Mike Vrabel

[Amnorix]

As I did when Pioli came over, I'll post a separate thread because I think it's fair to say that I might have just a little more knowledge about the guy than most on here.

What you guys have traded for is a very smart, team-driven, reliable and consistent performer able to play both inside and outside linebacker in the 3-4, with championship credentials and very good leadership skills.

In my opinion, the reasons that the Chiefs have made this trade are as follows:

1. Veteran leadership. The Chiefs are VERY young. Rather than yet another young draft pick player, the Chiefs have decided that even though he is on the downside of his career and will only play for another year or two, it is important to bring in someone who can show the younger players HOW to practice, HOW to review film, HOW to prepare for games and be coachable, and HOW to play 3-4 linebacker.

2. Defensive flexibility. Vrabel can play both inside and outside in the 3-4 with relatively equal facility. A solid performer, he can set the edge, rush the passer and play hardnosed in the middle.

3. Position flexibility. In addition to his inside/outside talents in the 3-4, he also plays TE in goal line situations, showing the rest of the team that he is able and willing to do WHATEVER the coaches ask to help the team win.

He is, of course, on the downside of his career. Last year there was a very noticeable dropoff in his ability to make impact plays. Whereas in years gone by he stood out on the field for making key plays, last year he wasn't very noticeable. That's good in that you didn't often look at him as having screwed something up, but it's bad in that he wasn't making the strip-sacks that had earned him the love of Patriots fans.

Many here denigrate what he will bring ON the field, and wonder why the Chiefs are giving up anything for him. What you need to understand is that as much as they want what he brings on the field, what they are really bringing him here for is what he brings OFF the field. That is what makes him valuable to a ridiculously young, inexperienced Chiefs team.

And when he talks, those young guys will listen. His three rings ensure that. He will also help the coaches enforce their ways inside the locker room, and get the Chiefs players moving and operating in the right direction.

Though Pats fans knew his time was drawing near, we basically feel like there's been a death in teh family. Vrabel was universally loved and respected by Patriots fans, and we're very sad to see him go.

[el borracho]

Originally Posted by FAX

One of the few times (or only time, as I think about it) I must disagree with you, Mr. el borracho. Vrabel makes sense. Things have to change in the locker room and on the practice field as much as they need to change on the field of play.

I'm certain that Pioli knows that Vrabel is a dead linebacker walking. Therefore, his rationale for the trade has to be related to Vrabel's ability to translate the coaching staff's demands down to the player level. In a situation like ours, to have a trusted, experienced, proven player in that role is extremely valuable.

When you think about it, we don't have anyone like that. All we have are guys who have been part of a team that hasn't won much of anything except the adoration of the fans.

I remain confident in Pioli's decision-making.

FAX

I do value vet leadership but (apparently) not as much as others. I think that role could have been equally served by someone already on the squad or a free-agent; I just detest the idea of sacrificing draft picks for it. I don't know... perhaps I under-value that service

[el borracho]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

First, if the team currently is a bunch of turds, then Pioli will likely cut alot of guys and be assembling from scratch. If not, then he'll keep a fair few players.

Either way, the team you see in 2009 will have the nucleus of the team going forward into 2010 and 2011. The team that wins tomorrow is being formed NOW. You need to show them how to get from the piece of crap the Chiefs currently call their team to a team that is "big, tough, strong, and competes for championships year after year", whcih is the BB/SP motto.

And you are going to spend one or more relatively high picks on the defnsive side of the ball. Thsoe guys are your future too. And they need leadership too.

Nothing to do with this post in particular but, Wow! I can't recall seeing you so fired up about something on here. I hope you are correct but, as of now, I don't see this as a good (or necessary) trade. In any case, I do appreciate your insider's view so, thank you.

[Chiefnj2]

Look at the reaction of the Pats fans. They don't like losing him one bit. It's a good pickup provided it was a late round pick that was lost.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by el borracho

You and I are in complete agreement. I don't hate Vrabel; I don't think I'm smarter than Pioli; I just don't like trading for short-term benefit and/or intangibles.

That's all I'm saying.

[el borracho]

Originally Posted by Mecca

It might just be me but I don't remotely care about Hali or DJ anymore they've had enough time to prove themselves and haven't.

Not just you- Hali sucks and needs replacing ASAP, DJ is invisible.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

What about last year's defense suggests that sticking to the 4-3 is a good idea. Far as I can tell, based on your current personnel, you suck at 4-3.

So why not switch to 3-4. For a while you'll no doubt suck at both as you transition, but in 2-3 years, which is the real timeline you're looking at anyway, you'll finally get good at something, presumably.

Also, I don't understand why Dorsey can't hope to succeed in the 3-4. Maybe he won't be ideal, but he should work in some form or fashion.

For one, our talent at 4-3 isn't wholly non-existent.

We ran a Cover 2 because Herm was hopelessly tied to it. A Cover 2 without a pass rush is basically a prevent defense.

We have a top 5 pick who is a Warren Sapp-like one gap penetrator, a LDE who put up 8 sacks in each of his first two years, and a SLB who, for all of his inconsistency, shows flashes of brilliance.

This team has the talent to be a good 4-3 attacking defense. Yes, we need upgrades at 2/3 LB spots and we need a right end. In the 3-4, we need upgrades everywhere.

And I've still yet to see a convincing argument that the 3-4 is an inherently better scheme than a 4-3.

But the main reason goes back to Dorsey.

If we had drafted Earl Campbell, how would people feel about splitting him out like the Rams did Marshall Faulk? A 3-4 is a complete waste of his abilities. He's not a space eater, he's a pocket collapser. He's not as tall as a guy like Richard Seymour, he's not suited to play a 3-4 end.

[Chiefnj2]

You don't design your entire defense around Dorsey.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by txhawk

Outside of the young dbacks, this defense is screaming for an identity. The existing talent is marginal at best. Tamba Hali is flat out a bust this far. Sorry, the guy's just not that good. For where he was drafted, 6-8 sacks a season is weaker than snake shit.

And I think it's safe to say that DJ is underperforming for his salary and draft position.

Dorsey, based on one season, was terrible. But he at least has upside and perhaps trade value.

Point being in this all said is SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO CUT YOUR LOSSES. The way things have been are unacceptable, and this old regime way of thinking some of you have is really quite unfortunate. THIS WILL NOT BE THE SAME TEAM. New management wants to show their merit and worth, and falling back on what was done here in the past equates to jack shit! Get used to it, because that's just the way of today's NFL.

But to suggest the 3-4 defense is not quickly becoming the best style of Defense is absurd. The confusion it creates for an opposing offense is wonderful thing to watch.

How many LDEs give you more than 8 sacks a year? It's a small list. Aaron Kampman, Julius Peppers, Jevon Kearse way back in the day. I'm not saying that Hali is a pro bowl LDE, but he is an above average player at that position. No, he's not Reggie White, but defenses don't have 11 pro bowlers on them.

Johnson is again best suited as a downhill player. He led the league in TFL two years ago, it's not like he doesn't have talent. But when you are in a read and react defense, it causes you to lose your aggression. It's not a coincidence that guys like Kawika Mitchell leave and then become productive players elsewhere. Our coaching has been horrible for over a decade on the defensive side of the ball.

And I can show you the results. The average finish of the 3-4 defenses vs. the 4-3 defenses are virtually identical.

Schemes don't win games. Players do. The only reason the Ravens D was worth a shit was because of Haloti Ngata, Terrell Suggs, and Ed Reed.

Pittsburgh's D is carried by Harrison, Woodley, Polamalu, and Hampton.

Those teams have an embarrassment of riches. It's the same for the old Bucs teams, 6-7 PBs on one side of the ball, or the 2000 Ravens, a 4-3 team loaded with talent.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by el borracho

Not just you- Hali sucks and needs replacing ASAP, DJ is invisible.

We can't say definitively that anyone on this defense sucks until we've seen them play under a coach not named Gunther...

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Schemes don't win games. Players do. .

Players win games when they are schemes that fit their skillset.

[Chiefshrink]

For all those against giving up a 7th for Vrabel, just ask the Cowboys about the importance of leadership. All that talent and can't even make the playoffs. What would Vrabel say and do to T.O. inside that locker room? Wouldn't be pretty but I bet the Cowboys get their sh** straight.

Yes it sucks giving up a pick win you only had 7 to begin but if we had 10-13 picks this yr it would probably be a non-issue. More importantly I think the fact that Pioli did give up a pick with only 7 to start with says he might be tipping his hand a bit that he will attempt to trade down to get more picks and may have found a suitor for that already. Who knows?

Either or I'm glad we have some good solid leadership in Vrabel and pleeeeeeeeeeease let Pioli do his job !!!!!!!!!

Good post Amnorix!!!!!

[Chiefless]

I like the thinking behind the move for a fifth or lower. Whether it works or not remains to be seen. KC DOES sorely need defensive leadership before it can adequately determine what talent it has on that side of the ball...IMO.

Has someone set up a poll for this yet? I'd like to see where the planet weighs in as a whole.

[oldandslow]

Originally Posted by sportsshrink

For all those against giving up a 7th for Vrabel, just ask the Cowboys about the importance of leadership. All that talent and can't even make the playoffs. What would Vrabel say and do to T.O. inside that locker room? Wouldn't be pretty but I bet the Cowboys get their sh** straight.

Yes it sucks giving up a pick win you only had 7 to begin but if we had 10-13 picks this yr it would probably be a non-issue. More importantly I think the fact that Pioli did give up a pick with only 7 to start with says he might be tipping his hand a bit that he will attempt to trade down to get more picks and may have found a suitor for that already. Who knows?

Either or I'm glad we have some good solid leadership in Vrabel and pleeeeeeeeeeease let Pioli do his job !!!!!!!!!

Good post Amnorix!!!!!

+1

[htismaqe]

I for one am gonna be pissed if we gave up the next Kevin Robinson for Vrabel...

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I for one am gonna be pissed if we gave up the next Kevin Robinson for Vrabel...

or michael merritt