Walterfootball.com Mock Drafts - Page 6

**The Franchise** · 11-10-2008, 03:06 PM

November 6th 2008.

1st round - Kansas City Chiefs: Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas
If you're not a Chiefs fan, chances are you won't know this. OK, guess how many sacks Kansas City's defense has as a whole this season.

Fifteen? Way off. Ten? Nope. Five? Not even!

The Chiefs have four sacks on the year! Four freaking sacks! They foolishly traded away Jared Allen prior to the 2008 Draft, while moving Tamba Hali to right end failed miserably. Hali, now back at left end, needs a dominant pass-rusher across from him to once again play at his 2007 level.

That man can be Brian Orakpo. Through nine games, Orakpo has 13.5 tackles for loss and 8.5 sacks, as he's established himself as the premier defensive end in this draft class. Kansas City's young defense would greatly benefit from having him rushing the opposing quarterback.

Quarterback was an option, but Tyler Thigpen has played extremely well the past two weeks, so the Chiefs could have something with him.

2nd round - Kansas City Chiefs: Brandon Spikes, ILB, Florida
Napoleon Harris was Kansas City's middle linebacker when the season began. That failed miserably, as Harris was cut a few weeks ago. Pat Thomas took Harris' spot, and based on Kansas City's defensive rankings - click here for accurate NFL Run, Pass Defensive Rankings - it hasn't exactly worked out too well.

3rd round - Kansas City Chiefs: Derrick Williams, WR, Penn State
If Tyler Thigpen keeps improving and proves to be Kansas City's quarterback of the future, he'll need another receiver to throw to besides Dwayne Bowe. Bowe and Derrick Williams would be an awesome receiver combination, assuming the latter pans out.

Mecca · 01-28-2009, 09:42 PM

......

Why do I find myself having the same argument everyday?

Yea Dmitrov was from the Pats too so he was gonna take a late round QB, oh shit wait he took a QB with his first pick...

All those things you just said have been argued a 100 times do I have to do it again? You can draft 6th round QB's when you have Drew Bledsoe who at the time was their franchise...and same with Cassell when you have Brady they didn't take either of those players thinking they'd be the future they took shots at late picks at a position where they already had a player..is this hard to understand?

And if you even mentioning taking a OT with the 3rd pick I'm gonna go apeshit on you.

ChiefsCountry · 01-28-2009, 09:44 PM

jeffp12 · 01-28-2009, 09:46 PM

No I got that. But they were drafting for a team that was already winning with a successful quarterback and line and defense. Taking a QB very high is silly when you have no need for one, so you take chances in later rounds hoping to get a gem. But the Chiefs have glaring needs in the linebacking corps, the D-Line, offensive line, and depending on the LJ situation at RB and at FB. So why not draft at those glaring needs and take a QB or two in the late rounds. IF you don't find a gem there, then try again next year, the chiefs aren't in any hurry to win. They are building a team from scratch basically. They have plenty of time to get a QB, why do they have to do that very first?

**DaneMcCloud** · 01-28-2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffp12

Terrell Suggs went 10th overall in 03.
Seau went 5th in 90
Derrick Thomas went 4th in 89
Peter Boulware and James Farrior both went in the top 8 in 1997. So if you can pick Derrick Thomas or Junior Seau or Terrell Suggs in the top 5, you pass because you don't pick Lb's in the top 5?

Troy Aikman went #1 overall in 1989.

Thomas went fourth.

Who has the three Super Bowl rings?

JFC.

ChiefsCountry · 01-28-2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffp12

They have plenty of time to get a QB, why do they have to do that very first?

jeffp12 · 01-28-2009, 09:56 PM

If it's Peyton Manning or Dan Marino, then of course you take him. But Sanchez only started 1 year. How is his track record better than Matt Leinart's and look how well Leinart has done. Troy Aikman has rings, but he also had a hell of a good defense. How many super bowls did Dan Marino win? They had Dan Marino for a decade and a half and never won one because they never had a killer defense. We can argue all we want, there are tons of examples of busts from all positions with better players taken later. I think the real question is of priorities. Do you want to build offense or defense? Defense wins championships, so I want some defense. And if we can't do great on defense, then go Offensive line. Peyton Manning finally won a super bowl once they got the Defense going really well. The giants beat the patriots with Eli Manning managing games, and with a solid running game. There are not a lot of examples of teams winning because of a great passing game and a mediocre defense compared to great defenses and a mediocre passing game.

ChiefsCountry · 01-28-2009, 09:59 PM

Now is the perfect time to get the QB. You never know when you will be in the top 5 again to select one. We have the LT, we have the WR, get the QB. A defense can be built easier than an offense, next year is loaded with defense prospects. Its the perfect time, I dont know what is so ****ing hard to understand for you dipshits.

**DaneMcCloud** · 01-28-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffp12

If it's Peyton Manning or Dan Marino, then of course you take him. But Sanchez only started 1 year. How is his track record better than Matt Leinart's and look how well Leinart has done.

Leinart was drafted for a different offense. Dennis Green ran the WCO, which is perfectly suited for Leinart. Haley runs a "long-ball" offense. Leinart will be a successful NFL QB. Keep in mind, he's playing behind a likely Hall of Famer. He's not playing behind Jon Kitna.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffp12

Troy Aikman has rings, but he also had a hell of a good defense.

Wrong.

Troy Aikman is one of the most accurate passers in NFL AND he's a Hall of Famer. How many of their defensive players that you claim are so great are in the Hall? Aikman, Irvin and Smith are in the Hall and were part of an elite offense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffp12

How many super bowls did Dan Marino win? They had Dan Marino for a decade and a half and never won one because they never had a killer defense.

Wrong.

Dan Marino, once again, is in the Hall of Fame. The reason that Marino never won a Super Bowl is simple. First, he faced Joe Montana and the loaded SF 49ers in 1984. Secondly, they could never find a running back (therefore a running game) to compliment their passing game. Hence, no Super Bowl. Their defenses were at times very good to great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffp12

We can argue all we want, there are tons of examples of busts from all positions with better players taken later.

NEVER pass on the best available athlete out of "fear". That's just plain stupid, especially when there's a possible Franchise Quarterback sitting there when you choose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffp12

I think the real question is of priorities. Do you want to build offense or defense? Defense wins championships, so I want some defense.

Wrong.

The Chiefs have THE MOST talent-depleted roster in the NFL. Outside of Left Tackle, the Chiefs should take the best available athlete with the third overall pick. PERIOD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffp12

And if we can't do great on defense, then go Offensive line.

Wrong.

If the Chiefs chose another Left Tackle, they'd have over $75 million dollars wrapped up in the Left Tackle position. That's complete lunacy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffp12

Peyton Manning finally won a super bowl once they got the Defense going really well.

Wrong.

The Colts won their Championship due to Peyton Manning, Reggie Wayne, Joseph Addai and Marvin Harrison. Their defense stunk but played well enough for them not to lose. Their defense still stinks, which is why they went out of the playoffs in round one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffp12

The giants beat the patriots with Eli Manning managing games, and with a solid running game. There are not a lot of examples of teams winning because of a great passing game and a mediocre defense compared to great defenses and a mediocre passing game.

The Giants beat the Patriots because Eli Manning (their FRANCHISE QB) played an absolutely flawless game. Period. The Patriots win that game 8 times out of 10. The Giants had a great defense that year but that couldn't save them in 2008 because the offense, mainly Manning, reverted.

ChiefsCountry · 01-28-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Leinart was drafted for a different offense. Dennis Green ran the WCO, which is perfectly suited for Leinart. Haley runs a "long-ball" offense. Leinart will be a successful NFL QB. Keep in mind, he's playing behind a likely Hall of Famer. He's not playing behind Jon Kitna.

Wrong.

Troy Aikman is one of the most accurate passers in NFL AND he's a Hall of Famer. How many of their defensive players that you claim are so great are in the Hall? Aikman, Irvin and Smith are in the Hall and were part of an elite offense.

Wrong.

Dan Marino, once again, is in the Hall of Fame. The reason that Marino never won a Super Bowl is simple. First, he faced Joe Montana and the loaded SF 49ers in 1984. Secondly, they could never find a running back (therefore a running game) to compliment their passing game. Hence, no Super Bowl. Their defenses were at times very good to great.

NEVER pass on the best available athlete out of "fear". That's just plain stupid, especially when there's a possible Franchise Quarterback sitting there when you choose.

Wrong.

The Chiefs have THE MOST talent-depleted roster in the NFL. Outside of Left Tackle, the Chiefs should take the best available athlete with the third overall pick. PERIOD.

Wrong.

If the Chiefs chose another Left Tackle, they'd have over $75 million dollars wrapped up in the Left Tackle position. That's complete lunacy.

Wrong.

The Colts won their Championship due to Peyton Manning, Reggie Wayne, Joseph Addai and Marvin Harrison. Their defense stunk but played well enough for them not to lose. Their defense still stinks, which is why they went out of the playoffs in round one.

The Giants beat the Patriots because Eli Manning (their FRANCHISE QB) played an absolutely flawless game. Period. The Patriots win that game 8 times out of 10. The Giants had a great defense that year but that couldn't save them in 2008 because the offense, mainly Manning, reverted.

Great post.

jeffp12 · 01-28-2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Now is the perfect time to get the QB. You never know when you will be in the top 5 again to select one. We have the LT, we have the WR, get the QB. A defense can be built easier than an offense, next year is loaded with defense prospects. Its the perfect time, I dont know what is so ****ing hard to understand for you dipshits.

Again, fast with the insults. There is very little certainty in things like this. Pretending to have all the answers is a clear sign that you don't fully grasp the situation.

Look at super bowl record.

Last year, Eli Manning won, was a top pick, except that the Defense was clearly the best part of the giants, they stopped the patriots, and Eli was a game manager. And don't forget that the Giants had run Kurt Warner out of town in favor of Manning. Had they really given Warner a chance, do you think they still could have won the super bowl? I do. They got him easily in free agency.

Two years ago Peyton and the Colts won the super bowl, here's a good example of a #1 pick paying off.

Then the Steelers, Ben was picked late in the first round, also bumps up the drafting QB idea, though again, Ben was a game manager, completed only 9 passes in the super bowl, they ran the ball well and have a great defense. I'd much rather pick Troy Polamalu than Ben Roethlisberger.

Then we have 2 Tom Brady Patriots, picked up in the 7th round. The patriots until last season were a run first, pass second, play great defense kind of a team, and they won 3 super bowls, including the upset of the high flying rams with an amazing offense.

Between there we have the Brad Johnson led Buccaneers with a great defense, John Lynch, Warren Sapp, Simeon Rice, Derrick Brooks, etc.

Then in 2000 you have the Trent Dilfer led Ravens with an amazing defense.

in 99 you have the Rams amazing offense winning a super bowl, though with undrafted Kurt Warner. People forget how good their defense was too, it wasnt dismal, it was till middle of the pack, and they had, by the way, Orlando Pace at LT

in 98 and 97 you have the John Elway Broncos winning back to back, however, you'll see that they did so with solid running game and solid defense, something the broncos lacked earlier in Elway's career.

in 96 you have the Favre led Packers, Brett was a 2nd round pick and then traded. The packers had a solid defense including Reggie White.

If you go back farther you get lots of Cowboys and 49ers, who had top QB's but also had great Defenses and ran the ball really well.

Sure a great QB helps, but is only a piece of the puzzle. There are many many examples of teams with solid running games and great defenses that do very well without a great qb, but a team with a great qb and a mediocre defense doesn't have a great track record.

Look at the Redskins of the 80's, They won 3 super bowls with different QBs, the Giants won 2 super bowls with 2 different qbs.

The consistent element of great teams are great defenses and solid running games. The great quarterback is much less of a necessity.

Look at the chiefs of the 90's, yeah they didn't win much in the postseason, I'll give you that, but that had a solid defense, they pounded the run and they had the best winning percentage of anyone in the 90's. Look at the Steelers over the past 15 years. A great defense, a solid running game, and a series of game managing quarterbacks and they've gone to 3 super bowls.

I'm looking at this track record and deciding that I'd rather focus on the defense than the offense, and especially the quarterback.

jeffp12 · 01-28-2009, 10:23 PM

Do you really think the giants won the super bowl last year because of Eli Manning? They faced the BEST offense of all time and held them to 14 points. The Patriots defense wasn't that great that year, their offense just blew people away.

And The colts won the year before because they got their defense turned around. That super bowl was played in the rain and they ran the ball most of the game. They won because they played good defense and didnt' turn the ball over. Saying they won because of Manning Addai Harrison and Wayne is silly. Bob Sanders needs to be listed much higher. Addai Sanders MAnning....

ChiefsCountry · 01-28-2009, 10:24 PM

Get the QB first, then build the defense. All the dyntasy teams got the QB in their first year - Steelers, 49ers, Cowboys, Patriots. Get Stafford or Sanchez and then build the rest of the team. Draft defense with next 6 picks, I could care less how they do it. A franchise QB is what this team needs the most, more than anything else. We are in position to do it.

**DaneMcCloud** · 01-28-2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffp12

Do you really think the giants won the super bowl last year because of Eli Manning? They faced the BEST offense of all time and held them to 14 points. The Patriots defense wasn't that great that year, their offense just blew people away.

And The colts won the year before because they got their defense turned around. That super bowl was played in the rain and they ran the ball most of the game. They won because they played good defense and didnt' turn the ball over. Saying they won because of Manning Addai Harrison and Wayne is silly. Bob Sanders needs to be listed much higher. Addai Sanders MAnning....

Yeah, because as we all know, without Bob Sanders, the Bears would have put up 40.

ChiefsCountry · 01-28-2009, 10:29 PM

Colts defense sure did beat some high powered offenses during that run - Chiefs, Ravens and Bears.

jeffp12 · 01-28-2009, 10:32 PM

How's this for a stat:

The quarterback who leads the league in passing yards in the regular season has never ever won the super bowl in the same season. Not Once. How about Passing Defense or Rushing defense or rushing offense? plenty of examples.

You cite me an example of a team with a quarterback drafted high that carried a team to super bowl victory without an awesome defense or solid running game. There are plenty of Trent Dilfers and Brad Johnsons available in free agency that can manage an offense and hand the ball off and win you super bowls. Marino never did that. It takes a complete team to win a super bowl, and a complete team doesnt necessarily mean a top quarterback, just someone who is smart and doesn't turn the ball over too much. They can be found in free agency, in the later rounds, off the bench, but great defenses and great running games are more often built on years of drafting a large pool of talented players.

11-10-2008, 03:06 PM
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2065047	Walterfootball.com Mock Drafts November 6th 2008. 1st round - Kansas City Chiefs: Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas If you're not a Chiefs fan, chances are you won't know this. OK, guess how many sacks Kansas City's defense has as a whole this season. Fifteen? Way off. Ten? Nope. Five? Not even! The Chiefs have four sacks on the year! Four freaking sacks! They foolishly traded away Jared Allen prior to the 2008 Draft, while moving Tamba Hali to right end failed miserably. Hali, now back at left end, needs a dominant pass-rusher across from him to once again play at his 2007 level. That man can be Brian Orakpo. Through nine games, Orakpo has 13.5 tackles for loss and 8.5 sacks, as he's established himself as the premier defensive end in this draft class. Kansas City's young defense would greatly benefit from having him rushing the opposing quarterback. Quarterback was an option, but Tyler Thigpen has played extremely well the past two weeks, so the Chiefs could have something with him. 2nd round - Kansas City Chiefs: Brandon Spikes, ILB, Florida Napoleon Harris was Kansas City's middle linebacker when the season began. That failed miserably, as Harris was cut a few weeks ago. Pat Thomas took Harris' spot, and based on Kansas City's defensive rankings - click here for accurate NFL Run, Pass Defensive Rankings - it hasn't exactly worked out too well. 3rd round - Kansas City Chiefs: Derrick Williams, WR, Penn State If Tyler Thigpen keeps improving and proves to be Kansas City's quarterback of the future, he'll need another receiver to throw to besides Dwayne Bowe. Bowe and Derrick Williams would be an awesome receiver combination, assuming the latter pans out.
Posts: 92,316

01-28-2009, 09:42 PM	#76
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-742950	...... Why do I find myself having the same argument everyday? Yea Dmitrov was from the Pats too so he was gonna take a late round QB, oh shit wait he took a QB with his first pick... All those things you just said have been argued a 100 times do I have to do it again? You can draft 6th round QB's when you have Drew Bledsoe who at the time was their franchise...and same with Cassell when you have Brady they didn't take either of those players thinking they'd be the future they took shots at late picks at a position where they already had a player..is this hard to understand? And if you even mentioning taking a OT with the 3rd pick I'm gonna go apeshit on you.
Posts: 115,382

01-28-2009, 09:44 PM	#77
ChiefsCountry The Insider Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks Casino cash: $-1631248
Posts: 52,179

01-28-2009, 09:46 PM	#78
jeffp12 Starter Join Date: Jan 2009 Casino cash: $10004900	No I got that. But they were drafting for a team that was already winning with a successful quarterback and line and defense. Taking a QB very high is silly when you have no need for one, so you take chances in later rounds hoping to get a gem. But the Chiefs have glaring needs in the linebacking corps, the D-Line, offensive line, and depending on the LJ situation at RB and at FB. So why not draft at those glaring needs and take a QB or two in the late rounds. IF you don't find a gem there, then try again next year, the chiefs aren't in any hurry to win. They are building a team from scratch basically. They have plenty of time to get a QB, why do they have to do that very first?
Posts: 56

01-28-2009, 09:56 PM	#81
jeffp12 Starter Join Date: Jan 2009 Casino cash: $10004900	If it's Peyton Manning or Dan Marino, then of course you take him. But Sanchez only started 1 year. How is his track record better than Matt Leinart's and look how well Leinart has done. Troy Aikman has rings, but he also had a hell of a good defense. How many super bowls did Dan Marino win? They had Dan Marino for a decade and a half and never won one because they never had a killer defense. We can argue all we want, there are tons of examples of busts from all positions with better players taken later. I think the real question is of priorities. Do you want to build offense or defense? Defense wins championships, so I want some defense. And if we can't do great on defense, then go Offensive line. Peyton Manning finally won a super bowl once they got the Defense going really well. The giants beat the patriots with Eli Manning managing games, and with a solid running game. There are not a lot of examples of teams winning because of a great passing game and a mediocre defense compared to great defenses and a mediocre passing game.
Posts: 56

01-28-2009, 09:59 PM	#82
ChiefsCountry The Insider Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks Casino cash: $-1631248	Now is the perfect time to get the QB. You never know when you will be in the top 5 again to select one. We have the LT, we have the WR, get the QB. A defense can be built easier than an offense, next year is loaded with defense prospects. Its the perfect time, I dont know what is so ****ing hard to understand for you dipshits.
Posts: 52,179

01-28-2009, 10:23 PM	#86
jeffp12 Starter Join Date: Jan 2009 Casino cash: $10004900	Do you really think the giants won the super bowl last year because of Eli Manning? They faced the BEST offense of all time and held them to 14 points. The Patriots defense wasn't that great that year, their offense just blew people away. And The colts won the year before because they got their defense turned around. That super bowl was played in the rain and they ran the ball most of the game. They won because they played good defense and didnt' turn the ball over. Saying they won because of Manning Addai Harrison and Wayne is silly. Bob Sanders needs to be listed much higher. Addai Sanders MAnning....
Posts: 56

01-28-2009, 10:24 PM	#87
ChiefsCountry The Insider Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks Casino cash: $-1631248	Get the QB first, then build the defense. All the dyntasy teams got the QB in their first year - Steelers, 49ers, Cowboys, Patriots. Get Stafford or Sanchez and then build the rest of the team. Draft defense with next 6 picks, I could care less how they do it. A franchise QB is what this team needs the most, more than anything else. We are in position to do it.
Posts: 52,179

01-28-2009, 10:29 PM	#89
ChiefsCountry The Insider Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks Casino cash: $-1631248	Colts defense sure did beat some high powered offenses during that run - Chiefs, Ravens and Bears.
Posts: 52,179

01-28-2009, 10:32 PM	#90
jeffp12 Starter Join Date: Jan 2009 Casino cash: $10004900	How's this for a stat: The quarterback who leads the league in passing yards in the regular season has never ever won the super bowl in the same season. Not Once. How about Passing Defense or Rushing defense or rushing offense? plenty of examples. You cite me an example of a team with a quarterback drafted high that carried a team to super bowl victory without an awesome defense or solid running game. There are plenty of Trent Dilfers and Brad Johnsons available in free agency that can manage an offense and hand the ball off and win you super bowls. Marino never did that. It takes a complete team to win a super bowl, and a complete team doesnt necessarily mean a top quarterback, just someone who is smart and doesn't turn the ball over too much. They can be found in free agency, in the later rounds, off the bench, but great defenses and great running games are more often built on years of drafting a large pool of talented players.
Posts: 56