Chiefs Chiefs sticking with spread offense? - Page 6

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-10-2009, 08:55 AM

I am sick of talking about Hali and DJ fitting into the 3-4 and whether the Chiefs are going to draft an ILB, a RT or an injured WR.... so, why not bring up something that will make Mecca's head explode.

First, I am not saying the Chiefs will use the spread offense as extensively as they did last year.

However, if you watched the Cards under Haley last year, they used a ton of the spread.

And, if you watched the Pats, Cassel played his best from the shotgun in the spread offense.

For those of you who don't think the spread has much of a future in the NFL... much of what the Pats have run over the last two years has been based on the spread.

In fact, after further examination, I think Cassel and Thigpen's playing style is more similar than it is different. Cassel is clearly more polished and tended to make quicker better reads, and of course is two inches taller.

But, he was more comfortable in the shotgun, similar to Thigpen. He is also a scrambler, similar to Thigpen. And, he was the most comfortable using the spread formation, simialr to Thigpen.

Could the Chiefs have picked him up BECAUSE he will make a good spread QB?

Gailey and Haley are very similar in that they will not force the issue, they will do what their players do best. I think the spread will be a large part of the offensive package utilized in KC.

What I don't know is why the 'spread' has such a negative conotation. Teams have used versions of this in the NFL for a long time.

I have even come up with a name for the offense that I think we will see this year, the 'West Coast Spread'. I believe they will combine many of the pilosophies of the west coast sytem: Larger receivers, shorter passes, slants, etc. I think they will be a primarily zone running team. And, finally, I think that Cassel will see a larger part of the time in the shotgun spread formation.

Now, that I have laid out what I think will happen..... based on nothing more than what I think the talent on the team will be good at as well as what the coaches have done in the past.... you guys can flame me.

Yes... this is a stab in the dark. No, I am not an insider. But, frankly, I would rather get flamed on something new and interesting than continue to argue whether Hali can be an OLB or whether positional value should outweigh actual player evaluation.

keg in kc · 03-10-2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

When DV\AS were here we ran the ball alot and was successful at it. In Arizona they could hardly ever run successfully until they got to the playoffs. I guess that is the best time to get good at it.

That offense was predicated around the run about as much as any aggressive system can be. But that's not what I'm referring to. Even when the offense was at its peak, they had a very hard time executing late in games. They couldn't line up and just pound 2 or 3 yards when they needed it.

kcbubb · 03-10-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

Wasn't Cassel sacked more than any other QB?

sacks is not the only indicator of poor o line play. the ability to run the ball is important and the pats had (I think) the 6th best rushing offense in the league. the KC o line couldn't run block and they couldn't pass block for very long. I don't think it is a stretch to suggest that the pats o line is much better the Chiefs.

this really wasn't even what I was talking about.... someone suggested that the chiefs shouldn't use the spread bc it doesn't fit the talents of the team and I was pointing out that the spread helps our o line because they suck. and I can definitely see us using the spread on occasion to benefit the weak o line.

RustShack · 03-10-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcbubb

sacks is not the only indicator of poor o line play. the ability to run the ball is important and the pats had (I think) the 6th best rushing offense in the league. the KC o line couldn't run block and they couldn't pass block for very long. I don't think it is a stretch to suggest that the pats o line is much better the Chiefs.

this really wasn't even what I was talking about.... someone suggested that the chiefs shouldn't use the spread bc it doesn't fit the talents of the team and I was pointing out that the spread helps our o line because they suck. and I can definitely see us using the spread on occasion to benefit the weak o line.

LJ was leading the NFL in rushing yards or was second in rushing yards before we switched to the spread...

Sweet Daddy Hate · 03-10-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

LJ was leading the NFL in rushing yards or was second in rushing yards before we switched to the spread...

B-but...but...our rushing yards were GREATER in 08 once wqe switched to the Almighty Spread!

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-10-2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth CarlSatan

So you admit to starting shit-storm threads? You do you know.

So here's my response, and it's one I know you were hoping for:

"Oh golly! I sure hope they do, because it would validate both the spread AND me, Nonsensical Chiefs Fan, and I would be right, right, RIGHT"!

(For once).

Um, if shit-storm threads are ones that should provoke thought and conversation, then YES I do try to start them.

Actually, I don't really care about being right. Predicting what will happen does not mean you 'know' football. Many guys who predict all sorts of things know football. There are a myriad of factors that go into any decision the Chiefs make.

I do care about raising the level of understanding about football on this board. I would like to have intelligent conversation about my football team with other informed fans. They do not have to think like me, but I would prefer that their opinions come from logic based thought, and now some half assed radio sports jock.

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-10-2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sully

Neither of those teams ran the "spread."
They also didn't run the "Run 'n' Shoot."

They didn't run the spread option, but they did run the spread offense.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 03-10-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

Um, if shit-storm threads are ones that should provoke thought and conversation, then YES I do try to start them.

Actually, I don't really care about being right. Predicting what will happen does not mean you 'know' football. Many guys who predict all sorts of things know football. There are a myriad of factors that go into any decision the Chiefs make.

I do care about raising the level of understanding about football on this board. I would like to have intelligent conversation about my football team with other informed fans. They do not have to think like me, but I would prefer that their opinions come from logic based thought, and now some half assed radio sports jock.

No.

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-10-2009, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

So why do you think they ran it even though we didn't switch to it until Thigpen took over?

First, the Chiefs had the spread offense in the playbook before the season ever started, including the spread option. They were planning on doing a lot of zone running, bootlegs, etc. Brodie Croyle gets hurt.

Now, do you think Damon Huard could have run the spread? No.

Brodie comes back and gets hurt again.... Huard gets hurt.

Now, the other part of this is that LJ gets suspended.

The power runner for the power running game is suspended. The Offensive line is struggling to open up running lanes, or protect the QB.

So, there was much more to why the Chiefs ran the spread than just Thigpen.

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-10-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth CarlSatan

No.

Sorry, but aren't you the same guy trying to argue that the Cassel/Vrabel deal had something to do with the other two players the Chiefs brought in? You argued that it was freed up roster/cap space when in fact those moves had NO bearing on the Pats cap or roster situation.

It is THIS kind of ignorance that I will work to eliminate.

Now, we can argue about what physical tools a player has. That is a matter of opinion. Many things are matters of opinions. But, lets please at least try to get the facts right.

Not to say I am always right on my facts. I make mistakes like anyone else... but lets own our mistakes, and then work to do better.

kcbubb · 03-10-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustShack View Post
LJ was leading the NFL in rushing yards or was second in rushing yards before we switched to the spread...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth CarlSatan

B-but...but...our rushing yards were GREATER in 08 once wqe switched to the Almighty Spread!

I don't think LJ was and even if he was, where would he have been without the Denver game??? the game would over inflate the stat.

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-10-2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

Cassel was the #8 QB in the nation coming out of HS where he lined up under center. He went to USC who runs a pro style offense. He was the backup to Heisman trophy winner Carson Palmer who was drafted #1 overall and was also his roomate and best man in his wedding. Cassel almost beat out Matt Leinart in college. He still got some playing time and you would be foolish to think he didn't get any snaps in practice either. He has far more experience running a Pro Style offense than Thigpen does. Cassel also had better NFL coaching than Thigpen has received so far too.

Hey, you don't have to sell me on Cassel... I liked the move a good bit.

I agree that right now, Cassel is much more equipped to go under center. I agree that right now, Cassel is more ready than Thigpen to start for this team.

I just think that he will be running the spread a lot this year, and I know he ran it a lot last year... and had his best success in it.

kcbubb · 03-10-2009, 12:31 PM

the pats didn't get any cap relief from the vrabel trade???? was I misinformed???

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-10-2009, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

LJ was leading the NFL in rushing yards or was second in rushing yards before we switched to the spread...

Wasn't LJ suspended when the Chiefs switched to the spread?

RustShack · 03-10-2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcbubb

I don't think LJ was and even if he was, where would he have been without the Denver game??? the game would over inflate the stat.

He was near the top before that game but hey keep trying.

RustShack · 03-10-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

Hey, you don't have to sell me on Cassel... I liked the move a good bit.

I agree that right now, Cassel is much more equipped to go under center. I agree that right now, Cassel is more ready than Thigpen to start for this team.

I just think that he will be running the spread a lot this year, and I know he ran it a lot last year... and had his best success in it.

Oh yeah I know we will use it, the difference is Cassel CAN line and will also line up under center helping the offense a lot more.

03-10-2009, 08:55 AM
SenselessChiefsFan MVP Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $10005450	Chiefs sticking with spread offense? I am sick of talking about Hali and DJ fitting into the 3-4 and whether the Chiefs are going to draft an ILB, a RT or an injured WR.... so, why not bring up something that will make Mecca's head explode. First, I am not saying the Chiefs will use the spread offense as extensively as they did last year. However, if you watched the Cards under Haley last year, they used a ton of the spread. And, if you watched the Pats, Cassel played his best from the shotgun in the spread offense. For those of you who don't think the spread has much of a future in the NFL... much of what the Pats have run over the last two years has been based on the spread. In fact, after further examination, I think Cassel and Thigpen's playing style is more similar than it is different. Cassel is clearly more polished and tended to make quicker better reads, and of course is two inches taller. But, he was more comfortable in the shotgun, similar to Thigpen. He is also a scrambler, similar to Thigpen. And, he was the most comfortable using the spread formation, simialr to Thigpen. Could the Chiefs have picked him up BECAUSE he will make a good spread QB? Gailey and Haley are very similar in that they will not force the issue, they will do what their players do best. I think the spread will be a large part of the offensive package utilized in KC. What I don't know is why the 'spread' has such a negative conotation. Teams have used versions of this in the NFL for a long time. I have even come up with a name for the offense that I think we will see this year, the 'West Coast Spread'. I believe they will combine many of the pilosophies of the west coast sytem: Larger receivers, shorter passes, slants, etc. I think they will be a primarily zone running team. And, finally, I think that Cassel will see a larger part of the time in the shotgun spread formation. Now, that I have laid out what I think will happen..... based on nothing more than what I think the talent on the team will be good at as well as what the coaches have done in the past.... you guys can flame me. Yes... this is a stab in the dark. No, I am not an insider. But, frankly, I would rather get flamed on something new and interesting than continue to argue whether Hali can be an OLB or whether positional value should outweigh actual player evaluation.
Posts: 5,540

03-10-2009, 12:31 PM	#87
kcbubb Veteran Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $4966719	the pats didn't get any cap relief from the vrabel trade???? was I misinformed???
Posts: 2,560