Chiefs sign Zach Thomas

[phisherman]

http://www.kansascity.com/news/break...y/1137526.html

The Chiefs have agreed to terms with linebacker Zach Thomas.

Thomas, 35, is a 13-year veteran who started 14 games for the Dallas Cowboys last season and has made 20.5 career sacks. He spent the first 12 years of his career with the Miami Dolphins.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Did someone really throw out Suggs as an example? The guy put up 20+ sacks in 1 year, please don't ever compare him to someone like Curry...

Suggs also hurt himself a bit going into that draft because he put on weight to show he could play DE and he ended up running really bad 40 times with the extra weight.

Suggs was mentioned as an example of a linebacker who should have been chosen top 5 rather than a wide receiver.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by booger

suggs contract hassle was about money. LB gets paid less than DE.

When Dan williams got tagged Carl argued he was basically a DT even though listed as a DE in the Hybrid scheme when DT played the Falcon.

Suggs was tagged as a linebacker and wanted DE money. His claim was that he played more DE than LB. In the end, he got a 'hybrid' designation of both.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Suggs was mentioned as an example of a linebacker who should have been chosen top 5 rather than a wide receiver.

Depends what WR's we're talking but as I said teams weren't overly sure what exactly he was which is why a 3-4 team was his best fit.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Depends what WR's we're talking but as I said teams weren't overly sure what exactly he was which is why a 3-4 team was his best fit.

Carlos Rogers

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Carlos Rogers

Who? You mean Charles Rogers?

It was obvious the Lions did that to take the hometown local Michigan State product that was why they favored him. They should have taken Andre Johnson he was the best prospect in that draft.

If Missouri or Kansas had a legit top 5 prospect in the draft and the Chiefs had a pick up there everyone would be clammoring for the local guy even if he wasn't as good of a prospect as the other guy.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Who? You mean Charles Rogers?

It was obvious the Lions did that to take the hometown local Michigan State product that was why they favored him. They should have taken Andre Johnson he was the best prospect in that draft.

If Missouri or Kansas had a legit top 5 prospect in the draft and the Chiefs had a pick up there everyone would be clammoring for the local guy even if he wasn't as good of a prospect as the other guy.

Yes, Charles. That's what I get for talking and posting at the same time. Thanks for the correction.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Suggs was drafted with the ability to play both positions. Furthermore, the Ravens have played both the 4-3 and the 3-4 during Suggs' tenure there. That is, in fact, one of the reasons they had the hassle with his franchise tag:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3394771

You sure seem cocky about your knowledge of football, even though you don't know a damn thing about the 3-4. Terrell Suggs played DE in college. He was drafted to play OLB in a 3-4 Defense. An OLB in a 3-4 Defense is not a traditional LB, like Mayo or Rivers or Hawk play. It is a pass rushing position with SOME outside LB responsibilities (i.e. pass coverage), etc.... You do NOT draft an OLB like Hawk or Rivers to play the 3-4 OLB position.
Take notes. 16 out of 16 3-4 OLBs in the NFL today played defensive end in college. Shawn Merriman, Demarcus Ware, Adalius Thomas, etc... etc... etc....

The only reason they call it a "hybrid" position is because your main responsibility is to be a pass rusher, but you play more traditional OLB roles (i.e. pass coverage) than a traditional DE.

You keep trying to act like Suggs and Merriman are LBs. They are not. If you suggest that they play anything close to the same position as AJ Hawk, then you have no business calling people out for knowing nothing about football. Watch game tape of Shawn Merriman and you tell me whether he is more of a pass rusher or more of a coverage guy.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You sure seem cocky about your knowledge of football, even though you don't know a damn thing about the 3-4. Terrell Suggs played DE in college. He was drafted to play OLB in a 3-4 Defense. An OLB in a 3-4 Defense is not a traditional LB, like Mayo or Rivers or Hawk play. It is a pass rushing position with SOME outside LB responsibilities (i.e. pass coverage), etc.... You do NOT draft an OLB like Hawk or Rivers to play the 3-4 OLB position.
Take notes. 16 out of 16 3-4 OLBs in the NFL today played defensive end in college. Shawn Merriman, Demarcus Ware, Adalius Thomas, etc... etc... etc....

The only reason they call it a "hybrid" position is because your main responsibility is to be a pass rusher, but you play more traditional OLB roles (i.e. pass coverage) than a traditional DE.

You keep trying to act like Suggs and Merriman are LBs. They are not. If you suggest that they play anything close to the same position as AJ Hawk, then you have no business calling people out for knowing nothing about football. Watch game tape of Shawn Merriman and you tell me whether he is more of a pass rusher or more of a coverage guy.

This is just surreal. Normally, you two would see eye to eye on just about everything. This has got to be a first.

[Mecca]

I'll say it again, I dare anyone to point to me a 3-4 OLB that played traditional LB and never played end.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You sure seem cocky about your knowledge of football, even though you don't know a damn thing about the 3-4. Terrell Suggs played DE in college. He was drafted to play OLB in a 3-4 Defense. An OLB in a 3-4 Defense is not a traditional LB, like Mayo or Rivers or Hawk play. It is a pass rushing position with SOME outside LB responsibilities (i.e. pass coverage), etc.... You do NOT draft an OLB like Hawk or Rivers to play the 3-4 OLB position.
Take notes. 16 out of 16 3-4 OLBs in the NFL today played defensive end in college. Shawn Merriman, Demarcus Ware, Adalius Thomas, etc... etc... etc....

Look, either start reading my posts or don't respond to them. How bloody difficult is it for you to grasp English?

Suggs was a DE in college, but he was drafted with the idea of him being able to play either DE or LB. That is, in fact, precisely what he does in Baltimore. He would have been a smarter pick than Rogers, who was a WR (traditionally high 'positional value').

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The only reason they call it a "hybrid" position is because your main responsibility is to be a pass rusher, but you play more traditional OLB roles (i.e. pass coverage) than a traditional DE.

No, they called it a 'hybrid' (my word), because he took a boatload of snaps as both a DE and a LB. The Ravens wanted him franchised as a LB, Suggs wanted DE money. After a grievance, a new designation was determined.

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You keep trying to act like Suggs and Merriman are LBs. They are not. If you suggest that they play anything close to the same position as AJ Hawk, then you have no business calling people out for knowing nothing about football. Watch game tape of Shawn Merriman and you tell me whether he is more of a pass rusher or more of a coverage guy.

Suggs plays DE and LB. You can make all the other silly claims and comparisons you wish. Had you bothered to actually read my posts, you'd have noted that the comparison of Hawk and Suggs being made was that they are both linebackers. Given that Hawk has been playing LB in a 4-3 scheme, I'm frankly not even sure what the hell you think was being implied. Then again, you'd take Forte over Mayo, so I'm not even sure why I'm bothering to respond to your posts at all at this point. Talk about poor positional valuation.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Why do you people keep trying to move the goalposts? Taking the "normal" value position was a mistake. Taking either of the top LBs taken would have been the smarter play. It's why this nonsense about "positional value" is stupid in general, and more stupid than usual when there are no top prospects separating themselves from the pack.

I'm not moving the goalposts. I'm adding supporting evidence to the argument.

I know it must suck to realize that I'm right - Curry isn't worth the #3 overall pick.

FYI -Terrell Suggs played DEFENSIVE END in college.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Suggs was mentioned as an example of a linebacker who should have been chosen top 5 rather than a wide receiver.

Terrell Suggs is a 3-4 OLB and played DE in college. He's not AT ALL an example of what's being talked about.

[htismaqe]

I wonder if he even realizes how stupid of a comparison it is between Curry and Terrell Suggs? Are we going to compare him to Dwight Freeney next?

I mean, after all Curry isn't a LB, he's an undersized DE, right?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Suggs was a DE in college, but he was drafted with the idea of him being able to play either DE or LB. That is, in fact, precisely what he does in Baltimore. He would have been a smarter pick than Rogers, who was a WR (traditionally high 'positional value').

Then you are an idiot.

The Lions run a 4-3 defense. 4-3 Defenses use 230-240 pound OLBs who are fast and can play sideline-to-sideline. They have to have pure linebacker instincts and they have to be versatile enough to cover tight ends. They are typically not as good at shedding blocks and they blitz only as an element of surprise. A 3-4 OLB/DE (a "hybrid") is a pass rusher who plays coverage moreso as an element of surprise. They are 260+-pound former DEs whose PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY is to rush the passer and know pass rushing technique, and every once in a while they take on some LB responsibility. If Suggs played in a 4-3 like Detroit, he would either be an undersized third-down pass rusher, or he would be an overweight, slow-as-shit OLB. He would have been a better pick than Rogers, but he would have been a huge bust in Detroit. Just the same, if AJ Hawk played 3-4 OLB, he would be an extremely undersized DE/LB who consistently got destroyed in the trenches and probably could generate 3 or 4 sacks at the most.

No, they called it a 'hybrid' (my word), because he took a boatload of snaps as both a DE and a LB. The Ravens wanted him franchised as a LB, Suggs wanted DE money. After a grievance, a new designation was determined.

You obviously have no understanding of a 3-4 defense. A "hybrid" is the same exact position Merriman, Ware, Adalius Thomas, Vernon Gholston, Lamar Woodley, Mike Vrabel,

What do they all have in common? Oh yeah, they all played DE in college. So stop acting like these are OLBs like AJ Hawk or Derrick Johnson. Are you really going to tell me that Derrick Johnson could play the role Merriman plays and get 10+ sacks a year? And are you really going to tell me that Merriman could play DJ's role and cover tight ends on a huge chunk of the snaps? A "hybrid" DE only means they are Defensive Ends who take on some LB responsibility. You even said so yourself, given that Suggs argued he took more snaps as a DE than as a LB. That is completely true.

Suggs plays DE and LB. You can make all the other silly claims and comparisons you wish. Had you bothered to actually read my posts, you'd have noted that the comparison of Hawk and Suggs being made was that they are both linebackers. Given that Hawk has been playing LB in a 4-3 scheme, I'm frankly not even sure what the hell you think was being implied. Then again, you'd take Forte over Mayo, so I'm not even sure why I'm bothering to respond to your posts at all at this point. Talk about poor positional valuation.

Hawk is a 4-3 OLB
Suggs is a 3-4 DE/OLB

If you really want to argue they're the same, then God help you.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I'm not moving the goalposts. I'm adding supporting evidence to the argument.

I know it must suck to realize that I'm right - Curry isn't worth the #3 overall pick.

FYI -Terrell Suggs played DEFENSIVE END in college.

Suggs, and Hawk, are examples of players who were drafted to play linebacker. Suggs was drafted to play LB and/or DE. Hawk WAS drafted in the top 5 and the Lions would certainly like to have drafted Suggs rather than Rogers.

WTF is so difficult about this for you people to grasp? You're all so damned caught up in the details that don't mean a damned thing that you can't see the blatantly obvious.