back next week, some figured the Patriots would collapse without him, some thought they would be just fine, back and forth, on and on, forever. But, to be ruthless about it — football is a ruthless game — that’s the Patriots’ problem. To steal Mel Brooks’ line about the difference between tragedy and comedy: Tragedy is your quarterback getting hurt. Comedy is the other guy’s quarterback getting hurt. The Chiefs’ quarterback, Brodie Croyle, got hurt. Again. This was the third time in seven starts that Croyle got hurt. Three for seven makes for a lousy injury average. Thing is, Croyle has spent a lifetime getting hurt on football fields. He blew out his knee in high school. He separated his shoulder and got two ribs busted his sophomore year in college, then blew out his other knee his junior year. Last year, in his first home start, he hurt his back against Oakland and missed the next game. He hurt his hand at Detroit trying to make a tackle and couldn’t finish the game. In the third quarter on Sunday, New England linebacker Adalius Thomas sacked Brodie and drove his right shoulder hard into the turf. Croyle grabbed for his shoulder immediately. He walked gingerly to the sideline, with his right arm dangling on the side. He threw one pass to test the shoulder and quickly shook his head no. He was done. Backup Damon Huard went into the game, threw a touchdown pass, led the Chiefs to the shadow of overtime and, well, you know the rest. Now the Chiefs have to face up to something very real: The chosen quarterback, Brodie Croyle, cannot stay healthy. It isn’t his fault — this isn’t a toughness question. Everyone says the guy is as tough as a Ford truck. But the harsh reality is that his body, for whatever reason, cannot stand up to the NFL pounding. And you can’t build a football team around a quarterback who cannot stay on the field. “Maybe he’s just unlucky,” one teammate says. There’s no maybe about it. Croyle has talent. He has a good arm, and he has a pretty quick release, and he has a presence. That’s what everyone with the Chiefs wants to talk about when discussing Croyle. His abilities. The way he handles the huddle. The throws he can make. That’s great. But those are not the things that get you through in this violent game. No, what made Brett Favre great wasn’t his arm or his gunslinger attitude, it was that he was able to be there every single week, no matter what kind of pounding he took, no matter how ferociously he was hit, no matter how many times he got blindsided. The same goes for John Elway and Dan Marino and Peyton Manning and, up to Sunday, Tom Brady. The one thing every great quarterback shared is that they started games. And they finished them. That takes more than toughness, and it takes more than heart. You also need luck, a body that will not break, a mind that can ignore the obvious dangers that are all around. Here’s a name for you: Greg Cook. Have you heard of him? Bill Walsh, the man who coached Joe Montana, said Greg Cook could have been the greatest quarterback who ever lived. As you know, that did not happen. Cook played one year in the NFL, was chosen Rookie of the Year, but badly hurt his shoulder. He threw only three more passes for the rest of his career. That’s the harshness of the game. And right now, it looks more and more that Brodie Croyle simply cannot take the NFL pounding. The Chiefs’ young team did show promise Sunday. The defense played a high-energy game, and Turk McBride was often unblockable. The offense looked more organized than the last couple of years, and if Devard Darling could run a little faster or Dwayne Bowe could have made a catch, the game would have gone to overtime. But in the end, plainly, you need a quarterback you can count on to go anywhere in this league. The Chiefs said they would test Croyle’s shoulder today, see the seriousness of the injury. “He’s so tough, I’ll bet he will be back sooner than anyone thinks,” Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez says. Maybe. Nobody questions Croyle’s heart. It’s his shoulder … and knees … and back. In the end, those things matter just as much as the heart.
Posts: 43,455

09-08-2008, 06:48 AM	#63
KCJohnny Blind, deceived homer Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Maryland, USA Casino cash: $10004900	Here ya go young Mr. Mecca, just for you. Consider this an education in history and manhood. __________________
Posts: 6,347

09-08-2008, 06:50 AM	#64
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2041115	People are showing their ignorance by even suggesting that Croyle isn't tough, or that he's bagging out of games when the going gets tough. We're talking about a guy who: Played half a season at Alabama with multiple cracked ribs and a separated shoulder. Took a painkiller and finished the Oakland game last year with a bruised kidney. The kid has all the toughness in the world. He just can't stay healthy enough to play regularly.
Posts: 60,758