Clark Judge: Rating smartest, boldest, scariest offseason moves

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by doomy3

no, not necessarily. See, I realize that this is a team game and a QB can be great and never win a Super Bowl. This argument that the only QBs who are worth a shit won a Super Bowl is so far overblown on this board, IMO.

With the exception of Tom Brady & Brad Johnson, high first round QB's (if not #1 overall) have won the Super Bowl this decade.

Regardless of what you think, the NFL has become such a level playing field that for the most part (exception being the 2000 Ravens and 2002 Bucs), stellar play at the QB position is what separates good teams from Super Bowl teams.

If you don't have a high first round draft pick, your chance of winning the Super Bowl in today's NFL is greatly diminished.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

With the exception of Tom Brady & Brad Johnson, high first round QB's (if not #1 overall) have won the Super Bowl this decade.

Regardless of what you think, the NFL has become such a level playing field that for the most part (exception being the 2000 Ravens and 2002 Bucs), stellar play at the QB position is what separates good teams from Super Bowl teams.

If you don't have a high first round draft pick, your chance of winning the Super Bowl in today's NFL is greatly diminished.

Of the last 10 Super Bowls, 5 were won by quarterbacks not drafted in the first round.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Of the last 10 Super Bowls, 5 were won by quarterbacks not drafted in the first round.

Gee, thanks.

Tom Brady accounts for 3, Brad Johnson for 1 and Kurt Warner another.

If you think you can find HOF players like Warner & Brady anywhere, you're sadly mistaken.

And in retrospect, they'd both be taken #1 overall.

Brad Johnson? Not so much.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Gee, thanks.

Tom Brady accounts for 3, Brad Johnson for 1 and Kurt Warner another.

If you think you can find HOF players like Warner & Brady anywhere, you're sadly mistaken.

And in retrospect, they'd both be taken #1 overall.

Brad Johnson? Not so much.

So what? Dilfer wouldn't be a top 10 type of pick either.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

So what? Dilfer wouldn't be a top 10 pick either.

Dilfer won a Super Bowl.

He lived up to his draft spot.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Dilfer won a Super Bowl.

He lived up to his draft spot.

That may be the most ridiculous logic ever attempted.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

That may be the most ridiculous logic ever attempted.

Go away.

You're ruining the board.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

So what? Dilfer wouldn't be a top 10 pick either.

The numbers are definitely in the favor of 1st round QBs. When Dilfer & Johnson won, it was because their teams were built a different way -- they had dominant defenses.

The dominant defense approach can definitely work, but its also more difficult to achieve. The numbers bear out that building your team around a real franchise-type QB leads to championship success more often than does building your team around a dominant defense.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

The numbers are definitely in the favor of 1st round QBs. When Dilfer & Johnson won, it was because their teams were built a different way -- they had dominant defenses.

The dominant defense approach can definitely work, but its also more difficult to achieve. The numbers bear out that building your team around a real franchise-type QB leads to championship success more often than does building your team around a dominant defense.

But furthermore, the Ravens sucked with Banks under center.

I believe that without a doubt, the Ravens could have repeated had Billick not gone all crazy and released Dilfer in favor of Grbac.

Like it or not, there IS something to be said for a smart game manager for in certain situations.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

The numbers are definitely in the favor of 1st round QBs. When Dilfer & Johnson won, it was because their teams were built a different way -- they had dominant defenses.

The dominant defense approach can definitely work, but its also more difficult to achieve. The numbers bear out that building your team around a real franchise-type QB leads to championship success more often than does building your team around a dominant defense.

That's only true if you massage the "franchise-type" QB definition. Neither Eli nor Dilfer is in that mold, and Big Ben is more game manager than "franchise-type" in my opinion, although he's at least arguable. The reality is that you are, of course, right. You're more likely to get lucky at any position if you draft it higher. That's just common sense, since you have a larger pool to choose from. However, the reality is that of the 3 QBs closest to the "chuck it all around" type of franchise QBs to win Super Bowls in the past 10 years, Only Peyton was a first round pick. Neither Brady nor Warner were.

Your "numbers bear out" argument doesn't actually hold up in recent years, though.

[L.A. Chieffan]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

That's only true if you massage the "franchise-type" QB definition. Neither Eli nor Dilfer is in that mold, and Big Ben is more game manager than "franchise-type" in my opinion, although he's at least arguable. The reality is that you are, of course, right. You're more likely to get lucky at any position if you draft it higher. That's just common sense, since you have a larger pool to choose from. However, the reality is that of the 3 QBs closest to the "chuck it all around" type of franchise QBs to win Super Bowls in the past 10 years, Only Peyton was a first round pick. Neither Brady nor Warner were.

Your "numbers bear out" argument doesn't actually hold up in recent years, though.

So even though Eli and Ben we're drafted in the first round they're not really first round QBs? You're all over the place man

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

That's only true if you massage the "franchise-type" QB definition. Neither Eli nor Dilfer is in that mold, and Big Ben is more game manager than "franchise-type" in my opinion, although he's at least arguable. The reality is that you are, of course, right. You're more likely to get lucky at any position if you draft it higher. That's just common sense, since you have a larger pool to choose from. However, the reality is that of the 3 QBs closest to the "chuck it all around" type of franchise QBs to win Super Bowls in the past 10 years, Only Peyton was a first round pick. Neither Brady nor Warner were.

Your "numbers bear out" argument doesn't actually hold up in recent years, though.

Why? Because of Brady and Warner? You can't plan on lucking into a Hall of Fame QB.

A franchise QB doesn't have to be a "chuck it all around" player. Big Ben is a franchise calibur QB -- they Steelers don't win without that last TD on a pass so pornographically perfect that it dumbfounded me.

[the Talking Can]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

and Big Ben is more game manager than "franchise-type" in my opinion

can't believe people still peddle this reeruned crap on the planet...

[L.A. Chieffan]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Of the last 10 Super Bowls, 5 were won by quarterbacks not drafted in the first round.

fo real yo, kurt warner was an arena league quarterback! we gotta get us one of those

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

With the exception of Tom Brady & Brad Johnson, high first round QB's (if not #1 overall) have won the Super Bowl this decade.

Regardless of what you think, the NFL has become such a level playing field that for the most part (exception being the 2000 Ravens and 2002 Bucs), stellar play at the QB position is what separates good teams from Super Bowl teams.

If you don't have a high first round draft pick, your chance of winning the Super Bowl in today's NFL is greatly diminished.

And the NFL becomes more of a passing league with each year, too.