NFL Draft Neither Stafford or Sanchez belong in top 10 - Page 22

**chiefforlife** · 02-21-2009, 09:39 AM

SOME DON’T VIEW STAFFORD, SANCHEZ AS TOP TEN PICKS
Posted by Mike Florio on February 21, 2009, 8:21 a.m.

Our initial mock draft of the year created plenty of consternation among folks who regard such matters even more importantly that some of our other readers regard their chosen religion.

And, yes, we were trying to make a point with the thing. At this stage, none of the draft experts (i.e., guys who couldn’t get or hold a scouting job with an NFL team and who instead tried to create a niche in the media for the stuff no NFL team would pay them to do) know with any degree of certainty what will occur on draft day.

Apart from the premature nature of prognosticating the events of late April is the fact that every NFL team makes its own decisions for its own reasons, especially in round one. Some draft based on need. Others take the best available player. And when 32 teams have different views on how those available players are ranked from best to worst, the stage is set for all sorts of screwy stuff.

We could have created even more consternation by dropping Georgia quarterback Matt Stafford and USC quarterback Mark Sanchez out of the top ten. In some war rooms, it’s an accurate view of the two players.

Said one source, “In other years those guys aren’t first-round picks. Stafford played well in 2007 but was horrible in 2008. He stunk in all their big games.”

The source specifically pointed to the contests against Alabama, Florida, and Tennessee. Based on the numbers, Stafford was bad against Florida, mediocre against Alabama, and decent against Tennessee.

“He is an average leader at best,” the source opined. “When you put a lot of pressure on him, he pees his pants. Detroit has a new front office, but if they take him then it’s the same old stuff. I guarantee that if he goes in the top 20 he will never play to the level he was drafted.

“What he has is physical skills,” the source added. “He has a strong arm and is athletic but he also has poor instincts and poor decision-making.”

Some might disagree with that assessment. But the point is that, when you’ve got a bunch of different folks assessing the same players, there will be significant variations from person to person.

“As far as Sanchez,” the source said, “he is a more solid choice. He played in a pro style offense. He’s accurate and has a good arm. He’s smart and a leader.

“The negative is he was a one-year starter. Tell me the last time a quarterback who was a one-year starter in college made it big in the NFL? Game time is huge with quarterbacks. Granted, from a money standpoint he made the right decision, but from the standpoint of having a top career, his decision has to be questioned.”

(And, no, our source isn’t Pete Carroll.)

So there you have it. Evidence of how the viewpoints on supposedly top players can diverge dramatically. It makes the process of predicting draft picks even more precarious. So, in the end, we think the final tally of players taken two months from now would presently seem every bit as goofy and unrealistic as some viewed our initial Pre-Combine Mock Draft.

Mecca · 02-22-2009, 08:24 AM

I bet KCJohnny has positive repped him 500 times by now.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 02-22-2009, 08:34 AM

That should do it.

Pioli Zombie · 02-22-2009, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

So you'd either spend a top 3 pick on a LT when we already have a franchise LT, or you'd draft a cover backer with a top 3 pick, and you wonder why you were called a reerun?

I guess that makes most every publication and analyst in the country and most chiefs fans reeruns too.

Btw. I've seen your powerful negative reps. But they have been overshadoed by many more greens that appreciate that I'm not backing down from your romper room style of "debate".

Many teams draft multiple OL and switch them around. You not only improve your left tackle you improve right tackle or left guard if albert moves back there. You draft a stud center later or sign a FA and you got an awesome line to build out from. Have a strong OL you will have an offense that controls the game and helps the defense.

You act like you've never heard this before

All things. Being said if he drafts the qb I'll trust his judgement
Posted via Mobile Device

kstater · 02-22-2009, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie

I guess that makes most every publication and analyst in the country and most chiefs fans reeruns too.

Btw. I've seen your powerful negative reps. But they have been overshadoed by many more greens that appreciate that I'm not backing down from your romper room style of "debate".

Many teams draft multiple OL and switch them around. You not only improve your left tackle you improve right tackle or left guard if albert moves back there. You draft a stud center later or sign a FA and you got an awesome line to build out from. Have a strong OL you will have an offense that controls the game and helps the defense.

You act like you've never heard this before

All things. Being said if he drafts the qb I'll trust his judgement
Posted via Mobile Device

Name all these "many" teams that spend more than 1 top 15 pick on the OL and switch them around. To further that, name a successful team that does it.

58-4ever · 02-22-2009, 08:51 AM

I'd love to see us trade down and grab Sanchez, but I don't think other teams will allow us to do it. If the potential and the tools are there, I don't see why a good coaching staff can't develop a talent like Sanchez. I wouldn't be upset if we took him at 3.

Aaron curry, however, would upset me a bit.

Pioli Zombie · 02-22-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kstater

Name all these "many" teams that spend more than 1 top 15 pick on the OL and switch them around. To further that, name a successful team that does it.

The 90s cowboys switched linemens roles all the time. Patriots too.

Name me college qbs who looked liked stiffs as often as stafford and suddenly became great in the pros just because the teams the teams fanbase wished it so

Sanchez actually has more upside although mecca turned me off him by comparing him to bledsoe.

I just don't get why you guys get so unraveled by the idea it might not be a qb. Its football. Lighten up.
Posted via Mobile Device

milkman · 02-22-2009, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie

The 90s cowboys switched linemens roles all the time. Patriots too.

Name me college qbs who looked liked stiffs as often as stafford and suddenly became great in the pros just because the teams the teams fanbase wished it so

Sanchez actually has more upside although mecca turned me off him by comparing him to bledsoe.

I just don't get why you guys get so unraveled by the idea it might not be a qb. Its football. Lighten up.
Posted via Mobile Device

The question was "Name all these 'many' teams that spend more than 1 top 15 pick on the OL and switch them around. To further that, name a successful team that does it."

How many of those Patriot and Cowboy lineman were top 15 picks?

Or just for the hell of it, forget top 15.
How about just first round picks?

kstater · 02-22-2009, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

The question was "Name all these 'many' teams that spend more than 1 top 15 pick on the OL and switch them around. To further that, name a successful team that does it."

How many of those Patriot and Cowboy lineman were top 15 picks?

Or just for the hell of it, forget top 15.
How about just first round picks?

For shits and giggles, I went and looked at the Cowboys draft history. The last time the Cowboys drafted OL in the 1st round PERIOD was 1980 and 81, with the 26th and 27th picks respectively.

The 91 and 92 Patriots selected a Tackle at 11th and 13th. However in 91 the Patriots had two 1st round picks. And the '92 pick wasn't even on the roster in 95. And the '91 pick wasn't on the roster in 96. Neither helped the Patriots reach the Super Bowl.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 02-22-2009, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie

I guess that makes most every publication and analyst in the country and most chiefs fans reeruns too.

Btw. I've seen your powerful negative reps. But they have been overshadoed by many more greens that appreciate that I'm not backing down from your romper room style of "debate".

Many teams draft multiple OL and switch them around. You not only improve your left tackle you improve right tackle or left guard if albert moves back there. You draft a stud center later or sign a FA and you got an awesome line to build out from. Have a strong OL you will have an offense that controls the game and helps the defense.

You act like you've never heard this before

All things. Being said if he drafts the qb I'll trust his judgement
Posted via Mobile Device

Look at this.
Look at how stupid you are.

This has been explained so many goddamned times on here its preposterous.

Coogs · 02-22-2009, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie

Although I would enjoy it to see the #3 traded down just to hear the wailing and crying the hot topic in new england is a rumor of the chiefs trading their 2nd round pick (35) and first in 2010 for Cassel which would make heads explode too. If the chiefs did that who would you then pick with the #3?
Posted via Mobile Device

To many great football players in next years first round on defense for Pioli to make this trade.

kstater · 02-22-2009, 09:56 AM

I guess I offended Pioli Stuffer with my insults of facts and history.

Just Passin' By · 02-22-2009, 10:03 AM

Different teams approach the draft from different angles. The Steelers draft offensive linemen in the first round quite a bit, for example. I'm not exactly sure how these different approaches make anyone here brilliant or reeruned, but there is no uniform approach to the draft.

kstater · 02-22-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Different teams approach the draft from different angles. The Steelers draft offensive linemen in the first round quite a bit, for example. I'm not exactly sure how these different approaches make anyone here brilliant or reeruned, but there is no uniform approach to the draft.

Steelers have taken 4 OL in the first round in the last 15 years. All with the exception of Otah(19) last year have been in the 28-30 range.

Just Passin' By · 02-22-2009, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kstater

Steelers have taken 4 OL in the first round in the last 15 years. All with the exception of Otah(19) last year have been in the 28-30 range.

They can't exactly take them #1 when they aren't picking there. As I said, different teams take different approaches. The Patriots build from the defensive line first, so you see Wilfork, Seymour and Warren going in the first. The Cowboys trade their first round picks a lot but, when they keep the picks, they tend to focus on defense. With Manning to build around and the concept being "Get ahead and then pressure the opponent with speed", the Colts focus more on the offensive side of the ball and grab their defenders a bit later on.

It's really just a matter of team approach. The "top 15" part of the argument is a loaded question, because any team consistently drafting in the "top 15" is a team that you don't want to follow anyway, usually because they draft poorly along with everything else. Thus, the "top 15" argument really says "do teams that suck draft OL and then move them around?".

Or, to put it another way..... Irregardless of the actual player picked, when Millen was still running the show in Detroit, did you have more faith in Millen drafting in the top 10 or in NE, Pitt, Bal and Ind drafting at the bottom of the round?

**The Bad Guy** · 02-22-2009, 10:28 AM

Yes, let's move Albert. Let's move the one good thing we had last year on the offensive line into a position we don't know how well he'll play or adjust to.

While we are at it, let's move Tony Gonzalez to RT. He can block well and it's easier to get TEs - especially with how fast they ran yesterday.

I wish someone would go Chris Brown on Pioli Zombie already.

02-21-2009, 09:39 AM
chiefforlife Colorado Chief Fan Join Date: Feb 2006 Casino cash: $5493147	Neither Stafford or Sanchez belong in top 10 SOME DON’T VIEW STAFFORD, SANCHEZ AS TOP TEN PICKS Posted by Mike Florio on February 21, 2009, 8:21 a.m. Our initial mock draft of the year created plenty of consternation among folks who regard such matters even more importantly that some of our other readers regard their chosen religion. And, yes, we were trying to make a point with the thing. At this stage, none of the draft experts (i.e., guys who couldn’t get or hold a scouting job with an NFL team and who instead tried to create a niche in the media for the stuff no NFL team would pay them to do) know with any degree of certainty what will occur on draft day. Apart from the premature nature of prognosticating the events of late April is the fact that every NFL team makes its own decisions for its own reasons, especially in round one. Some draft based on need. Others take the best available player. And when 32 teams have different views on how those available players are ranked from best to worst, the stage is set for all sorts of screwy stuff. We could have created even more consternation by dropping Georgia quarterback Matt Stafford and USC quarterback Mark Sanchez out of the top ten. In some war rooms, it’s an accurate view of the two players. Said one source, “In other years those guys aren’t first-round picks. Stafford played well in 2007 but was horrible in 2008. He stunk in all their big games.” The source specifically pointed to the contests against Alabama, Florida, and Tennessee. Based on the numbers, Stafford was bad against Florida, mediocre against Alabama, and decent against Tennessee. “He is an average leader at best,” the source opined. “When you put a lot of pressure on him, he pees his pants. Detroit has a new front office, but if they take him then it’s the same old stuff. I guarantee that if he goes in the top 20 he will never play to the level he was drafted. “What he has is physical skills,” the source added. “He has a strong arm and is athletic but he also has poor instincts and poor decision-making.” Some might disagree with that assessment. But the point is that, when you’ve got a bunch of different folks assessing the same players, there will be significant variations from person to person. “As far as Sanchez,” the source said, “he is a more solid choice. He played in a pro style offense. He’s accurate and has a good arm. He’s smart and a leader. “The negative is he was a one-year starter. Tell me the last time a quarterback who was a one-year starter in college made it big in the NFL? Game time is huge with quarterbacks. Granted, from a money standpoint he made the right decision, but from the standpoint of having a top career, his decision has to be questioned.” (And, no, our source isn’t Pete Carroll.) So there you have it. Evidence of how the viewpoints on supposedly top players can diverge dramatically. It makes the process of predicting draft picks even more precarious. So, in the end, we think the final tally of players taken two months from now would presently seem every bit as goofy and unrealistic as some viewed our initial Pre-Combine Mock Draft.
Posts: 5,717

02-22-2009, 08:24 AM	#316
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-742950	I bet KCJohnny has positive repped him 500 times by now.
Posts: 115,387

02-22-2009, 08:34 AM	#317
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7129572	That should do it. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,083

02-22-2009, 08:51 AM	#320
58-4ever The Collective Unconscious Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The OP Casino cash: $9450422	I'd love to see us trade down and grab Sanchez, but I don't think other teams will allow us to do it. If the potential and the tools are there, I don't see why a good coaching staff can't develop a talent like Sanchez. I wouldn't be upset if we took him at 3. Aaron curry, however, would upset me a bit.
Posts: 10,436

02-22-2009, 09:56 AM	#326
kstater Custom User Title Join Date: Jan 2007 Casino cash: $-1693437	I guess I offended Pioli Stuffer with my insults of facts and history.
Posts: 40,007

02-22-2009, 10:03 AM	#327
Just Passin' By In Search of a Life Join Date: Feb 2009 Casino cash: $5450524	Different teams approach the draft from different angles. The Steelers draft offensive linemen in the first round quite a bit, for example. I'm not exactly sure how these different approaches make anyone here brilliant or reeruned, but there is no uniform approach to the draft.
Posts: 69,748

02-22-2009, 10:28 AM	#330
The Bad Guy Scott Pioli Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: The Copacobana Casino cash: $9283645	Yes, let's move Albert. Let's move the one good thing we had last year on the offensive line into a position we don't know how well he'll play or adjust to. While we are at it, let's move Tony Gonzalez to RT. He can block well and it's easier to get TEs - especially with how fast they ran yesterday. I wish someone would go Chris Brown on Pioli Zombie already. __________________
Posts: 23,216