Mike Vrabel

[Amnorix]

As I did when Pioli came over, I'll post a separate thread because I think it's fair to say that I might have just a little more knowledge about the guy than most on here.

What you guys have traded for is a very smart, team-driven, reliable and consistent performer able to play both inside and outside linebacker in the 3-4, with championship credentials and very good leadership skills.

In my opinion, the reasons that the Chiefs have made this trade are as follows:

1. Veteran leadership. The Chiefs are VERY young. Rather than yet another young draft pick player, the Chiefs have decided that even though he is on the downside of his career and will only play for another year or two, it is important to bring in someone who can show the younger players HOW to practice, HOW to review film, HOW to prepare for games and be coachable, and HOW to play 3-4 linebacker.

2. Defensive flexibility. Vrabel can play both inside and outside in the 3-4 with relatively equal facility. A solid performer, he can set the edge, rush the passer and play hardnosed in the middle.

3. Position flexibility. In addition to his inside/outside talents in the 3-4, he also plays TE in goal line situations, showing the rest of the team that he is able and willing to do WHATEVER the coaches ask to help the team win.

He is, of course, on the downside of his career. Last year there was a very noticeable dropoff in his ability to make impact plays. Whereas in years gone by he stood out on the field for making key plays, last year he wasn't very noticeable. That's good in that you didn't often look at him as having screwed something up, but it's bad in that he wasn't making the strip-sacks that had earned him the love of Patriots fans.

Many here denigrate what he will bring ON the field, and wonder why the Chiefs are giving up anything for him. What you need to understand is that as much as they want what he brings on the field, what they are really bringing him here for is what he brings OFF the field. That is what makes him valuable to a ridiculously young, inexperienced Chiefs team.

And when he talks, those young guys will listen. His three rings ensure that. He will also help the coaches enforce their ways inside the locker room, and get the Chiefs players moving and operating in the right direction.

Though Pats fans knew his time was drawing near, we basically feel like there's been a death in teh family. Vrabel was universally loved and respected by Patriots fans, and we're very sad to see him go.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Claythan

What makes him a good pass rusher, Amno? He always struck me as someone who was very smooth in getting to the quarterback. Made it look easy at times.

Very smart and great motor. Comes hard every play. Good anticipation for the snap, and good use of strength/leverage.

To be honest, last year he had either lost a step or was injured. He wasn't nearly as good in the pass rush as he had been.

[txhawk]

Originally Posted by rad

As far as my take on the situation goes, I don't have one yet. I will wait and and see when the details come out to formulate my opinion. As far as speculation goes, if it's a 6 or 7, I'm OK with it then. I believe the residual effect of having a veteran presence on the field for a season or two will help our younger players when this team is ready to compete.

You know I agree with this statement for the most part. My hope is that the pick isn't something crazy like a 3rd or 4th, but I think Pioli would think better of that.

Obviously NE's willingness to part with Vrabel for a 6th or 7th is telling about how they feel about there existing linebacking corp. Hopefully it's not as much of a reflection of how they feel his skills have degraded.

But smile, we don't have Napolean Harris!

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by bdeg

Thanks Amnorix.
I've heard he can play all positions but is usually an OLB. So you think with loss of speed he may play ILB for us or is he still better on the outside? We need guys outside so that's my guess.

He was an OLB during his Pittsburgh years and first few years with us. When we had a run of injuries in the middle of our defense, and Phifer retired, etc., he slid inside and performed VERY well. He's a VERY smart defensive player, and can be either inside or outside and make few mistakes.

I assume outside. It's harder to find OLB players. I'd be very surprised if you guys were exclusively 3-4 this year, however...

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by rad

As far as my take on the situation goes, I don't have one yet. I will wait and and see when the details come out to formulate my opinion. As far as speculation goes, if it's a 6 or 7, I'm OK with it then. I believe the residual effect of having a veteran presence on the field for a season or two will help our younger players when this team is ready to compete.

Just as a hypothetical, for sake of conversation:

Say someone like AQ Shipley or Troy Kropog slides on draft day to the point we could have taken him with the pick we used on Vrabel.

Will you still be OK with it, knowing we could have had a spot on the OL locked up for the foreseeable future?

[PHOG]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

I'm not knocking the guy.

I just don't agree with this decision.

Oh, I understand...and I'm not sure I agree with it either, but I do believe it's just the start...and I do believe that....I think it's going to be a GREAT ride whether I or you or anyone else believes in a paricular move or not. I do think he has a plan, and that alone is leaps and bounds above the previous 3 years debacle (which isn't saying much).

I've edited this post so many times, it's getting really toughto type lol

Have a good one, g'night

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

What is wrong with me wishing he had kept that pick and used it on a young player that could still be here and contribute to a future SB win?

Contrary to popular belief, the guy isn't the God of all GM's.

He's made mistakes before, and he'll make them again.

You have to be the homer of all homers to agree with everything an organization does. I'm sure Amnorix can tell you stories of times they thought Pioli made a mistake.

Sure. The entire 2000 draft other than Brady was a wipeout. They had less time than they wanted to prepare for it with all the silliness involving Parcells, but still.

And the Pats have had some lousy 2nd round picks, to be honest. Bethel Johnson and that other useless burner WR come to mind.

Some FA CB signings have turned out to be jokes.

The list goes on and on. Nobody is perfect. Not even close.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Who said anything about "finding our Brady?"

I'm just pointing out that Pioli has done a good job in the late rounds.

Missing out on say, a guy like Koppen (as an example) to trade for Vrabel frustrates the hell out of me.

Jesus Christ. You make the ridiculous assumption that, first, you're going to get something good with a late round pick, toher than just crossing your fingers and praying, which is basically what late round picks are.

Second, if there is someone he REALLY likes at 5th or 6th round, it's not that hard to trade to get a pick at those levels.

Finally, you just completely discount what Vrabel can bring you off the field on the LONG SHOT HOPE that you get yet another KID who just might not totally suck. It's silliness.

[rad]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Just as a hypothetical, for sake of conversation:

Say someone like AQ Shipley or Troy Kropog slides on draft day to the point we could have taken him with the pick we used on Vrabel.

Will you still be OK with it, knowing we could have had a spot on the OL locked up for the foreseeable future?

Just so you understand where I land in the "pecking order" here, I'll tell you I don't know as much about football as most here do.

I don't know who those guys are, but if they did and could play as well as you infer, then no, I wouldn't.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Joe_Camel

He may have made a mistake, but I don't think that any of us should lose any sleep over a trade for a good veteran player for a draft pick that may or may not be in the later rounds of the draft. I mean we did just pick up 12 rookies in the draft last year.

Yeah, because 7 more is really what you want. Every team should have 40% of its roster be 1st and 2nd year guys...



(I realize you're not saying this, I'm directing this at the other geniouses on here)

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Sure. The entire 2000 draft other than Brady was a wipeout. They had less time than they wanted to prepare for it with all the silliness involving Parcells, but still.

And the Pats have had some lousy 2nd round picks, to be honest. Bethel Johnson and that other useless burner WR come to mind.

Some FA CB signings have turned out to be jokes.

The list goes on and on. Nobody is perfect. Not even close.

And that's my point.

It's silly to not question anything he does just because he's been part of 3 Championships.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by txhawk

You know I agree with this statement for the most part. My hope is that the pick isn't something crazy like a 3rd or 4th, but I think Pioli would think better of that.

Obviously NE's willingness to part with Vrabel for a 6th or 7th is telling about how they feel about there existing linebacking corp. Hopefully it's not as much of a reflection of how they feel his skills have degraded.

But smile, we don't have Napolean Harris!

Acutally, Patriots fans desperately hope that this is one part of a two step process to bring Peppers or someone here. We're REALLY thin at linebacker now!!

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Just as a hypothetical, for sake of conversation:

Say someone like AQ Shipley or Troy Kropog slides on draft day to the point we could have taken him with the pick we used on Vrabel.

Will you still be OK with it, knowing we could have had a spot on the OL locked up for the foreseeable future?

If they like those guys enough, they can move up to get them. It's not like it's hard to get a late round pick...

[Simply Red]

Thanks.

[Amnorix]

Let me point out something else --

nobody on here, despite much discussion about the topic, has much feel for how much 3-4 versus 4-3 the team wants to play, or how well they project their current players in filling those roles.

They want to go to 3-4, and yet your roster isn't exactly loaded with guys who are well suited for that. The transition is a multiyear process. OLB is one of the tougher positions to fill.

Vrabel gives them someone who can do the OLB thing, and can help the younger players that can fit into that system do that. He has experience both at OLB and ILB, and can play and help other players with both roles.

What the hell 5th, 6th or 7th round pick can do any of that? Answer: none.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Jesus Christ. You make the ridiculous assumption that, first, you're going to get something good with a late round pick, toher than just crossing your fingers and praying, which is basically what late round picks are.

He's hit on one or more almost every year. Tell me you would have won without the contributions of those players.

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Second, if there is someone he REALLY likes at 5th or 6th round, it's not that hard to trade to get a pick at those levels.

Now we've given up another pick. We had 7 to start, presumably traded one of them for Vrabel, now we're using one to trade up to get a play we could have had if we just kept our pick.

Fantastic. A rebuilding team with 5 draft picks.

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Finally, you just completely discount what Vrabel can bring you off the field on the LONG SHOT HOPE that you get yet another KID who just might not totally suck. It's silliness.

Who's he gonna teach to play linebacker?

Derrick Johnson, who's probably not going to be re-signed?

Demorrio Williams, who's also likely to be told to walk once his deal is up?

He's a rental, and it's pretty likely with a roster this shallow that half of the players he's "mentoring" this year aren't going to be on the roster next year.

He was great for you guys, he fit the system. Part of that system is being smart enough to know when to cut a guy loose because he's got nothing left to give. I think Belichick is ****ing brilliant for getting anything for a guy that isn't an every-down player, who wouldn't have been on the team in 2010.