Mike Vrabel

[Amnorix]

As I did when Pioli came over, I'll post a separate thread because I think it's fair to say that I might have just a little more knowledge about the guy than most on here.

What you guys have traded for is a very smart, team-driven, reliable and consistent performer able to play both inside and outside linebacker in the 3-4, with championship credentials and very good leadership skills.

In my opinion, the reasons that the Chiefs have made this trade are as follows:

1. Veteran leadership. The Chiefs are VERY young. Rather than yet another young draft pick player, the Chiefs have decided that even though he is on the downside of his career and will only play for another year or two, it is important to bring in someone who can show the younger players HOW to practice, HOW to review film, HOW to prepare for games and be coachable, and HOW to play 3-4 linebacker.

2. Defensive flexibility. Vrabel can play both inside and outside in the 3-4 with relatively equal facility. A solid performer, he can set the edge, rush the passer and play hardnosed in the middle.

3. Position flexibility. In addition to his inside/outside talents in the 3-4, he also plays TE in goal line situations, showing the rest of the team that he is able and willing to do WHATEVER the coaches ask to help the team win.

He is, of course, on the downside of his career. Last year there was a very noticeable dropoff in his ability to make impact plays. Whereas in years gone by he stood out on the field for making key plays, last year he wasn't very noticeable. That's good in that you didn't often look at him as having screwed something up, but it's bad in that he wasn't making the strip-sacks that had earned him the love of Patriots fans.

Many here denigrate what he will bring ON the field, and wonder why the Chiefs are giving up anything for him. What you need to understand is that as much as they want what he brings on the field, what they are really bringing him here for is what he brings OFF the field. That is what makes him valuable to a ridiculously young, inexperienced Chiefs team.

And when he talks, those young guys will listen. His three rings ensure that. He will also help the coaches enforce their ways inside the locker room, and get the Chiefs players moving and operating in the right direction.

Though Pats fans knew his time was drawing near, we basically feel like there's been a death in teh family. Vrabel was universally loved and respected by Patriots fans, and we're very sad to see him go.

[BradyFTW!]

Originally Posted by Mecca

It'd be pretty close to the worst thing ever...

Worse than Herm Edwards coaching your team for 3 years?

[smittysbar]

I am drunk, and not reading all of this, but if we didn't give up very much, I don;t mind it a bit.

Maybe this is exactly what we need, a worker! Blue ****ing collar. What these young guys need, a winning attitude, and a guy who can teach a bunch of thugs and pussies a real work ethic......can't put a price on that.

I would like to see what we gave for him, but this place has gotten crazy lately. You can't have 24 year olds at every position, especially if they have never ran this system. He will be a great on field leader.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Acutally, Patriots fans desperately hope that this is one part of a two step process to bring Peppers or someone here. We're REALLY thin at linebacker now!!

[CupidStunt]

Originally Posted by BigRock

We give up 7th for Vrabel = anyone seriously complaining is a ree-tee-ard

We give up 6th for Vrabel = perfectly acceptable

We give up 5th for Vrabel = ehhhhhh

We give up 4th for Vrabel = WTF? No.

We give up 3rd for Vrabel =

EXACTLY right. Some of the knucklehead know-it-alls around here are just hilarious in their meltdowns.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

And people aren't understanding the anger over the Vrabel signing. Most of it stems from the move to a 3-4 which totally misuses our #5 overall pick from last year. To us, that seems ridiculously inflexible and hopelessly myopic. Whatever happened to fitting the scheme to suit your players.

Guys like Tamba Hali aren't world beaters, but he can give you 6-8 sacks from the left end position in the 4-3. That has value. Glenn Dorsey has Warren Sapp type ability in a 3-4, but he is too small to play the nose, and too short and too important to play the end.

Those guys are worth something, and if we are flushing their talents due to such a strong committment to a scheme which is no better than any other, I question the judgment involved in such move.

What about last year's defense suggests that sticking to the 4-3 is a good idea. Far as I can tell, based on your current personnel, you suck at 4-3.

So why not switch to 3-4. For a while you'll no doubt suck at both as you transition, but in 2-3 years, which is the real timeline you're looking at anyway, you'll finally get good at something, presumably.

Also, I don't understand why Dorsey can't hope to succeed in the 3-4. Maybe he won't be ideal, but he should work in some form or fashion.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

And that's what angers me.

Tomlin kept the 3-4 in Pittsburgh even though he's a Dungy disciple.

People need to realize that schemes are roughly equal. There is nothing in a 3-4 that makes it intrinsically better than a 4-3. So, if you have 4-3 talent, but no 3-4 talent, why waste that talent?

It just doesn't seem logical.

Because you have so little 4-3 talent it hardly matters?

[Pioli Zombie]

Yes the chiefs must tailor their defense around the awesome talent they have in place. Oy effen Vay.
Posted via Mobile Device

[RedThat]

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

Veteran leadership is nice, and all, but you have to have some talent in place before it can be led.

Patience my friend. There is some talent on this team, unfortunately, most of it is on the offensive side of the ball. But the draft is coming soon and I strongly feel that Pioli will be looking at the draft to add some young defensive talent on this team.

In addition to discussing about talent, I think that was part of the whole plan when Herm Edwards took over the team?

Get rid of most of the veterans on the roster, rebuild the roster from scratch and load it with an abdunance of youth and talent. And as a consequence, the roster went from being "old" to too "young". Therefore, it also lacked veteran leadership in the process.

I think this move is a classic example in large part of understanding your teams situation and the dynamics that evolve around it.

[mlyonsd]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Because you have so little 4-3 talent it hardly matters?

My thinking is this trade makes picking Curry at #3 a no brainer. Vrabel could make a leadership impact, especially with the other LB's. Drafting the best one available and having Vrabel around 1-2 years teaching him makes sense.

[RedThat]

Originally Posted by mlyonsd

My thinking is this trade makes picking Curry at #3 a no brainer. Vrabel could make a leadership impact, especially with the other LB's. Drafting the best one available and having Vrabel around 1-2 years teaching him makes sense.

Yup. Good point.

[Blindside58]

Tedy Bruschi-LB-Patriots Feb. 28 - 8:39 am et

Tedy Bruschi responded via email to the Boston Herald regarding the trade of longtime teammate and close friend Mike Vrabel.
"We’ve lost perhaps our best all around football player," he said. "Defense, offense, special teams, Vrabes did it all. His intelligence and on field adjustments can not be replaced. This team has just changed immensely." With Vrabel gone, Bruschi's leadership on the New England defense will become even more important.
Source: Boston Herald

[txhawk]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

And people aren't understanding the anger over the Vrabel signing. Most of it stems from the move to a 3-4 which totally misuses our #5 overall pick from last year. To us, that seems ridiculously inflexible and hopelessly myopic. Whatever happened to fitting the scheme to suit your players.

Guys like Tamba Hali aren't world beaters, but he can give you 6-8 sacks from the left end position in the 4-3. That has value. Glenn Dorsey has Warren Sapp type ability in a 3-4, but he is too small to play the nose, and too short and too important to play the end.

Those guys are worth something, and if we are flushing their talents due to such a strong committment to a scheme which is no better than any other, I question the judgment involved in such move.

Outside of the young dbacks, this defense is screaming for an identity. The existing talent is marginal at best. Tamba Hali is flat out a bust this far. Sorry, the guy's just not that good. For where he was drafted, 6-8 sacks a season is weaker than snake shit.

And I think it's safe to say that DJ is underperforming for his salary and draft position.

Dorsey, based on one season, was terrible. But he at least has upside and perhaps trade value.

Point being in this all said is SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO CUT YOUR LOSSES. The way things have been are unacceptable, and this old regime way of thinking some of you have is really quite unfortunate. THIS WILL NOT BE THE SAME TEAM. New management wants to show their merit and worth, and falling back on what was done here in the past equates to jack shit! Get used to it, because that's just the way of today's NFL.

But to suggest the 3-4 defense is not quickly becoming the best style of Defense is absurd. The confusion it creates for an opposing offense is wonderful thing to watch.

[Pioli Zombie]

You don't play to the mistakes you made in the past or else you keep the mistake going.
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[tmax63]

Maybe giving DJ a little bit of a guide on how to be a pro-bowl lb will help him reach his potential???? I'm not thrilled if the Chiefs gave up anything more than a 6th but they got a player who "does it the right way", is infinitely familiar with the system that may be installed, is an improvement over almost all the lb's on the roster and is a consumate team player. He will be a "coach on the field" and when he walks into the locker room wearing 3 rings I would expect that he will command a little respect. Young pups can find their way eventually but if they got a smart old hound to lead the way they'll get there faster. I'm not turning cartwheels here but I'm not ready to say dropping a late drop pick on him was the biggest mistake so far.

[el borracho]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Who's he gonna teach to play linebacker?

Derrick Johnson, who's probably not going to be re-signed?

Demorrio Williams, who's also likely to be told to walk once his deal is up?

He's a rental, and it's pretty likely with a roster this shallow that half of the players he's "mentoring" this year aren't going to be on the roster next year.

You and I are in complete agreement. I don't hate Vrabel; I don't think I'm smarter than Pioli; I just don't like trading for short-term benefit and/or intangibles.