Can't stop an offense? Make it illegal!

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Sully

By using a loophole.

And what loophole would that be?

[Sully]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

And what loophole would that be?

No less a loophole than allowed the A11.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Sully

No less a loophole than allowed the A11.

That's incorrect. A-11's formation is(I should say was) strictly intended for scrimmage kick formations. It does not satisfy the requirements for a legal offensive formation in two ways. The A-11 does not have 5 down offensive linemen, as required for a legal offensive formation. It also neglects the normal jersey numbering requirements for linemen in legal offensive formations.

The swinging gate on the other hand, does indeed have the required number of ineligible down offensive linemen, with the correct jersey numbering. They are simply in a different position, but they're still linemen on the line of scrimmage who are not eligible receivers. There is absolutely no loophole necessary to run it. It's simply a legal offensive formation with it's down linemen in a different position than normal. There are no extra eligible receivers as in the case of A-11.

This shouldn't be difficult.

[Brock]

Meh, whatever. It's over.

[Sully]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

That's incorrect. A-11's formation is(I should say was) strictly intended for scrimmage kick formations. It does not satisfy the requirements for a legal offensive formation in two ways. The A-11 does not have 5 down offensive linemen, as required for a legal offensive formation. It also neglects the normal jersey numbering requirements for linemen in legal offensive formations.

The swinging gate on the other hand, does indeed have the required number of ineligible down offensive linemen, with the correct jersey numbering. They are simply in a different position, but they're still linemen on the line of scrimmage who are not eligible receivers. There is absolutely no loophole necessary to run it. It's simply a legal offensive formation with it's down linemen in a different position than normal. There are no extra eligible receivers as in the case of A-11.

This shouldn't be difficult.

there are no "extra" eligible recievers in the A11. You just can't immediately tell who is eligible.
You also can't make hard and fast rules about what you can and can't do with "kicking formations" without doing away with fake punts and field goals.
So far, the only real argument I see against this is "tradition." if that's really the argument, them the argument must logically be against the swinging gate, as well. Hell, tradition says players used to have no such thing as eligible and ineligible nbers, so it's weak to begin with.

If leagues don't like it, fine. But let's not pretend there was anything illegal or non-traditional about it.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Sully

there are no "extra" eligible recievers in the A11. You just can't immediately tell who is eligible.
You also can't make hard and fast rules about what you can and can't do with "kicking formations" without doing away with fake punts and field goals.
So far, the only real argument I see against this is "tradition." if that's really the argument, them the argument must logically be against the swinging gate, as well. Hell, tradition says players used to have no such thing as eligible and ineligible nbers, so it's weak to begin with.

If leagues don't like it, fine. But let's not pretend there was anything illegal or non-traditional about it.

The fact that you can't immediately tell who's eligible out of all 11 players is part of the reason why it isn't legal. Anyone on the field can be an eligible receiver coming to the line of scrimmage because they're breaking the jersey numbering rule. That in itself gives a huge advantage over legal offensive formations. That's the point. Legal formations don't allow you to do that.

And fake punts and kicks are still perfectly safe due to the differences in jersey numbering and eligibility on obvious kicking/punting downs. That's how they closed the loophole. They revised the rules to provide distinction as to what downs would allow which formations.

"The definition of a scrimmage-kick formation was clarified to differentiate formations that have been used traditionally for attempting a field goal or kick try from those used for a punt," Colgate said. "In addition, the circumstances under which the numbering exception can be utilized have been changed to clarify what can be done on first, second, third and fourth downs."

Every level of football has said that it's illegal. That's the purpose of the ban. The National Federation of State High School Associations, the NCAA, and the NFL now all have rules prohibiting it.

[Sully]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

The fact that you can't immediately tell who's eligible out of all 11 players is part of the reason why it isn't legal. Anyone on the field can be an eligible receiver coming to the line of scrimmage because they're breaking the jersey numbering rule. That in itself gives a huge advantage over legal offensive formations. That's the point. Legal formations don't allow you to do that.

And fake punts and kicks are still perfectly safe due to the differences in jersey numbering and eligibility on obvious kicking/punting downs. That's how they closed the loophole. They revised the rules to provide distinction as to what downs would allow which formations.



Every level of football has said that it's illegal. That's the purpose of the ban. The National Federation of State High School Associations, the NCAA, and the NFL now all have rules prohibiting it.

That sounds ridiculous, to me. What if I want to punt on 1st down? (I know a local coach who makes the playoffs yearly who has done so)? What if it's late in the game and I want to try a FG not on 4th down?

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Sully

That sounds ridiculous, to me. What if I want to punt on 1st down? (I know a local coach who makes the playoffs yearly who has done so)? What if it's late in the game and I want to try a FG not on 4th down?

You're free to punt on first down if you'd like, or kick a FG on a down other than 4th. You just can't have 11 guys wearing receiver numbers on the field when you do so.

[The_Doctor10]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

The fact that you can't immediately tell who's eligible out of all 11 players is part of the reason why it isn't legal. Anyone on the field can be an eligible receiver coming to the line of scrimmage because they're breaking the jersey numbering rule. That in itself gives a huge advantage over legal offensive formations. That's the point. Legal formations don't allow you to do that.

And fake punts and kicks are still perfectly safe due to the differences in jersey numbering and eligibility on obvious kicking/punting downs. That's how they closed the loophole. They revised the rules to provide distinction as to what downs would allow which formations.



Every level of football has said that it's illegal. That's the purpose of the ban. The National Federation of State High School Associations, the NCAA, and the NFL now all have rules prohibiting it.

How about we just do away with the defenses showing blitz and then dropping into coverage, eh? That seems to de awfully deceptive. If the QB thinks the entire secondary is coming for his head, he may jump the gun and throw a poor pass. And the corner who looked like he was gonna blitz just stands there, picks it off, and waltzes into the endzone.

Here's a thought: since the players in the NFL have gradually evolved to be much bigger and much faster than previous generations, why not maybe make the field bigger? Then you can have all the traditional offense you want with a little more room to move around.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Unleash_the_Phury

How about we just do away with the defenses showing blitz and then dropping into coverage, eh? That seems to de awfully deceptive. If the QB thinks the entire secondary is coming for his head, he may jump the gun and throw a poor pass. And the corner who looked like he was gonna blitz just stands there, picks it off, and waltzes into the endzone.

Here's a thought: since the players in the NFL have gradually evolved to be much bigger and much faster than previous generations, why not maybe make the field bigger? Then you can have all the traditional offense you want with a little more room to move around.

There's a HUGE difference between pre-snap deception and cheating by doctoring jersey numbers.

JFC.