Chiefs WHITLOCK - Herm is innocent, Carl is evil - Page 5

Hammock Parties · 10-14-2008, 11:00 PM

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/841754.html

In the minutes after the Chiefs failed to unload unhappy tight end Tony Gonzalez, Herm Edwards sent a clear, concise, fair and accurate message Tuesday afternoon:

The aborted fire sale and current mess at Arrowhead Stadium are not his creation or a reflection of his coaching methods.

When asked by radio reporter Rhonda Moss what Gonzalez’s trade request said about Carl Peterson, the Chiefs organization and its current head coach, Edwards — perhaps unintentionally — summarized his position on the whole affair.

“It doesn’t say anything about me,” Edwards responded. “It doesn’t say one thing about me. It has nothing to do with me. You need to ask the player that. That’s not for me to answer. I’m not going to answer for a football player. I don’t have to do that. I answer for the decisions that I make, what comes out of my mouth.”

Edwards couldn’t have been more transparent.

Kansas City’s inability to retrieve reasonable compensation for Gonzalez is not Herm’s fault. Larry Johnson’s third assault case and possible suspension (by the league or the Chiefs) are not Herm’s fault. The lack of league-wide interest in the services of Damon Huard, Patrick Surtain and Donnie Edwards is not Herm’s fault.

You can blame Herm for Kansas City’s 5-16 record over the past two seasons, but it is unfair to make him culpable for the sad reality that things are likely to get worse before they get significantly better for the Chiefs.

Carl Peterson is responsible for that.

Much will be made of Herm’s apparently smug and dismissive tone at Tuesday’s news conference. He said he hadn’t spoken to Gonzalez about the situation and probably wouldn’t. Edwards said he hadn’t spoken to Larry Johnson about his latest off-field mishap. With his team sitting at 1-4 and reeling from an embarrassing loss at Carolina, Edwards is focused on controlling what he can control and leaving the rest in God’s hands or the people responsible for the problem.

It’s a prudent approach, if you believe the truth will set you free.

It’s no secret that the Chiefs are an organization burning in flames, and Edwards seems to be getting more and more comfortable letting everyone see the gas, matches and electric fans sitting on Carl Peterson’s desk.

Let’s look at this objectively, shall we? Peterson has run this ballclub like a private fraternity. His special pledges — Gonzalez, Johnson, Priest Holmes and, to a lesser degree, Donnie Edwards — have been rewarded with contracts that haven’t necessarily been in the best interest of the football team.

•Peterson misread Gonzalez’s ability to deal with a rebuilding process.

•Peterson misread Johnson’s ability to handle success, money, leadership and a 400-carry season.

•Peterson misread Holmes’ desire to continue playing football after recovering from a hip injury by any means necessary.

•Peterson misread Donnie Edwards’ ability to remain healthy after more than a decade of being injury free.

•And most damaging, Peterson miscalculated by a year the right time to blow up the roster and usher in a youth movement.

All of that misreading, miscalculating and special friendship with players who have never won the Chiefs a single playoff game created the chaos that has turned the franchise into a laughingstock.

Look, if the Patriots give Tom Brady and Tedy Bruschi one contract extension too many, I’ll understand it and totally forgive Bill Belichick. If the Colts let Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison overstay their usefulness, it’s defensible. Those players won championships for their franchises.

But the NFL is the league that dumps Joe Montana and Jerry Rice, runs Brett Favre to New York and lets Joe Namath hobble around Los Angeles and O.J. Simpson limp across San Francisco’s Golden Gate Bridge.

Meanwhile, Carl Peterson tosses golden parachutes to his favorite draft picks and free-agent signings over drinks at the Capital Grille.

It’s unprofessional. It’s irresponsible. It’s a good-old-boy network in a league that requires a ruthless disloyalty when it comes to money.

You know what used to irritate Marty Schottenheimer? Every time he tried to take a hard-line disciplinary stance with Derrick Thomas, the Golden Child would run to his adopted father (Peterson) for protection.

Gonzalez has spent the last two weeks upset that he didn’t get to break the tight-end record at home against the Broncos. He had his family in town. The Chiefs were going to stop the game and have a quick ceremony.

Who do you think planned the on-field party, Herm or Carl? Who do you think raised Tony’s expectations for a hey-look-at-me moment and set up potential conflict between star player and head coach, Herm or Carl?

The way the club is currently managed, a coaching staff filled with Vince Lombardi, Tom Landry, Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh, Don Shula and Hank Stram couldn’t lead the Chiefs to .500.

**dirk digler** · 10-15-2008, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triple

tony's contract extension predates Herm and this rebuild business, does it not

It does and in response to your previous post I totally agree with you. Carl and Herm had a deal and then Carl changed his mind to **** Tony. This is a BS way to run an organization.

Quote:

"When I signed my deal a few years ago, it was to end my career here. But I also felt we had real potential, I didn't see us ending up with a rebuilding effort. But once they cleaned house, and when they traded Jared (Allen), it was clearly to rebuild.

**Rausch** · 10-15-2008, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Carl deserves to be fired immediately for hiring Herm in the first place.

Carl certainly doesn't deserve the blame for all of the recent personnel decisions. We've seen Carl bring in very different types of players depending on who was the head coach. Carl certainly listens to his head coach and tries to bring in the guys the coach asks for. When Gun was head coach the team brought in bigger physical players. Vermeil came on and he got his OL, QB and HB and GROB got his players. Gun came in as DC and got his infamous wish list (a year after saying he didn't need anybody it was just the scheme that wasn't working). Herm came aboard and got rid of the Vermeil offensive players and he brought in a bunch of old Jets and put his stamp on the drafts.

No doubt Carl apparently botched the trade of Tony yesterday, but at the end of the day nobody held a gun to Tony's head when he reupped his contract. He knew the direction of the team and he knew Herms ways when he signed on the dotted line.

The entire organization needed to be blown up when DV retired. Clark had the opportunity to do so when his dad passed away, but like his father Clark has sat passively by the first two years and bought into Herm and Carl.

Each and every person in the organization is to blame from the owner on down.

Agreed. New HC should lead to a new direction and building the team that guy's way just like we did with DV and Marty.

If not for a french door for a RT, a porcelain QB, and a cluless HC the rebuild wouldn't be this far behind. Herm has drafted some damned good talent.

A lot is there. I don't know if they just don't buy into him and his philosopy or what but what we do have should be showing better results. It's the fumblings of Carl mixed in with the "If I say you're OK it means you're not OK" nonesense of Herm on top.

And DV had "his" guys. DV would fight to the end for Dante, Green, etc.

Who do you feel Herm would do that for? Who are "Herm's Guys?"

Short answer: NO ONE...

Chiefnj2 · 10-15-2008, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

It does and in response to your previous post I totally agree with you. Carl and Herm had a deal and then Carl changed his mind to **** Tony. This is a BS way to run an organization.

No it doesn't. Tony extended his contract in January 2007. That was after Herm's first year and after the loss to the Colts in the playoffs.

**Rausch** · 10-15-2008, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

No it doesn't. Tony extended his contract in January 2007. That was after Herm's first year and after the loss to the Colts in the playoffs.

Oddly enough that's when the elderly talent started to bail...

PastorMikH · 10-15-2008, 07:48 AM

I'm actually happy that Carl put his foot down and said no on this one.

Chiefnj2 · 10-15-2008, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PastorMikH

I'm actually happy that Carl put his foot down and said no on this one.

What do the Chiefs gain from it? Gonzalez will play out this year. He's certainly unhappy so who knows how productive he'll be. He'll certainly request a trade in the offseason and possibly retire without the Chiefs receiving any compensation or less than a 3rd round pick.

**Rausch** · 10-15-2008, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

What do the Chiefs gain from it? Gonzalez will play out this year. He's certainly unhappy so who knows how productive he'll be. He'll certainly request a trade in the offseason and possibly retire without the Chiefs receiving any compensation or less than a 3rd round pick.

So no matter the player use the Madden 2x strategy of trading them off before the year they retire so you get something?

The player retiring as a Chief means nothing?...

**morphius** · 10-15-2008, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PastorMikH

I'm actually happy that Carl put his foot down and said no on this one.

Yeah, giving up Tony for what basically is a 4th rounder really doesn't appeal to me, I think I'd get more enjoyment watching him plat for the next 2 years in red and gold, than waiting for a very high 3rd rounder maybe pan out.

Chiefnj2 · 10-15-2008, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

The player retiring as a Chief means nothing?...

Apparently is doesn't mean much to the player.

**dirk digler** · 10-15-2008, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

No it doesn't. Tony extended his contract in January 2007. That was after Herm's first year and after the loss to the Colts in the playoffs.

According to Tony when he signed they said nothing about rebuilding.

Last year they didn't rebuild at all they just tried to plug holes and get to the playoffs.

So Tony was right.

**HemiEd** · 10-15-2008, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

Herm and Carl were engaged in a fist fight and Jason just dumped a bag of knives on the floor. I hope this escalates.

Handguns, Jason, we need handguns!

Chiefnj2 · 10-15-2008, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

According to Tony when he signed they said nothing about rebuilding.

Last year they didn't rebuild at all they just tried to plug holes and get to the playoffs.

So Tony was right.

Tony extended his contract after Herm's first year. Toward the end of the year and after the playoff loss to the Colts where the Chiefs offense consisted of repeatedly running LJ into 8 man defensive fronts guys like LJ, Tony and Green all came out and made comments about the questionable play calling and direction of the offense. Tony was on notice.

Tony would also have to blind to see that the team didn't need to be rebuilt. The offense was getting old and Herm had already begun to bring in players that would buy into Herm's drivel.

The Chiefs have been rebuilding for three years. You don't need to play 10 rookies to begin rebuilding. Herm has given his draft picks and free agent signings plenty of playing time from day one.

**Rausch** · 10-15-2008, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Apparently is doesn't mean much to the player.

My feelings and memories win out when it comes to drafted life-long Chiefs. Hands down. Every time.

Hell, isn't that why we're here arguing?...

**Rausch** · 10-15-2008, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Tony would also have to blind to see that the team didn't need to be rebuilt. The offense was getting old and Herm had already begun to bring in players that would buy into Herm's drivel.

The Chiefs have been rebuilding for three years. You don't need to play 10 rookies to begin rebuilding. Herm has given his draft picks and free agent signings plenty of playing time from day one.

Tony was nuts-deep in a contract he really couldn't wiggle out of. He was stuck.

And frankly, I think he wanted it to work. He WANTED to win in KC, taste some playoff wins, take a swing at a ring.

Only it's pretty clear now it's going to be a LONG WHILE before that happens....

**HemiEd** · 10-15-2008, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

Clark is a smart dude. I also think he knows he has to make his own bones in the NFL. His father was respected for 1) creating the AFL; 2) winning a SB; and 3) playing a big hand in the merger that created the modern day NFL. Clark hasn't done jack shit. He'll get no respect in club 32 until he does.

I think he cleans house, at least on the football side of the organization.

Please be true, sooner rather than later.

10-14-2008, 11:00 PM
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $840478	WHITLOCK - Herm is innocent, Carl is evil http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/841754.html In the minutes after the Chiefs failed to unload unhappy tight end Tony Gonzalez, Herm Edwards sent a clear, concise, fair and accurate message Tuesday afternoon: The aborted fire sale and current mess at Arrowhead Stadium are not his creation or a reflection of his coaching methods. When asked by radio reporter Rhonda Moss what Gonzalez’s trade request said about Carl Peterson, the Chiefs organization and its current head coach, Edwards — perhaps unintentionally — summarized his position on the whole affair. “It doesn’t say anything about me,” Edwards responded. “It doesn’t say one thing about me. It has nothing to do with me. You need to ask the player that. That’s not for me to answer. I’m not going to answer for a football player. I don’t have to do that. I answer for the decisions that I make, what comes out of my mouth.” Edwards couldn’t have been more transparent. Kansas City’s inability to retrieve reasonable compensation for Gonzalez is not Herm’s fault. Larry Johnson’s third assault case and possible suspension (by the league or the Chiefs) are not Herm’s fault. The lack of league-wide interest in the services of Damon Huard, Patrick Surtain and Donnie Edwards is not Herm’s fault. You can blame Herm for Kansas City’s 5-16 record over the past two seasons, but it is unfair to make him culpable for the sad reality that things are likely to get worse before they get significantly better for the Chiefs. Carl Peterson is responsible for that. Much will be made of Herm’s apparently smug and dismissive tone at Tuesday’s news conference. He said he hadn’t spoken to Gonzalez about the situation and probably wouldn’t. Edwards said he hadn’t spoken to Larry Johnson about his latest off-field mishap. With his team sitting at 1-4 and reeling from an embarrassing loss at Carolina, Edwards is focused on controlling what he can control and leaving the rest in God’s hands or the people responsible for the problem. It’s a prudent approach, if you believe the truth will set you free. It’s no secret that the Chiefs are an organization burning in flames, and Edwards seems to be getting more and more comfortable letting everyone see the gas, matches and electric fans sitting on Carl Peterson’s desk. Let’s look at this objectively, shall we? Peterson has run this ballclub like a private fraternity. His special pledges — Gonzalez, Johnson, Priest Holmes and, to a lesser degree, Donnie Edwards — have been rewarded with contracts that haven’t necessarily been in the best interest of the football team. •Peterson misread Gonzalez’s ability to deal with a rebuilding process. •Peterson misread Johnson’s ability to handle success, money, leadership and a 400-carry season. •Peterson misread Holmes’ desire to continue playing football after recovering from a hip injury by any means necessary. •Peterson misread Donnie Edwards’ ability to remain healthy after more than a decade of being injury free. •And most damaging, Peterson miscalculated by a year the right time to blow up the roster and usher in a youth movement. All of that misreading, miscalculating and special friendship with players who have never won the Chiefs a single playoff game created the chaos that has turned the franchise into a laughingstock. Look, if the Patriots give Tom Brady and Tedy Bruschi one contract extension too many, I’ll understand it and totally forgive Bill Belichick. If the Colts let Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison overstay their usefulness, it’s defensible. Those players won championships for their franchises. But the NFL is the league that dumps Joe Montana and Jerry Rice, runs Brett Favre to New York and lets Joe Namath hobble around Los Angeles and O.J. Simpson limp across San Francisco’s Golden Gate Bridge. Meanwhile, Carl Peterson tosses golden parachutes to his favorite draft picks and free-agent signings over drinks at the Capital Grille. It’s unprofessional. It’s irresponsible. It’s a good-old-boy network in a league that requires a ruthless disloyalty when it comes to money. You know what used to irritate Marty Schottenheimer? Every time he tried to take a hard-line disciplinary stance with Derrick Thomas, the Golden Child would run to his adopted father (Peterson) for protection. Gonzalez has spent the last two weeks upset that he didn’t get to break the tight-end record at home against the Broncos. He had his family in town. The Chiefs were going to stop the game and have a quick ceremony. Who do you think planned the on-field party, Herm or Carl? Who do you think raised Tony’s expectations for a hey-look-at-me moment and set up potential conflict between star player and head coach, Herm or Carl? The way the club is currently managed, a coaching staff filled with Vince Lombardi, Tom Landry, Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh, Don Shula and Hank Stram couldn’t lead the Chiefs to .500.
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10-15-2008, 07:48 AM	#65
PastorMikH Will KC ever be better? Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Land of Red Dirt & Necks Casino cash: $9905087	I'm actually happy that Carl put his foot down and said no on this one. __________________
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