Is the "spread" the new 3-4?

[AustinChief]

I personally like the 3-4 for ONE very important reason... once you have found your NT the rest of your defense is much easier to find talent for than a 4-3 is.

With so many colleges running the spread and althetes like Tebow, McCoy and Bradford becoming the norm... will the NFL adjust to a hybrid (running a PURE spread wouldn't work) offense that relies heavily on the spread?

It seems to me that it carries the same advantage that the 3-4 does... easier to find talent for it.

Again, I am talking more of a pistol/wildcat/spread-flex with enough traditional under-center formations to keep it interesting.

Let's try to think of what's NEXT here and not just jump into the "never worked in the past" mode... the people that think like that are always a step behind the curve.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Your first question is your answer.
Thigpen can't read a defense. The O-line performed better in the traditional set than it did under the spread, even when we were getting the ball out ASAP.

I don't think the o-line performed well at all this year. We have a massively subpar line especially when it comes to run blocking. It is hard to NOT blame them for our running woes as opposed to just saying "can't run from the spread" over and over.

I agree that if you are 90%+ spread, you limit yourself severely... but I think a team with a SOLID O-line could easily run an 80/20 offense and be successful

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Your first question is your answer.
Thigpen can't read a defense. The O-line performed better in the traditional set than it did under the spread, even when we were getting the ball out ASAP.

Yikes dude!

I don't know about that...

I remember SEVERAL times we'd get the ball 1st and Goal at the 1 and I'd tell my friends (who didn't give a shit) that we wouldn't score because we are TERRIBLE inside the 5...

LJ isn't the best goal to go back in the league...never was, never will be...but he scored 20+ TD's a couple of seasons in a row so he knows how to find the end zone...but our line wasn't capable of opening up ANY holes...

He only averaged what he did because of the spread...how many long runs did LJ have last year?

I thought his best game of the season was against Oakland when he didn't really have any long runs, but he consistently fought for yards and gained 3+ at a time...

I'd rather take 3, 3, 3, 4, 3, 5, 3, 2, 3, 3, 5, 5 then 15, 1, 0, 0, -2, 25, 0, 1, 2, 1, 2, 0, 20...

I thought Thigpen's ability to run really kept the opposing DE's in check and that allowed our offensive line to look representable even though Niswanger/Jones/Smith/Taylor/McIntosh have no business being in the starting lineup.

I would like to see the Chiefs go QB #3...

But I won't call it the end of the world if we see what Thigpen has in 2009...

Worst case scenario?

He flops and we get another top 5 pick and we go QB in 2010...

I don't see another 2 win season in the horizon...we no longer have an inept coach...I think Haley will at least know how to finish games...if we had a coach like that last year we would have won 6 games.

The fact Gailey drew up an offense that allowed the Chiefs to compete last year was amazing to me...our defense had 10 sacks...10 friggin' sacks! We should have been the Lions last year...but somehow we competed week in and week out because of the spread offense.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

I disagree on the QBs getting creamed... a running or shotgun QB is more "prepared" for the hit than a QB in the pocket who often gets blindsided.

That's funny because the numbers will show you that QBs, including our own, get hit more often when they go to a spread than from a traditional drop under center.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

That's funny because the numbers will show you that QBs, including our own, get hit more often when they go to a spread than from a traditional drop under center.

True.

But most of the hits Thigpen took were the ones he took when he was running the ball.

Thigpen never really made any reads...he pretty much knew where he was throwing the ball before he took the snap. Obviously, this isn't really a good thing...but it did prevent him from taking hits when throwing the ball.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Hootie

Yikes dude!

I don't know about that...

I remember SEVERAL times we'd get the ball 1st and Goal at the 1 and I'd tell my friends (who didn't give a shit) that we wouldn't score because we are TERRIBLE inside the 5...

LJ isn't the best goal to go back in the league...never was, never will be...but he scored 20+ TD's a couple of seasons in a row so he knows how to find the end zone...but our line wasn't capable of opening up ANY holes...

He only averaged what he did because of the spread...how many long runs did LJ have last year?

I thought his best game of the season was against Oakland when he didn't really have any long runs, but he consistently fought for yards and gained 3+ at a time...

I'd rather take 3, 3, 3, 4, 3, 5, 3, 2, 3, 3, 5, 5 then 15, 1, 0, 0, -2, 25, 0, 1, 2, 1, 2, 0, 20...

I thought Thigpen's ability to run really kept the opposing DE's in check and that allowed our offensive line to look representable even though Niswanger/Jones/Smith/Taylor/McIntosh have no business being in the starting lineup.

I would like to see the Chiefs go QB #3...

But I won't call it the end of the world if we see what Thigpen has in 2009...

Worst case scenario?

He flops and we get another top 5 pick and we go QB in 2010...

I don't see another 2 win season in the horizon...we no longer have an inept coach...I think Haley will at least know how to finish games...if we had a coach like that last year we would have won 6 games.

The fact Gailey drew up an offense that allowed the Chiefs to compete last year was amazing to me...our defense had 10 sacks...10 friggin' sacks! We should have been the Lions last year...but somehow we competed week in and week out because of the spread offense.

Hootie, if there were any QBs in the 2010 class I'd agree with you, but there is no way to properly express how shit awful that class is. Every QB is coming from the spread. They aren't going to know how to read a defense. The best Pro-Style prospect is Jevan Snead.

Otherwise, you are left with a bunch of insurance salesmen like McCoy or Tebow, or a guy like Sam Bradford, who is basically Chad Pennington with less accuracy, if Pennington couldn't read a defense.

[Hootie]

I kind of like Sam Bradford...but that's beyond the point.

I get what you're saying.

I'm all for Sanchez at #3. I really am...

But I flat out trust Pioli/Haley...

and a part of me is kind of rooting for Crabtree...only because of my newly acquired infatuation for Larry Fitzgerald.

Has anyone ever made a bigger name for themselves in one postseason? Christ...Fitzy put on a SHOW...

If Crabtree is 80% as good as Fitzgerald...

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

That's funny because the numbers will show you that QBs, including our own, get hit more often when they go to a spread than from a traditional drop under center.

Hits are different than getting creamed. Show me numbers on QB injuries in the NFL showing that QBs get INJURED more out of a spread.

The fact is they don't. I will take 10 hits I see over 1 I don't. In the spread you almost always see it coming.

Now I will give you that TRADITIONAL QBs get hurt more often when they try to run... but those aren't the type of QBs I am talking about. I am talking about QBs built to run the ball and who know how to take hits. Not you Palmer's or Leinharts but your Youngs and Brees.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

That's funny because the numbers will show you that QBs, including our own, get hit more often when they go to a spread than from a traditional drop under center.

Most teams probably go to a spread in 2nd or 3rd and long situations. QB's are more likely to get sacked in known passing downs. It doesn't necessarily mean it is the spread.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Hootie

I kind of like Sam Bradford...but that's beyond the point.

I get what you're saying.

I'm all for Sanchez at #3. I really am...

But I flat out trust Pioli/Haley...

and a part of me is kind of rooting for Crabtree...only because of my newly acquired infatuation for Larry Fitzgerald.

Has anyone ever made a bigger name for themselves in one postseason? Christ...Fitzy put on a SHOW...

If Crabtree is 80% as good as Fitzgerald...

You're thinking with your heart, not with your head.

You've admitted you don't really watch college football. I really cannot stress enough how wary you have to be of prospects coming from the spread.

Michael Crabtree has never shown that he can run a square in, a skinny post, or anything other than a two yard dig, a crossing route, or a 9 route.

Not only that, but the guy is slow. There's no other way to put it. He doesn't have the hands or the jumping ability of Fitzgerald.

And Sam Bradford has the easiest position to play in major college football. He was surrounded by three first day picks on the o-line, has pro receivers all around him, and he never has to throw the ball more than 12 yards.

His offense also allows him to throw to WRs matched up against the 4th and 5th CBs on Baylor and Iowa State. It's not exactly boot camp for the NFL.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Every QB is coming from the spread.

Hence my ENTIRE point. Do you really think Michigan, Texas, OU, Florida, etc etc etc etc are going to give up the spread anytime soon?

(Yes I know U-M sucks right now but they will be back to prominence soon...)

How many top ten teams this year DID NOT use the spread as their primary formation? 2?

If all your QB talent coming out of college is gonna be based on the spread... wouldn't it make sense to adapt?

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

You're thinking with your heart, not with your head.

You've admitted you don't really watch college football. I really cannot stress enough how wary you have to be of prospects coming from the spread.

Michael Crabtree has never shown that he can run a square in, a skinny post, or anything other than a two yard dig, a crossing route, or a 9 route.

Not only that, but the guy is slow. There's no other way to put it. He doesn't have the hands or the jumping ability of Fitzgerald.

And Sam Bradford has the easiest position to play in major college football. He was surrounded by three first day picks on the o-line, has pro receivers all around him, and he never has to throw the ball more than 12 yards.

His offense also allows him to throw to WRs matched up against the 4th and 5th CBs on Baylor and Iowa State. It's not exactly boot camp for the NFL.

True. I don't really watch college football...so I am pretty pointless around this time of the year.

[Chiefnj2]

If Crabtree is slow how does he gain all those YAC? He seems to get pretty good separation after making a short catch and turning on the burners.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Hits are different than getting creamed. Show me numbers on QB injuries in the NFL showing that QBs get INJURED more out of a spread.

The fact is they don't. I will take 10 hits I see over 1 I don't. In the spread you almost always see it coming.

Now I will give you that TRADITIONAL QBs get hurt more often when they try to run... but those aren't the type of QBs I am talking about. I am talking about QBs built to run the ball and who know how to take hits. Not you Palmer's or Leinharts but your Youngs and Brees.

I haven't said anything about running. You are inventing an argument. Thigpen wasn't getting hit more because he was running. He was getting hit more because the D knew they were passing on every down.

Furthermore, you are basing your entire argument on something that is unprovable. The fact that getting a blindside hit is 10 times as bad as getting knocked on your ass when you see it coming.

And explain to me why you see it coming in the spread. As soon as you turn to make your first read, you've cut your field of vision in half. You can't throw when your body is parallel to the line of scrimmage unless you are a girl.

QBs in the spread don't take big hits eh?

Like Ben, who got a severe concussion, ****ed his shoulder, and broke his ribs this year?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

If Crabtree is slow how does he gain all those YAC? He seems to get pretty good separation after making a short catch and turning on the burners.

Because he's running away from two-star, fourth string CB recruits from Baylor. He's not being matched up against Malcolm Jenkins and Vontae Davis.

When CBs run a 4.7, it's not hard for a receiver to get good YAC.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Hence my ENTIRE point. Do you really think Michigan, Texas, OU, Florida, etc etc etc etc are going to give up the spread anytime soon?

(Yes I know U-M sucks right now but they will be back to prominence soon...)

How many top ten teams this year DID NOT use the spread as their primary formation? 2?

If all your QB talent coming out of college is gonna be based on the spread... wouldn't it make sense to adapt?

No. There is a quantum leap between the ability of the 4th CB on an NFL roster and that of the 4th CB on a mid-level college team. That's the only reason why the spread works. Funny how when Oklahoma played a real defense for the first time this year they were shut down.

The Big XII South was a joke in the bowl season. Tech got handled by a mid-level SEC team, OSU got beaten soundly by Oregon, and Texas barely escaped a pretty average Ohio State.

Remember when the option was all the rage? How many teams adopted the option as their primary attack in the NFL? Perhaps there is a reason why they didn't?

The speed of the defense.