Go on the record: Who do you want as GM and Head Coach?

[chiefzilla1501]

What a surprise, we disagree again. Canning a head coach isn't as simple as counting wins and losses. By that argument, Jeff Fisher should have been canned in the middle of 2006 when he won only 9 games out of 37. That's 1 win out of every 5--equally as bad.

I think Herm's firing is a foregone conclusion and I think it's a good decision. But I also think he got a raw deal and it's because there are those like you that think that any team could be coached out of a wet paper bag. Jeff Fisher is an amazing coach that proved that there is no remedy for a team in the middle of a rebuild. That is not even slightly saying that Herm Edwards is Jeff Fisher, but it does say that good coaches often struggle to win games when the talent on the team sucks.

And make no mistake that Carl Peterson's treatment of the word "rebuild" as if it were a 4-letter word is the main reason we are where we are today. He watched the team get old, he ****ed up draft after draft between 1999-2005, and we are hearing a lot of chatter that he is the main reason the team didn't start the rebuild until 2008 when it was 2 years too late.

The word "rebuild" is more than appropriate. It is what a team must do when your front office does such a lousy job managing the team that you wake up in 2006 and there are a handful of good players left on your roster. Good teams don't overhaul their roster--those that do, like Tennessee and Tampa, overcome a few losing seasons before they start winning. Good teams never have to rebuild because their rosters are so deep from years of good drafting and smart personnel moves.

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

Trust ownership?

This ownership stuck with the same man for 20 seasons to run this organization.

The moral of the story is this league is a production based business regardless of a rebuild. Herm has won 6 games out of 30. Sit back and think about those numbers for 2 seconds. 1 win out of every 5.

If this GM says he wants to go in another direction, it shouldn't be too hard of a sell to Clark considering just about every stat that matters points in the direction of Herm getting canned.

I'm tired of the word rebuilding too. It's rebuilding when your team sucks. Other teams win with completely overhauled rosters. What it comes down to is superior coaching.

[The Bad Guy]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

What a surprise, we disagree again. Canning a head coach isn't as simple as counting wins and losses. By that argument, Jeff Fisher should have been canned in the middle of 2006 when he won only 9 games out of 37. That's 1 win out of every 5--equally as bad.

I think Herm's firing is a foregone conclusion and I think it's a good decision. But I also think he got a raw deal and it's because there are those like you that think that any team could be coached out of a wet paper bag. Jeff Fisher is an amazing coach that proved that there is no remedy for a team in the middle of a rebuild. That is not even slightly saying that Herm Edwards is Jeff Fisher, but it does say that good coaches often struggle to win games when the talent on the team sucks.

And make no mistake that Carl Peterson's treatment of the word "rebuild" as if it were a 4-letter word is the main reason we are where we are today. He watched the team get old, he ****ed up draft after draft between 1999-2005, and we are hearing a lot of chatter that he is the main reason the team didn't start the rebuild until 2008 when it was 2 years too late.

The word "rebuild" is more than appropriate. It is what a team must do when your front office does such a lousy job managing the team that you wake up in 2006 and there are a handful of good players left on your roster. Good teams don't overhaul their roster--those that do, like Tennessee and Tampa, overcome a few losing seasons before they start winning. Good teams never have to rebuild because their rosters are so deep from years of good drafting and smart personnel moves.

Jeff Fisher took the Titans to the Super Bowl. He had success in this league. He earned the right to go through some rough years with Titans.

What the **** has Herm done to earn a free pass.

Wins and losses are the only thing I give a shit about as a fan of a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 15 years.

[chiefzilla1501]

You are again missing the point.

I said that when a team is enduring a rebuild, even the best coaches in the league like Jeff Fisher struggle to win games.

There are lots of reasons to blame Herm Edwards for the problems in KC. But you absolutely cannot ignore the lemon of a team that was handed to him in 2005. And that was the result of front office mismanagement that happened well before Herm came into KC.

Pointing to wins and losses doesn't account for the roster he was given to work with. Blame Herm for poor game management and maybe not getting the most out of guys like McBride and Hali, but don't blame him for the fact that Peterson's mismanagement of the Chiefs led to 7 years of failed drafts and the oldest roster in football.

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

Jeff Fisher took the Titans to the Super Bowl. He had success in this league. He earned the right to go through some rough years with Titans.

What the **** has Herm done to earn a free pass.

Wins and losses are the only thing I give a shit about as a fan of a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 15 years.

[The Bad Guy]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You are again missing the point.

I said that when a team is enduring a rebuild, even the best coaches in the league like Jeff Fisher struggle to win games.

There are lots of reasons to blame Herm Edwards for the problems in KC. But you absolutely cannot ignore the lemon of a team that was handed to him in 2005. And that was the result of front office mismanagement that happened well before Herm came into KC.

Pointing to wins and losses doesn't account for the roster he was given to work with. Blame Herm for poor game management and maybe not getting the most out of guys like McBride and Hali, but don't blame him for the fact that Peterson's mismanagement of the Chiefs led to 7 years of failed drafts and the oldest roster in football.

The lemon of a team that was handed to him? You act like this job was forced on Herm Edwards. He ****ing knew the team he was inheriting. He knew the problems that existed here. He worked here when Carl was here, so he should have known the person he was dealing with.

These are all the problems he BROUGHT onto himself.

I must have missed the memo where Herm was held at gunpoint to leave NY to come here.

[chiefzilla1501]

Yes, it was probably a bad decision on his part. But then, given the amount of control Peterson gave Vermeil, he probably expected to be afforded the same luxury.

It's been pretty much common knowledge that Herm wanted to rebuild and Peterson resisted every step of the way.

Had Peterson not stood in the way, this team would have been blown up in 2005 and we would be three steps ahead now than we currently are.

I think Herm is an 8-8 or a 9-7 coach at best right now. That's not good enough. And I'd be okay with him being fired on that premise. But I don't think he deserves nearly the amount of criticism he gets for screw-ups that were made by the front office, particularly ones that he fought against.

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

The lemon of a team that was handed to him? You act like this job was forced on Herm Edwards. He ****ing knew the team he was inheriting. He knew the problems that existed here. He worked here when Carl was here, so he should have known the person he was dealing with.

These are all the problems he BROUGHT onto himself.

I must have missed the memo where Herm was held at gunpoint to leave NY to come here.