Other Sports Curt Schilling Retires -- is he a HOFer? - Page 3

Amnorix · 03-25-2009, 09:11 AM

So Curt Schilling officially retired earlier this week. Is he a Hall of Famer in your mind, or not?

The stats:

216 wins (light for a HOFer, it's like 80th all-time)
146 losses
.596 Winning Percentage
No Cy Young Awards. Came in 2nd 3 times, and 4th once.
6 All Star Appearances
3.47 ERA
ERA +/- is a whopping +127
3116 strikeouts (15th all time)
11-2 record in playoffs with a 2.23 ERA in 19 starts
3 World Series rings
20 game winner 3 times
The Bloody Sock!
An ungodly K/BB ratio.

It's a close call. The stats alone point to "no", but I keep coming back to two things -- first that he isn't tainted by steroids, and second that there are damn few pitchers over the last 15 years that someone would want starting Game 7 of a World Series over Schilling.

MIAdragon · 03-25-2009, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ

No way.

Schilling just doesn't have the stats, for most of his career he was a good but not great pitcher. I like the guy, but he's no HOF'er.

Really?

Wins--216 Tied for 80th all-time
ERA-3.46 Would be 11th among current active players if not retired
Win%-.596. Tied for 119th all-time with Herb Pennock, Ed Lopat and Warren Spahn
WHIP-1.1374 45th all-time
BB/9- 1.962 79th all-time
Strikeouts- 3116 15Th all-time
Adjusted ERA+- 127 Tied 43rd all-time

Schilling's post-season numbers are where he leaves his mark on the game.

11-2, 2.23 ERA, K/BB 120/25, WHIP 0.97

Schilling has the best K/BB ratio of all time among guys with a minimum of 1,000 IP / 100 decisions.

Only Blyleven has retired with more strikeouts and has not made into the HoF.

kcfanXIII · 03-25-2009, 04:35 PM

my two best schiling memories:

1. who could forget the bloody sock?
2. being a part of the team that knocked the yankees off in the 2001 world series.

based on these two memories, yes.

Jethopper · 03-25-2009, 04:48 PM

A pitcher with no sy youngs = A pitcher with no entry into the hall of fame (9 times out of 10).

wild1 · 03-25-2009, 04:51 PM

He doesn't really have the numbers, and I agree with the good but not great argument about his career as measured by his peers. But the 3 rings will get him a lot of mileage, and it's certainly debatable whether those teams would have won the rings without him.

If he gets in, it's a later ballot... in my opinion

MIAdragon · 03-25-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jethopper

A pitcher with no sy youngs = A pitcher with no entry into the hall of fame (9 times out of 10).

WTF is a "sy young"?

Nolan Ryan has zero Cy Young's.

MIAdragon · 03-25-2009, 04:54 PM

Strikeouts- 3116 15Th all-time

No doubt he gets in.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-25-2009, 04:56 PM

It's close, but no.

Good big game pitcher, elite attention whore, but not a HOF caliber arm.

wild1 · 03-25-2009, 04:56 PM

3000 strikeouts is his case, really, outside the world series

If this guy had played for Milwaukee and Texas, no way would this conversation be happening.

Katipan · 03-25-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wild1

He doesn't really have the numbers, and I agree with the good but not great argument about his career as measured by his peers. But the 3 rings will get him a lot of mileage, and it's certainly debatable whether those teams would have won the rings without him.

If he gets in, it's a later ballot... in my opinion

Arizona certainly rode it's two horses hard in 01. Randy never got us to a World Series with his Cy Youngs. Had no problem doing it with his Curt Schilling.

Miles · 03-25-2009, 05:07 PM

He is pretty close with his postseason performances, his first two seasons with ARI and first season with BOS, but his win/loss record will ultimately keep him out.

MIAdragon · 03-25-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miles

He is pretty close with his postseason performances, his first two seasons with ARI and first season with BOS, but his win/loss record will ultimately keep him out.

IMO win/loss stats is a piss poor measurement. Can the pitcher control what his team does in the field or at the dish?

Jethopper · 03-25-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIAdragon

WTF is a "sy young"?

Nolan Ryan has zero Cy Young's.

Hence the 9 out of 10.

MIAdragon · 03-25-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jethopper

Hence the 9 out of 10.

he finished second in Cy Young voting three times I dont see that holding him back

Miles · 03-25-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIAdragon

IMO win/loss stats is a piss poor measurement. Can the pitcher control what his team does in the field or at the dish?

Yeah I agree that its a shitty measurement but one that sportswriters seem to constantly bring up when evaluating a player.

kcxiv · 03-25-2009, 05:37 PM

If you count his post season play then absolutely. I lvoed watching hiim pitch in his prime, he was a bad ass. He definately deserves to be in there. If you needed someone to pitch in a big game, there wasnt many better then him for that kind of pressure.

While he only has a little over 200 wins, he was fairly consistant. I hope he makes it to Cooperstown, he deserves it.

View Poll Results: Should Curt Schilling be voted into the Baseball Hall of Fame?
Yes	27	57.45%
No	20	42.55%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

03-25-2009, 09:11 AM
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	Curt Schilling Retires -- is he a HOFer? So Curt Schilling officially retired earlier this week. Is he a Hall of Famer in your mind, or not? The stats: 216 wins (light for a HOFer, it's like 80th all-time) 146 losses .596 Winning Percentage No Cy Young Awards. Came in 2nd 3 times, and 4th once. 6 All Star Appearances 3.47 ERA ERA +/- is a whopping +127 3116 strikeouts (15th all time) 11-2 record in playoffs with a 2.23 ERA in 19 starts 3 World Series rings 20 game winner 3 times The Bloody Sock! An ungodly K/BB ratio. It's a close call. The stats alone point to "no", but I keep coming back to two things -- first that he isn't tainted by steroids, and second that there are damn few pitchers over the last 15 years that someone would want starting Game 7 of a World Series over Schilling.
Posts: 43,125

03-25-2009, 04:35 PM	#32
kcfanXIII Ride on! Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Galaxy far far away Casino cash: $10013172	my two best schiling memories: 1. who could forget the bloody sock? 2. being a part of the team that knocked the yankees off in the 2001 world series. based on these two memories, yes. __________________ Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed, overcomes the fear of death.
Posts: 5,470

03-25-2009, 04:48 PM	#33
Jethopper A Great Pick Join Date: Mar 2009 Casino cash: $9686008	A pitcher with no sy youngs = A pitcher with no entry into the hall of fame (9 times out of 10).
Posts: 1,761

03-25-2009, 04:51 PM	#34
wild1 MVP Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: 31040 Casino cash: $10004900	He doesn't really have the numbers, and I agree with the good but not great argument about his career as measured by his peers. But the 3 rings will get him a lot of mileage, and it's certainly debatable whether those teams would have won the rings without him. If he gets in, it's a later ballot... in my opinion
Posts: 6,935

03-25-2009, 04:54 PM	#36
MIAdragon Someone pass the antifreeze Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Miami (North Cuba) Casino cash: $-2252181	Strikeouts- 3116 15Th all-time No doubt he gets in.
Posts: 15,944

03-25-2009, 04:56 PM	#37
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7129572	It's close, but no. Good big game pitcher, elite attention whore, but not a HOF caliber arm. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,083

03-25-2009, 05:07 PM	#40
Miles MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Casino cash: $-1707600	He is pretty close with his postseason performances, his first two seasons with ARI and first season with BOS, but his win/loss record will ultimately keep him out.
Posts: 14,541

03-25-2009, 05:37 PM	#45
kcxiv In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central Valley, Cali Casino cash: $8697996	If you count his post season play then absolutely. I lvoed watching hiim pitch in his prime, he was a bad ass. He definately deserves to be in there. If you needed someone to pitch in a big game, there wasnt many better then him for that kind of pressure. While he only has a little over 200 wins, he was fairly consistant. I hope he makes it to Cooperstown, he deserves it.
Posts: 29,111