Chiefs WHITLOCK - Herm is innocent, Carl is evil - Page 3

Hammock Parties · 10-14-2008, 11:00 PM

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/841754.html

In the minutes after the Chiefs failed to unload unhappy tight end Tony Gonzalez, Herm Edwards sent a clear, concise, fair and accurate message Tuesday afternoon:

The aborted fire sale and current mess at Arrowhead Stadium are not his creation or a reflection of his coaching methods.

When asked by radio reporter Rhonda Moss what Gonzalez’s trade request said about Carl Peterson, the Chiefs organization and its current head coach, Edwards — perhaps unintentionally — summarized his position on the whole affair.

“It doesn’t say anything about me,” Edwards responded. “It doesn’t say one thing about me. It has nothing to do with me. You need to ask the player that. That’s not for me to answer. I’m not going to answer for a football player. I don’t have to do that. I answer for the decisions that I make, what comes out of my mouth.”

Edwards couldn’t have been more transparent.

Kansas City’s inability to retrieve reasonable compensation for Gonzalez is not Herm’s fault. Larry Johnson’s third assault case and possible suspension (by the league or the Chiefs) are not Herm’s fault. The lack of league-wide interest in the services of Damon Huard, Patrick Surtain and Donnie Edwards is not Herm’s fault.

You can blame Herm for Kansas City’s 5-16 record over the past two seasons, but it is unfair to make him culpable for the sad reality that things are likely to get worse before they get significantly better for the Chiefs.

Carl Peterson is responsible for that.

Much will be made of Herm’s apparently smug and dismissive tone at Tuesday’s news conference. He said he hadn’t spoken to Gonzalez about the situation and probably wouldn’t. Edwards said he hadn’t spoken to Larry Johnson about his latest off-field mishap. With his team sitting at 1-4 and reeling from an embarrassing loss at Carolina, Edwards is focused on controlling what he can control and leaving the rest in God’s hands or the people responsible for the problem.

It’s a prudent approach, if you believe the truth will set you free.

It’s no secret that the Chiefs are an organization burning in flames, and Edwards seems to be getting more and more comfortable letting everyone see the gas, matches and electric fans sitting on Carl Peterson’s desk.

Let’s look at this objectively, shall we? Peterson has run this ballclub like a private fraternity. His special pledges — Gonzalez, Johnson, Priest Holmes and, to a lesser degree, Donnie Edwards — have been rewarded with contracts that haven’t necessarily been in the best interest of the football team.

•Peterson misread Gonzalez’s ability to deal with a rebuilding process.

•Peterson misread Johnson’s ability to handle success, money, leadership and a 400-carry season.

•Peterson misread Holmes’ desire to continue playing football after recovering from a hip injury by any means necessary.

•Peterson misread Donnie Edwards’ ability to remain healthy after more than a decade of being injury free.

•And most damaging, Peterson miscalculated by a year the right time to blow up the roster and usher in a youth movement.

All of that misreading, miscalculating and special friendship with players who have never won the Chiefs a single playoff game created the chaos that has turned the franchise into a laughingstock.

Look, if the Patriots give Tom Brady and Tedy Bruschi one contract extension too many, I’ll understand it and totally forgive Bill Belichick. If the Colts let Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison overstay their usefulness, it’s defensible. Those players won championships for their franchises.

But the NFL is the league that dumps Joe Montana and Jerry Rice, runs Brett Favre to New York and lets Joe Namath hobble around Los Angeles and O.J. Simpson limp across San Francisco’s Golden Gate Bridge.

Meanwhile, Carl Peterson tosses golden parachutes to his favorite draft picks and free-agent signings over drinks at the Capital Grille.

It’s unprofessional. It’s irresponsible. It’s a good-old-boy network in a league that requires a ruthless disloyalty when it comes to money.

You know what used to irritate Marty Schottenheimer? Every time he tried to take a hard-line disciplinary stance with Derrick Thomas, the Golden Child would run to his adopted father (Peterson) for protection.

Gonzalez has spent the last two weeks upset that he didn’t get to break the tight-end record at home against the Broncos. He had his family in town. The Chiefs were going to stop the game and have a quick ceremony.

Who do you think planned the on-field party, Herm or Carl? Who do you think raised Tony’s expectations for a hey-look-at-me moment and set up potential conflict between star player and head coach, Herm or Carl?

The way the club is currently managed, a coaching staff filled with Vince Lombardi, Tom Landry, Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh, Don Shula and Hank Stram couldn’t lead the Chiefs to .500.

tk13 · 10-14-2008, 11:53 PM

We went through all that BS when we hired Herm. Not going through it again. I personally don't give two cents about any jaded Jets fan opinion. Blah, blah... You could make a list a mile long for most NFL coaches and their stupid decision. Even guys like Shanahan and Holmgren. Heck, a couple weeks ago Belichick got destroyed by the no-QB offense we all thought was a joke.

I don't think Herm's the greatest coach of all time, but I think you could do worse. You don't make the playoffs 4 times in 6 years on accident. You don't. I still believe that. If you don't, tough. That doesn't make you Bill Walsh, but it probably puts you in category with guys like Schottenheimer and way above guys like Linehan or Cam Cameron. I'll fight that to the death, because I'm right, the results prove it. If you gave him Bill Polian feeding him talent he would probably be thought of differently. Maybe not Super Bowls, but probably putting winning teams on the field. If you don't believe that, okay then, you can sit here and be beligerent for 300 some odd posts until your fingers fall off. Oh well. It's pointless... Herm will be lucky to accomplish anything else here.... the bottom line is the entire organization has been sucked into a vortex that will eventually result in nuking half the franchise before we get it right. I've stayed out of it, I'm not getting sucked into this giant ring of depression and anger most of you people have thrown yourself into. That's all I have to say on the matter.

ClevelandBronco · 10-14-2008, 11:55 PM

I still can't believe that incompetent twit beat the Broncos.

Good grief.

SBK · 10-14-2008, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

If Carl goes so does Herm, because that was HIS GUY. Bon voyage bitches!!!!!!!!!!!

New GM would expect his own coach. If Carl goes Herm will go with him, or we'll never find a GM....

ClevelandBronco · 10-14-2008, 11:56 PM

I'm really sorry that he extended his tenure.

Maybe that was the plan.

I can only hope.

Boris The Great · 10-15-2008, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamas Jenkins

Originally Posted by Sperm Edwards

Seriously, hasnt this been picked apart enough over the years? Why not go around posting a compilation of quotes from Rerun or petegz or one of those guys, it would be just as good.

FringeNC · 10-15-2008, 04:57 AM

Regarding Herm being a good coach or not, other GMs will be smart enough to allocate the blame between Herm and Carl, and my prediction is that Herm will get enough of the blame as to never get another head coaching job again.

This feud between Carl and Herm is the most entertaining part of the season. It's like when Al Qaeda began to fight the Baath loyalists -- red on red violence as they say.

Chief Henry · 10-15-2008, 05:33 AM

Our organization is hopeless and or clueless, probubly both.

Messier · 10-15-2008, 05:40 AM

As bad as some of the stuff that's happening looks, I think it is necessary. This is the kind of thing that needed to happen to blow up the front office. We want Peterson gone, the only way that can happen, before his planned farewell, is for the Chiefs to be run into the ground. Yes, it should have been done when the Chiefs were merely mediocre and not really bad, but this was needed for real change to come.

I will be shocked if Peterson is retained after this season.

**MahiMike** · 10-15-2008, 05:47 AM

Herm = John McCain
Carl = George W

Both are now distancing themselves from ea other

milkman · 10-15-2008, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris The Great

Seriously, hasnt this been picked apart enough over the years? Why not go around posting a compilation of quotes from Rerun or petegz or one of those guys, it would be just as good.

Some of that is without foundation, but there is a lot of it that is spot on.

Deberg_1990 · 10-15-2008, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

Whitlock doesn't get it, does he? Nobody's buying tickets to watch a Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards football team, one way or another. For those who are, they are probably what Blob Gretz calls them, classless and deranged fans anyways.

Let me point this out to you Whitlock, if you are ever still lurking or posting on this board. Name one rookie player, outside of the secondary/defensive backs, that has shown considerate improvement from week in to week out?

Or even better, let's see if there has been any improvement as a team in whole? Other than the close NE game, and the possible fluke win aganist Denver, this team has been downright awful in all aspects of the game. If there isn't any improvement from either the team in some categories, or individual player(s) then who's to blame?

That's right, Herm Edwards and his coaching staff.

Whatever Whitlock, keep defending your so-called lover Herm Edwards, when it's clearly obvious to this fan that the shit has hit the ceiling fan. I'm tired of listening to Herm lame excuses on why things never work. "Oh, I don't know, because I haven't watched the tape yet."

Huh?

Hello, Herm? Were you at the game, or were you fantasizing about your shenanigan needing some attention from your wife or mistress?

Whatever, Whitlock. I encourage you to read this post anyways, although I don't expect you to do so anyways, since you work for the almighty powerful Kansas City Star, and only your opinion matters, and everybody else's opinion don't mean diddly poo.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...49#post4975349

Did u miss this part?

"You can blame Herm for Kansas City’s 5-16 record over the past two seasons"

This column is more a dig on CP's love affair and unending loyalty to certain players and how it is negatively affecting the team.

**dirk digler** · 10-15-2008, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Herm, once again, throws anyone and everyone under the bus to save his own hide.

Don't say we didn't have plenty of advanced warning about his dumbassery and incompetence.

Yep this is nothing new. I hate Carl as much as anybody but Herm has just as much blame.

FAX · 10-15-2008, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris The Great

Seriously, hasnt this been picked apart enough over the years? Why not go around posting a compilation of quotes from Rerun or petegz or one of those guys, it would be just as good.

I, for one, am very glad it was posted. I don't think I ever saw that before.

It's true, obviously, that any coach is going to make mistakes and you can dredge up those errors in judgement at any time. It comes with the job, I'm afraid. They keep records of statistics, after all, and fans (like this person) pay close attention. Herm is an interesting case, though.

He is one of the very few who appears committed to making the exact same mistakes over and over again. Why should any fan ignore that problem? To do so would either by optimistic to a fault, ambivalent about the team, or merely ignorant.

Herm is a strange man. He has been elevated far beyond his abilities and Chiefs fans (whose number I count myself among) are saddled with him. He is, therefore, fair game for those of us who have followed and supported and cheered for the team decades before Herm was thrust upon us.

FAX

**Rausch** · 10-15-2008, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

You can blame Herm for Kansas City’s 5-16 record over the past two seasons, but it is unfair to make him culpable for the sad reality that things are likely to get worse before they get significantly better for the Chiefs.

Carl Peterson is responsible for that.

BS.

Peterson hired Herm. Traded for him even.

Your HC and GM should work as a team, even more so when the HC is the GM's choice. If it doesn't work with your old friend and first choice why would anyone think it could work with Peterson and someone who isn't?

When you fail it's not just one head. You can the GM which means the HC, Coordinators (at least most likely,) and even a good helping of position coaches as the new regime takes over.

You were hired to IMPROVE the team. If you can't after your fourth try (Carl, with 4 different HC's) or your third year (Herm) why keep these people around?

TEX · 10-15-2008, 06:55 AM

You can blame Herm for Kansas City’s 5-16 record over the past two seasons, but it is unfair to make him culpable for the sad reality that things are likely to get worse before they get significantly better for the Chiefs.

And I will. Herm is a terrible HC. He needs to go along with Carl. This organization needs a fresh start.

10-14-2008, 11:00 PM
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $840478	WHITLOCK - Herm is innocent, Carl is evil http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/841754.html In the minutes after the Chiefs failed to unload unhappy tight end Tony Gonzalez, Herm Edwards sent a clear, concise, fair and accurate message Tuesday afternoon: The aborted fire sale and current mess at Arrowhead Stadium are not his creation or a reflection of his coaching methods. When asked by radio reporter Rhonda Moss what Gonzalez’s trade request said about Carl Peterson, the Chiefs organization and its current head coach, Edwards — perhaps unintentionally — summarized his position on the whole affair. “It doesn’t say anything about me,” Edwards responded. “It doesn’t say one thing about me. It has nothing to do with me. You need to ask the player that. That’s not for me to answer. I’m not going to answer for a football player. I don’t have to do that. I answer for the decisions that I make, what comes out of my mouth.” Edwards couldn’t have been more transparent. Kansas City’s inability to retrieve reasonable compensation for Gonzalez is not Herm’s fault. Larry Johnson’s third assault case and possible suspension (by the league or the Chiefs) are not Herm’s fault. The lack of league-wide interest in the services of Damon Huard, Patrick Surtain and Donnie Edwards is not Herm’s fault. You can blame Herm for Kansas City’s 5-16 record over the past two seasons, but it is unfair to make him culpable for the sad reality that things are likely to get worse before they get significantly better for the Chiefs. Carl Peterson is responsible for that. Much will be made of Herm’s apparently smug and dismissive tone at Tuesday’s news conference. He said he hadn’t spoken to Gonzalez about the situation and probably wouldn’t. Edwards said he hadn’t spoken to Larry Johnson about his latest off-field mishap. With his team sitting at 1-4 and reeling from an embarrassing loss at Carolina, Edwards is focused on controlling what he can control and leaving the rest in God’s hands or the people responsible for the problem. It’s a prudent approach, if you believe the truth will set you free. It’s no secret that the Chiefs are an organization burning in flames, and Edwards seems to be getting more and more comfortable letting everyone see the gas, matches and electric fans sitting on Carl Peterson’s desk. Let’s look at this objectively, shall we? Peterson has run this ballclub like a private fraternity. His special pledges — Gonzalez, Johnson, Priest Holmes and, to a lesser degree, Donnie Edwards — have been rewarded with contracts that haven’t necessarily been in the best interest of the football team. •Peterson misread Gonzalez’s ability to deal with a rebuilding process. •Peterson misread Johnson’s ability to handle success, money, leadership and a 400-carry season. •Peterson misread Holmes’ desire to continue playing football after recovering from a hip injury by any means necessary. •Peterson misread Donnie Edwards’ ability to remain healthy after more than a decade of being injury free. •And most damaging, Peterson miscalculated by a year the right time to blow up the roster and usher in a youth movement. All of that misreading, miscalculating and special friendship with players who have never won the Chiefs a single playoff game created the chaos that has turned the franchise into a laughingstock. Look, if the Patriots give Tom Brady and Tedy Bruschi one contract extension too many, I’ll understand it and totally forgive Bill Belichick. If the Colts let Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison overstay their usefulness, it’s defensible. Those players won championships for their franchises. But the NFL is the league that dumps Joe Montana and Jerry Rice, runs Brett Favre to New York and lets Joe Namath hobble around Los Angeles and O.J. Simpson limp across San Francisco’s Golden Gate Bridge. Meanwhile, Carl Peterson tosses golden parachutes to his favorite draft picks and free-agent signings over drinks at the Capital Grille. It’s unprofessional. It’s irresponsible. It’s a good-old-boy network in a league that requires a ruthless disloyalty when it comes to money. You know what used to irritate Marty Schottenheimer? Every time he tried to take a hard-line disciplinary stance with Derrick Thomas, the Golden Child would run to his adopted father (Peterson) for protection. Gonzalez has spent the last two weeks upset that he didn’t get to break the tight-end record at home against the Broncos. He had his family in town. The Chiefs were going to stop the game and have a quick ceremony. Who do you think planned the on-field party, Herm or Carl? Who do you think raised Tony’s expectations for a hey-look-at-me moment and set up potential conflict between star player and head coach, Herm or Carl? The way the club is currently managed, a coaching staff filled with Vince Lombardi, Tom Landry, Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh, Don Shula and Hank Stram couldn’t lead the Chiefs to .500.
Posts: 297,340

10-14-2008, 11:53 PM	#31
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $-1857500	We went through all that BS when we hired Herm. Not going through it again. I personally don't give two cents about any jaded Jets fan opinion. Blah, blah... You could make a list a mile long for most NFL coaches and their stupid decision. Even guys like Shanahan and Holmgren. Heck, a couple weeks ago Belichick got destroyed by the no-QB offense we all thought was a joke. I don't think Herm's the greatest coach of all time, but I think you could do worse. You don't make the playoffs 4 times in 6 years on accident. You don't. I still believe that. If you don't, tough. That doesn't make you Bill Walsh, but it probably puts you in category with guys like Schottenheimer and way above guys like Linehan or Cam Cameron. I'll fight that to the death, because I'm right, the results prove it. If you gave him Bill Polian feeding him talent he would probably be thought of differently. Maybe not Super Bowls, but probably putting winning teams on the field. If you don't believe that, okay then, you can sit here and be beligerent for 300 some odd posts until your fingers fall off. Oh well. It's pointless... Herm will be lucky to accomplish anything else here.... the bottom line is the entire organization has been sucked into a vortex that will eventually result in nuking half the franchise before we get it right. I've stayed out of it, I'm not getting sucked into this giant ring of depression and anger most of you people have thrown yourself into. That's all I have to say on the matter. Last edited by tk13; 10-15-2008 at 12:00 AM..
Posts: 56,692

10-14-2008, 11:55 PM	#32
ClevelandBronco I'm with the banned. Join Date: Sep 2006 Casino cash: $5658955	I still can't believe that incompetent twit beat the Broncos. Good grief.
Posts: 28,113

10-14-2008, 11:56 PM	#34
ClevelandBronco I'm with the banned. Join Date: Sep 2006 Casino cash: $5658955	I'm really sorry that he extended his tenure. Maybe that was the plan. I can only hope.
Posts: 28,113

10-15-2008, 04:57 AM	#36
FringeNC MVP Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NC Casino cash: $-1753986	Regarding Herm being a good coach or not, other GMs will be smart enough to allocate the blame between Herm and Carl, and my prediction is that Herm will get enough of the blame as to never get another head coaching job again. This feud between Carl and Herm is the most entertaining part of the season. It's like when Al Qaeda began to fight the Baath loyalists -- red on red violence as they say.
Posts: 10,234

10-15-2008, 05:33 AM	#37
Chief Henry MVP Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: IOWA Casino cash: $10005088	Our organization is hopeless and or clueless, probubly both. __________________ Patrick Mahomes...The only QB to ever play in the NFL with at least 5,000 passing yards in a single season and 5,000 passing yards in a single college season.
Posts: 8,361

10-15-2008, 05:40 AM	#38
Messier MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Casino cash: $10005050	As bad as some of the stuff that's happening looks, I think it is necessary. This is the kind of thing that needed to happen to blow up the front office. We want Peterson gone, the only way that can happen, before his planned farewell, is for the Chiefs to be run into the ground. Yes, it should have been done when the Chiefs were merely mediocre and not really bad, but this was needed for real change to come. I will be shocked if Peterson is retained after this season.
Posts: 7,610

10-15-2008, 05:47 AM	#39
MahiMike He's Mahomie! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Jax, FL Casino cash: $10023443	Herm = John McCain Carl = George W Both are now distancing themselves from ea other
Posts: 17,387

10-15-2008, 06:55 AM	#45
TEX Out Gunning CP's Fandom Police Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Galveston, TX Casino cash: $-1406873	You can blame Herm for Kansas City’s 5-16 record over the past two seasons, but it is unfair to make him culpable for the sad reality that things are likely to get worse before they get significantly better for the Chiefs. And I will. Herm is a terrible HC. He needs to go along with Carl. This organization needs a fresh start. __________________ "Do we have time to run WASP?"
Posts: 37,088