According to NFLN KC has had 3 of the top

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Does Dick share the blame? Of course he does. But like I said, he falls low on the list in the blame for personnel decisions. Vermeil may like a player and recommend him. It is the staff's job to sift through hours of film, interviews and workout evaluations to "fact check." It is widely known that Lynn Stiles was a lazy SOB when it came to that due diligence. His idea of scouting was to call a few buddies and ask their advice, and then to rely on some film instead of evaluating players live. Vermeil's job was to recommend. The personnel staff, particularly Stiles', job was to confirm they made the right decision.

But it goes beyond that. Is Vermeil trained to grill interviewees to see if they're soft? Probably not. Is he as well-versed in how workout information can dictate potential? Probably not. Does Vermeil have time during the season to watch film of these players? Probably not. In light of the million things he has to do, is he looking at in-depth tape on all these guys? Probably not. During draft season, amid OTAs, planning for the next season, evaluating the current roster, meetings with players and coaches, etc... does Vermeil have a full work day to commit to scouting evaluations? No.

Most of those roles involve dedicated specialists and it is their 40+ hour a week job for a full year to specialize well. Scouting for draft picks is not Vermeil's full-time job. I'm sorry, but when it comes to draft picks, I blame the guys who are supposed to be specializing in drafting, not the head coach who slips into the role for a few hours out of the year. Vermeil does some scouting, but it's not his main job. In fact, it's very low on his list of a million things that he is asked to do. Lynn Stiles deserves the vast majority of the blame for poor personnel decisions. Personnel decisions was his full-time job description.

You can blame Carl for allowing Dick (and ****her andf Marty before him) to have as much influence in the draft as he did.

But the fact remains, he did have a huge say in who was picked, and no matter how you spin it, he is every bit as responsible for the sorry ass drafts as Carl.

He wanted those guys, he got them.

And if Lynn Stiles was as lazy as you say he is, how is it that the later picks were better overall, when Dick took himself out of the equation?

You are making excuses for him, and the fact is he sucked and there are no ****ing excuses.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by milkman

You can blame Carl for allowing Dick (and ****her andf Marty before him) to have as much influence in the draft as he did.

But the fact remains, he did have a huge say in who was picked, and no matter how you spin it, he is every bit as responsible for the sorry ass drafts as Carl.

He wanted those guys, he got them.

And if Lynn Stiles was as lazy as you say he is, how is it that the later picks were better overall, when Dick took himself out of the equation?

You are making excuses for him, and the fact is he sucked and there are no ****ing excuses.

Whether you hate Whitlock or not, read this article:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/printthread.php?t=105229
I wish I could also track down an ESPN Insider article years ago that ripped on Stiles big time and called him one of the worst personnel guys in the game. They said he did all of his evaluations through recommendations from college coaches within his network and that he did very limited actual scouting. Case-in-point, this is the same dumb shit who had no idea who Ben Roethlisberger was going into the draft. Can you believe that? How do you not know about a QB as highly rated as Big Ben?

You're basically suggesting that Vermeil deserves a lot of blame for drafting errors, but I will continue to ask why a GM would give a coach that kind of power and why the VP Personnel was so incompetent that he didn't know these guys were going to be failures? And then I'll ask why a Personnel guy, whose main job, by the way, is to make good draft picks and good free agency moves, wasn't fired after a long string of incompetence. It's like this. If you're building a home and your electrician is so incompetent that your carpenter ends up doing all the electrical work, whose fault is it when your electric is all screwed up? I would blame the electrician first for being a dumb shit at what he's supposed to be good at. And I'd blame the contractor who hired the guy in the first place. Why are you going to blame a guy who was doing something that's outside his job description?

Vermeil's job isn't to scout, collect data, and draft players. His job is to provide input so that the Personnel guy, who is supposed to specialize in personnel decisions, can make more informed decisions. If Vermeil had too much power, SHAME on Carl Peterson for giving it to him. In a good organization, a coach wouldn't have that much input for one, and the VP Personnel would have enough information to tell the head coach he was wrong. None of that happened. And so, a coach who was supposed to make INPUT ended up being the guy that made DECISIONS. Does Vermeil deserve some blame? Of course. But in a good organization, he would have been vetoed.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Whether you hate Whitlock or not, read this article:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/printthread.php?t=105229
I wish I could also track down an ESPN Insider article years ago that ripped on Stiles big time and called him one of the worst personnel guys in the game. They said he did all of his evaluations through recommendations from college coaches within his network and that he did very limited actual scouting. Case-in-point, this is the same dumb shit who had no idea who Ben Roethlisberger was going into the draft. Can you believe that? How do you not know about a QB as highly rated as Big Ben?

You're basically suggesting that Vermeil deserves a lot of blame for drafting errors, but I will continue to ask why a GM would give a coach that kind of power and why the VP Personnel was so incompetent that he didn't know these guys were going to be failures? And then I'll ask why a Personnel guy, whose main job, by the way, is to make good draft picks and good free agency moves, wasn't fired after a long string of incompetence. It's like this. If you're building a home and your electrician is so incompetent that your carpenter ends up doing all the electrical work, whose fault is it when your electric is all screwed up? I would blame the electrician first for being a dumb shit at what he's supposed to be good at. And I'd blame the contractor who hired the guy in the first place. Why are you going to blame a guy who was doing something that's outside his job description?

Vermeil's job isn't to scout, collect data, and draft players. His job is to provide input so that the Personnel guy, who is supposed to specialize in personnel decisions, can make more informed decisions. If Vermeil had too much power, SHAME on Carl Peterson for giving it to him. In a good organization, a coach wouldn't have that much input for one, and the VP Personnel would have enough information to tell the head coach he was wrong. None of that happened. And so, a coach who was supposed to make INPUT ended up being the guy that made DECISIONS. Does Vermeil deserve some blame? Of course. But in a good organization, he would have been vetoed.

Again, you are making excuses for Dick's poor talent evaluation.
Whether he should have been given that much voice is not the issue.

He made decisions that he was allowed to make, and he made poor ones.

If a carpenter does the electrical work on the house because the electrician is too lazy to do it. I'm going to fire the electrician, the contractor for hiring the electrician, and I'm going to fire the carpenter for being a dumbass.